4wd Beats 2wd

[2rismo]

Remember the old saying;

"Owning a Ferrari does not a Ferrari driver make."

[Tangles]

another Yoda comment

gotta love Yoda, you big green furry ball of cuddles you

............ comes down to the driving style IMO. ie high rpm launches etc

at the end of the day tho, as the ladies say "once you try Black you never go back" - for me the same goes for AWD. Love it, certainly round those bends.

[Madaz]

nah it wouldnt, not enough power to be having heaps of traction issue, the car will bog down more on launch with more weight and driveline loss.

by 100KW i assume your meaning @ the wheels

you look @ the aussie R31 RB30de 119KW @ the fly my mates been dynoed and got 91 @ the wheels now if he tries to launch too hard he will spin the wheels easy where my GTS4 taken the turbo off wouldnt

whilst alot of it depends on driver a 100KW car is easy to loose traction on launch for the inexperianced

Tangles - have you see the stagea jackets ive posted for sale

Edited December 1, 2006 by Madaz

[SRLS1]

One thing blurs the lines... laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaag. Everyone here's pretty much referring to turbo's not 100kW corolla's, so when you're talking turbo power levels the AWD will basically either win or get kaned. Why.. cos either the AWD driver launched from high enough revs that the car didnt fall off boost, and subsequently got off the line a shitload quicker than the gts-t driver.. OR, the AWD driver drove away from idle, and the skyline gts-t driver has since got well into second before the AWD pig has been able to get on boost.

basically, it comes down too.. win = launch = new gearbox

There are alternatives.. i.e. slip the clutch from 4k or something.. but again it involves repair bills.

[nisskid]

by 100KW i assume your meaning @ the wheels

you look @ the aussie R31 RB30de 119KW @ the fly my mates been dynoed and got 91 @ the wheels now if he tries to launch too hard he will spin the wheels easy where my GTS4 taken the turbo off wouldnt

whilst alot of it depends on driver a 100KW car is easy to loose traction on launch for the inexperianced

Tangles - have you see the stagea jackets ive posted for sale

RWD vs AWD

both have 100kw at the engine and weigh around 1 and a 1/4 tonnes (the AWD system would weigh more)

RWD wins from having less weight and less power loss through the driveline and since there isnt much power traction isnt much of an issue.

saying 100kw at the wheels would completely screw the comparison as one of the main disadvantages of AWD is the extra loss of power between the engine and wheels.

yeh and like i said, its not MUCH of an issue, u can still get loose but if u know what ur doing u should be pretty much about the same as the AWD off the line taking into account more power loss and more weight in the AWD.

Edited December 1, 2006 by nisskid

[Madaz]

lol that old age blindness

[nisskid]

i mean u could still rip skids in a 1.25 tonne car with 100kws, but its not like ur going to have serious traction issues.

hrmm...i wonder how the GTR would have done if it was a RWD :ponders:

[Madaz]

i think alot of this would happen

http://youtube.com/watch?v=zjnNKp4j9FE

cant find the 1 im really after

[pixel8r]

the 3 main differences between awd and rwd are

AWD has better traction (pretty much no traction loss)

AWD weighs more

AWD has more loss through the drivetrain.

So if we compare like with like (same kw at flywheel on similar cars, eg. if both were skylines), pretty much the RWD would win in situations where traction is not an issue and vice versa...

The power lost through the drivetrain with ATTESSA AWD systems (as used in skyline GTRs and stageas) is apparently only around 15-20kw so not that much really. Its easily outweighed by the better traction and hence no slippage at all on take off. Also note that with ATTESSA, in normal cruising around, its basically RWD only so fuel consumption would be similar to a RWD car of the same specs. Its only when pushed hard (where slippage is likely to occur) that the AWD/extra drivetrain loss will be in effect.

The extra weight of the AWD however is quite a large difference. I think its about 150-200kg from memory so this would probably have the most impact in the comparison.

Personally I'd rather AWD any day and my reason is purely because that way you never have traction issues so all your performance mods give great results all the way. With RWD sooner or later you will need to sort out traction issues and the more power you get the more you need to worry about traction (assuming street tires). Obviously drag cars (mostly rwd as mentioned previously) are a completely different ball game. I presume the original post was talking more generally though, as am I.

not to mention the added safety and confidence AWD gives particularly in the wet.

[Madaz]

yeah i love my AWD in the wet

oh you also forgot

AWD has slightly worse handleing in stock form (turning)

[pixel8r]

yeah i love my AWD in the wet

oh you also forgot

AWD has slightly worse handleing in stock form (turning)

the difference in turning circle between rwd stageas and awd stageas is less than 1m. something like 70-80cm difference if i remember correctly - so not too bad for awd.

by "handling" do you mean cornering - ie. through the hills etc or just turning as in parking etc.

I would've thought a GTR would handle better than a GTT/GTST in stock form? something to do with awd allowing better acceleration out of corners and less understeer as the front wheels kick in (although i believe oversteer can be an issue - particularly with r32's?).

EDIT: What I love most about Nissan's ATTESSA E-TS AWD system is that its not just a plain old "drive all wheels at once" system like most other awd systems. It varies the torque split depending on the situation therefore giving better fuel economy for daily driving and more power/traction where its needed during more spirited driving.

Edited December 2, 2006 by pixel8r

[Madaz]

yeah i agree the attessa is a feat of human engineering eat it subaroo nissan got it right and nothing comes close

GTR's have a different suspension package to the gts gtst gts4's so i imagine they would handle better

its hard to say also cause there isnt heaps of ppls with stock suspension that i can test that handling theory with

[Deluxe]

R32 GTR's are the way to go! Hook up the switch and you can have either whenever you want! Problem solvered!

[Tangles]

My S1 '97 stagea was ok but lively with spirited driving, not confidence-giving thats for sure, with the stnd suspn and stnd mags/tyres. It would have been a boat around a track.

When the Bilstein shocks with lowering circlips went on using stnd springs, with whiteline bushes and swaybars, and 17s with good tyres, driving in all conditions became a pleasure.

The handling is sublime, either in stop/start traffic or fullpaced twisties.... AWD and turbo are the 2 features that mAdE me buy a Stagea. A 200kw at the 4wheels wagon, that really handles, pulls hard, stops and all that, thats quirky and semi-rare, all for under 30gs (obviously modded a "fair" bit), Im the one doing the smiling

Im assuming the Attessa system will let me use the 200kw very well when pushing thru a Hills corner. At least I'll feel safe enough to pull the steering wheel as hard as necessary, safely, without worrying about the backend snapping out, or the front end drifting and tailing offline.

[nisskid]

Gts-t and GTR both with RB26, GTR will outhandle it anyday, the attessa system is great for road conditions as it has the intial entry of a RWD (minimal understeer) and only uses the FWD when there is over steer hence not using FWD when not needed (once again, minimising understeer).

all-time AWD on the other hand u can see alot of understeer as the FWD always has a split of power and is best used in slippery conditions, hence why u look at the GTR, Evo and WRX on circuit and the GTR will destroy the others, see them on snow/dirt and the WRX and Evo will dominate.

the 2 types of AWD systems are completely different and are designed for different things.

[nos man]

gtr's were tuned for the nurburgring so they're made for normal street and aging roads! the r32 gtr understeers more than r33 and r34! there are only a few r32's with the racing lsd and bigger wheels (v spec models) there were more v spec models starting from the r33 and they came with a more active diff. that's why they have more torque than r32's!

well with awd systems! i've been keeping myself up to date with dvd's and articles! as everyone might have noticed the gtr has ruled the evo's and wrx's! but since the gtr went out of production, evo's and rexies kept going! and it's pretty interesting how they developed their awd systems! the wrx is fitted with a central differential system which the driver can control the power inside the car while driving! the evo 8 yaw system has the reputation for zero counter steer! and now both of these cars are i dare say quicker than r34 gtr's now! their main weapon i believe is their weight! gtr's aren't light car which over time can wear out the tires much quicker and understeer more! i remember watching a video of dirk! a well know racer of gtr's in german! he get's to test the gtr's before they come out for production!! he said most racing gtr's have the attessa removed because the system makes the car easier to drive but not faster!

gtr's have great suspension so if you're looking to just wack on a little bit of power you don't really need to change it! well it's like that on r34's anyway and the brembo brakes are important to the way they corner as well! but if you're looking at like 500hp or something you would want bigger ones!

but still i would love a gtr! i would feel more pride in owning an r32 than a r34 for some reason!

Edited December 2, 2006 by nos man

[nisskid]

GTR isnt out of production, just a bit of distance between models

[nos man]

well ok the SKYLINE GTR is out of production!

now it's just the gtr because they didn't base the proto on a saloon!

[nisskid]

which is f**king lucky cos the G35 looks like ass

[Madaz]

Gts-t and GTR both with RB26, GTR will outhandle it anyday, the attessa system is great for road conditions as it has the intial entry of a RWD (minimal understeer) and only uses the FWD when there is over steer hence not using FWD when not needed (once again, minimising understeer).

all-time AWD on the other hand u can see alot of understeer as the FWD always has a split of power and is best used in slippery conditions, hence why u look at the GTR, Evo and WRX on circuit and the GTR will destroy the others, see them on snow/dirt and the WRX and Evo will dominate.

the 2 types of AWD systems are completely different and are designed for different things.

thats not entirely true torque is sent based on G sensors also i notice sumtimes with mine gts4 i will just all of a sudden round corners @ speed just shift torque to the front for no apparent reason i certainly havnt broken traction in the rear