Insurance Claim Dilemma

[luminorex]

Hi ALL,

I need your advice on an insurance/ legal issue.

It happened nearly two month ago. girlfriend was by herself driving my car (Toyota Soarer), braked too late in the rain rammed into the back of a bmw infront, bmw in turn hit the car infront of his too.

The bmw and the car infront of it were stationary at the time, so girlfriend was at fault.

The problem was that this happened on 29th August, and I had just bought the car a few days before the accident so it only had CTP but no third party property insurance( as i was still shopping around for quotes on third party property)at the time, therefore I was not covered.

Damage to my soarer was only a dented number plate, a slightly dented and scratched paint patch (the size of a hand) on the lefthand side of front bumper and a broken lefthand side indicator lense.

The BMW 318 (97 model with 120kkm) had both front and rear bumper damaged but nothing fell of the car, I was told.

The car infront of beamer (not sure of make) had some minor scratches on the rear bumper so owner just told them not to worry about it.

Girlfriend told the bmw driver that our car wasnt insured, the guy said that he understand.

No contacts from anyone regarding this accident for two month. The shock came yesterday, a letter from the recovery agent of nrma insurance with a bill of $12k! Apparently he had everything replaced from front and rear bumpers to the air/con system. Appears to me that they are framing me for the car’s “mid-life refreshment”!

What are my legal options in this situation? If there is any.

Thanks in advance. Much appreciated.

Steve

Edited November 30, 2006 by luminorex

[sewid]

Get a solicitor. Tell him the exact same story.

But yeah be prepared to bend over either way.

[mad082]

yeah as sewid said, get legal advice.

but moral of the story is go shopping for insurance before you buy the car. i had the insurance policy activated from lunchtime of the day i was going to look at the car (didn't go look till after lunch) since the insurance company wasn't open that day. and if i didn't end up buying it i only had to ring up and say i didn't get it.

[LightAssassin]

Yep talk to the legal boys.

In this case you shouldn't be have to pay for the front end damage as the BMW is responsible for damaging the car infront. People look at me funny when in the wet I sit about a whole car distance behind the car infront of me while stopped. But I'd rather not have the issue of the dance and prance to cop hitting the guy infront of me after being hit.

Simply put, the front damage and damage to the other car is his fault. The rear damage is your fault.

Find a decent solicitor and he'll take it down.... you're still looking at a decent penny for the rear repairs, but stuff the aircon etc...

Good luck! And next time... get your insurance first =\

[kralster]

Yeah you should already of had quotes before you get the car.

Then as soon as it arrives ring up the insurer you decided to go with and get them to put a cover note on the car so it's insured from the get go.

When my 34 arrived i wanted to jump in and start driving.

But dad said no go inside ring the insurance company first then we can go for a drive.

[Blitz]

Hi ALL,

I need your advice on an insurance/ legal issue.

It happened nearly two month ago. girlfriend was by herself driving my car (Toyota Soarer), braked too late in the rain rammed into the back of a bmw infront, bmw in turn hit the car infront of his too.

The bmw and the car infront of it were stationary at the time, so it seemed my girlfriend was at fault.

The problem was that this happened on 29th August, and I had just bought the car a few days before the accident so it only had CTP but no third party property insurance( as i was still shopping around for quotes on third party property)at the time, therefore I was not covered.

Damage to my soarer was only a dented number plate, a slightly dented and scratched paint patch (the size of a hand) on the lefthand side of front bumper and a broken lefthand side indicator lense.

The BMW 318 (97 model with 120kkm) had both front and rear bumper damaged but nothing fell of the car, I was told.

The car infront of beamer (not sure of make) had some minor scratches on the rear bumper so owner just told them not to worry about it.

Girlfriend told the bmw driver that our car wasnt insured, the guy said that he understand.

No contacts from anyone regarding this accident for two month. The shock came yesterday, a letter from the recovery agent of nrma insurance with a bill of $12k! Apparently he had everything replaced from front and rear bumpers to the air/con system. Appears to me that they are framing me for the car’s “mid-life refreshment”!

What are my legal options in this situation? If there is any.

Thanks in advance. Much appreciated.

Steve

Sadly, its situations like this where you need your insurer to be there to back you up.

Any time you have an accident, report it to the police as there are too many people out there that will try and screw for all your worth even if you only scratch their car.

[sewid]

Another word of advice that I use EVERY time I buy a car.

Before I leave the lot I call NRMA / Justcar insurance and say "I want to insure this car, here are all my details, and please send me the bill for the costs". Even if you have NO intention of using that insurance company they have now covered you.

The cover starts as soon as they give you a policy number and they are legally obliged to pay out in the event of any claim even if you haven't paid the premium yet. This gives you around 2 weeks to "shop around" for insurance but you are still covered for anything in the mean time.

Last time I bought a mazda run around car I rang up NRMA said, please insure me, here are my details. They said "sure that'll be $500". I said ok fine please send me the bill, they did so. 2 days later i took out a policy with AAMI for $300 and paid them instead. NRMA covered me for the 2 days it took me to shop around for AAMI.

They are very careful to tell you that the policy begins immediately and they even give you a policy number on the spot. Write it down.

[Beer Baron]

another tip. if you are unfortunate enough to have an accident in which you are uninsured, but the person you hit is insured you need to do everything you can to disuade them from going to their insurer. you will be much better off if you can just negotiate with them 1 to 1. and get some quotes for the damage you think you should pay for and negotiate a cash amount with them. As soon as their insurer got involved you were screwed. You have zero chance of negotiating with them, and since they have already done the work it's going to be hard to put right.

[SKY031]

In this case you shouldn't be have to pay for the front end damage as the BMW is responsible for damaging the car infront.

This may vary from state to state, but in Vic , if the BMW was shunted into the vehicle in front, repsonsibility falls on the shoulders of the person who did the shunting, not the innocent person who got stuck in the middle because someone wasn't driving to suit the conditions.

...but certainly get legal advice.

It's understandable that panels needed repairing, but air con?

Sounds a bit dodgy.

[gts-4 dreamer]

same in nsw actually,

the common paraphrase is if you couldnt stop in time to avoid hitting the rear of a vehicle then its your fualt for not leaving enough space, and in a 3 car job where teh rear smashs 1 car into another fair enough.... but the 5 car the misses was in... whos the blame ? i doubt the car @ the back was moving fast enough to push 3-4 vehicles into each other with enough force to smack into each other and crush respective front ends !

misses case she managed to barely stop 50-100mm from car infront in a 5 car, she was the 4th car, 5th car was an un-insured single mother in her excell with baby strapped into rear. accident cuased by some fool in a minivan locking up the brakes on the great western highway to perform illegal u-turn. shite thing is, every single person saw the bastard, yet no one could get his plates etc. aparently minor ding touch in rear on his euro - vw front end looking pannel van, as described by misses, lead car to lock up had miinor dent front and rear 3/4 car pushed in like crushed coke can.

excell drive managed to hit my daily hard enough to do the same and crush the front end in enough to ruin front end, pushed radiator through clutch fan etc an bend engine mounts.

she ended up paying THE LOT... 500 series beemer = 3rd car... OUCH @@!

we only charged her a radiator, fan, boot lid and some cross members found @ local reka's, dont know what she copped for the rest

[sl33ek]

12K, holy shit that BMW driver really took you for a ride on that one.

I cant believe he didnt let you know how much it was going to cost before he went ahead so that should be a major bone to pick with him on that one.

[LBR33]

I think its best to talk to your GF about the 12k bill as she was driving at the time so it wouldnt be your fault

[heller44]

This may vary from state to state, but in Vic , if the BMW was shunted into the vehicle in front, repsonsibility falls on the shoulders of the person who did the shunting, not the innocent person who got stuck in the middle because someone wasn't driving to suit the conditions.

...but certainly get legal advice.

It's understandable that panels needed repairing, but air con?

Sounds a bit dodgy.

Same in W.A. Shunter cops the lot.

Edited November 30, 2006 by heller44

[Pauly33GTS-t]

I think its best to talk to your GF about the 12k bill as she was driving at the time so it wouldnt be your fault

I'm sorry but that call was so stupid that it was GOLD, best advice was given 2nd post, and the other interesting advice was the "BMW is fault for front damage"... i can see how that is correct. he didnt have hand brake up high enough.

[wrxhoon]

and the other interesting advice was the "BMW is fault for front damage"... i can see how that is correct. he didnt have hand brake up high enough.

What a lot of bulldust, you are at fault (or your G/F in this case) because it was you that caused the BM hit the other car. The Bm didn't do anything wrong, if it was a hard hit and say the car in front of the Beemer hit another car and it another and so on you are responsible for all of them .

Seek some legal advice by all means but i can tell you, NRMA will get their $12 big ones from you + all legal costs if you deside not to pay or to fight it in court .

[Amaru]

What a lot of bulldust, you are at fault (or your G/F in this case) because it was you that caused the BM hit the other car. The Bm didn't do anything wrong, if it was a hard hit and say the car in front of the Beemer hit another car and it another and so on you are responsible for all of them .

Seek some legal advice by all means but i can tell you, NRMA will get their $12 big ones from you + all legal costs if you deside not to pay or to fight it in court .

This post is right on the money. If you rear end someone and in turn they hit someone, you are liable for ALL the damage because you caused the accident (why should the innocent person stuck in the middle have to pay for their front end damage, when it was caused by the car that hit them in the rear?)

And as for the post that you just have to pay the cost for replacement parts, thats incorrect as well. You will be liable for the costs of repairing the car to the condition it was in before the accident. How would you like it if you were rear ended by someone uninsured and they just dumped a load of parts on your doorstep and expected you to pay for the labour yourself? It doesnt work that way.

I would get legal advice, but I think its mainly going to be setting up some sort of payment plan if you dont have the $12k up front.

Im not having a go at you or your gf, the situation is understandable (not that I agree with it) and I know alot of people who drive the car uninsured when they first pick it up. Just treat this as one of lifes lessons, to get the car insured before you drive it anywhere. All it takes is 10 minutes on the phone, and you dont even have to pay a cent until they send the bill.

EDIT: Just to add, the 318's run a REALLY tight front end, so the labour costs would be expensive and its highly likely that a small shunt like this could damage the air conditioning system (as alot of it sits at the front of the car in front of the radiator).

Edited November 30, 2006 by Amaru

[MANWHOR3]

Yep talk to the legal boys.

In this case you shouldn't be have to pay for the front end damage as the BMW is responsible for damaging the car infront. People look at me funny when in the wet I sit about a whole car distance behind the car infront of me while stopped. But I'd rather not have the issue of the dance and prance to cop hitting the guy infront of me after being hit.

Simply put, the front damage and damage to the other car is his fault. The rear damage is your fault.

Find a decent solicitor and he'll take it down.... you're still looking at a decent penny for the rear repairs, but stuff the aircon etc...

Good luck! And next time... get your insurance first =\

The BMW is not responsible for hitting the car in front! that only happens if the cars are moving, then it's his fault for not keeping enough gap.

If the cars are stationary, nothing is happening. Your gf goes boom. she caused the damage to both.

Although 12k does seem a bit much, it'd be difficult to not pay. See, the thing is, your gf did the damage. The guy got it fixed. I mean, the panel shop probably went oo, a bmw, lets reem the insurance company so they charged 12k.

The difficulty is this. You are just a normal person. NRMA is a massive company. They'd be willing to fight you to the death for it. Can you afford legal advise? a good lawyer at 250+ an hour? Even if you win, you don't get all your costs back.

You might just have to pay, and take it as a lesson learnt

Lesson learnt: don't drive a car without insurance. Definitely, don't let a gf drive your car, especially if it deosn't have insurance.

[MANWHOR3]

Also, I'd like to add, that people always go, oh, there's some issue, LEGAL ADVISE. like it's a magic solution.

Think about it from a logical point of view. If you were to go to court, what would you be trying to achieve?

e.g. your GF is obviously liable. obviously you won't argue that she's not liable.

Once she's been proved liable, she will have to pay to fix the damage.

Is the amount reasonable? arguably yes, because it's a bmw. parts are more expensive.

so after admitting fault, there isn't really anything you can achieve.

[scathing]

It happened nearly two month ago. girlfriend was by herself driving my car (Toyota Soarer), braked too late in the rain rammed into the back of a bmw infront, bmw in turn hit the car infront of his too.

The bmw and the car infront of it were stationary at the time, so it seemed my girlfriend was at fault.

I'm a little slow at times, so can you explain something for me?

Your girlfriend collided with a stationary car. Why is it that it "seemed she was at fault", rather than "she was at fault"? Am I missing some piece of the puzzle that actually exonerates her despite the perception?

If you're crouching over a corpse with blood all over your shirt because you tried to stem the bleeding when the cops bust in, it "seems like" you're the murderer. When the cops see you repeatedly stabbing the person while screaming that you hate their guts, I don't think you can reasonably say it just "seems like" you killed them.

Edited November 30, 2006 by scathing

[MANWHOR3]

so NRMA will try and get the money from your GF. If they can't, then they'll just possess your car.

So you might be saying bye to your new car.

It's sad, but life is harsh. insurance is for those very reasons. What about if your gf wrote off a lambo or something?

It's not only running into other cars. If she ran into a building, and if the car caught on fire and burnt down the building, you could be liable for 1mill+

Also, you'd think that wihtout insurance, she'd drive the car as if it was made of glass.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but we all do stupid things in life. I have done my share, and I just like to know what i'm in for.