Pwrfc Or Microtech?

[SilverECR33]

That is something that i really was keen to know, as i figured ,from what the microtech is. that it probably wouldnt be that great for a daily driver, as some of you guys have pointed out. I mean my tuner is a pro at them, and has turned out some great high HP rides using them, but they are Yes " race or weekend" cars, which dont suit my profile.

Now to find myself a PFC for my 33. in good condition... ahhh. i can see im going to have fun.. Im in brisbane, and was going to take it to the P.I.T.S, anyone else know anywhere else that are just as good, for less $$$? for the PFC tune?..

maybe around brissy?.. thanks

[psybic]

there is NO better advice than what MR331307 gave you.

I dont see how it isnt what your looking for.

The ECU is ONLY as good as what the tuner can do with it

I'll third that.

I'm a great believer in asking for many opinions... but you won't be getting many tuners, so find your tuner first!

You're prices are a bit out. Currently I know of two LT12S's for sale under $1200 plug and play.

My tuner charges $300 for full tune.

Also, from experience in two different cars I've owned with microtech's... they were excellent on and off boost as every day drivers and people would always comment how smooth the engine felt as a passenger.

Those with bad microtech results have bad tuners.

If my tuner prefered PowerFC, I would have got one of those instead. Although I do like no AFM... don't know why...

[markimak]

PFC for me. using a kakimoto haha thats a bad cold start ecu.

PFC is a very good daily run about ecu. good for heaps of powers but relies heavily on the standard sensors and suffers bad if something goes wrong. but so are most ecus.

[MR331307]

I have tuned quite a few of both, and unless it has 1000hp and the afm is casing a restriction, the pfc has many more features than the microtec, and will return better fuel economy/cold start/drivability with far less tuning. Most dyno shops can tune a pfc, and many have datalogit, if they cant, i wouldnt let them tune my car.

The problem with getting poor economy,Bad cold starts,Driveablity problems is to do with poor tuning

ive got microtechs in alot of EVERYDAY DRIVEN STREET CARS

and they seem to start straight away no problems and still get 400 kms out of a tank making around 400 rwhp

my advice is to tune more into them or DO THE MICROTECH TECH cause to learn about them

The only problem with microtechs is that too many people think they know what they are doing with them but they dont

Have everyone played with wide open throttle maps and cruise maps

...........

ive had customers from other shops walk into mine saying i wanna change ecus cause the microtechs shit bla bla bla

i get it on my dyno and tune it and the customer comes back in a week with a smile on his face.

Whoever has a microtech and has anyproblems just tell your tuner to do more tuning on it.They are the way to go

A AFM ecu and a map ecu can have the same fuel economy and tuning points but i choose the map sensor cause i can accuatly tune invidual boost rpm points

and also the microtech plug n play installed and tuned is around $1600

if you pay more then this you are getting overcharged

Edited December 5, 2006 by MR331307

[Adriano]

With a very simple closed loop, and far less resolution on the injector duty cycle, trying to get accurate mixture control is impossible with big injectors, especially at low rpm, which has to effect fuel economy.

[T04GTR]

microtech. piss the sucky air flow meters off. everyone can tune a dribbletech

[MR331307]

With a very simple closed loop, and far less resolution on the injector duty cycle, trying to get accurate mixture control is impossible with big injectors, especially at low rpm, which has to effect fuel economy.

maybe if your runing 1600cc injectors

we have vls running 1000cc injectors getting around 300 kms of Normal driving

and besides that

any car with injectors bigger then 850 cc isnt really great with emissions

if you are needing any injector more then 850 cc id perfer to run motec,haltech,hydra or autronic anyways

[R33S2]

The problem with getting poor economy,Bad cold starts,Driveablity problems is to do with poor tuning

Thanks for that LNEMUP, I was really starting to wonder why the LT's had such a bad rap, everyone who asks about mine has a wonderous look when I tell them my economy. BTW my tuner is Peter Woodward.

[MR331307]

Thanks for that LNEMUP, I was really starting to wonder why the LT's had such a bad rap, everyone who asks about mine has a wonderous look when I tell them my economy. BTW my tuner is Peter Woodward.

mate i stand by them all the way

next year im running the lt16 for my r33

speaking to john about it

honestly all ecus are the same once you have some good at tuning them all

but the microtech is the far easiest and cheapest to run once you know what ur doing

[R33fourdoor]

I've had my R33 for 2.5 years now. It runs an LT12 "plug and play" and it's used as a daily driver.

I completely agree, the Microtech is fine for everyday use, but I had a separate map set-up for economy. Original "mild" map was a bit rough and it showed by only returning an average of 17.0 - 18.0L/100Km in city driving with only 189rwkw! On the other hand, my new "economy" map is averaging between 13.5 - 14.0L/100Km in the city with a still healthy 165rwkw. With fuel prices the way they are, that's more like it! ;o)

Each state would have its share of "gun" Microtech tuners, but only a select few are "the real deal".

Query the forums and ask advice from people in your state who have had good results from their Microtech guys, don't bother experimenting. For example, here in Adelaide, I've could only recommend two guys that I would REALLY trust my Microtech with.

There are alot of Microtech experts around but I would reluctantly say that most are specialised in Rotaries, not Nissans. And I've tried tuners that the Rotary guys rave about but they could not extract any worthwhile results from my RB.

Had I been buying one now, I could safely say that I would be happy with either. There have been a few horror stories around, but they are more a reflection on the tuner, not the ECU.

The Microtech and the PFC both have their individual strengths and weaknesses but overall, they're both great ECU's with strong support networks. Put it this way, you could do ALOT worse!!

Good luck with your decison.

[Edge]

It sounds like from what has been said that the microtech lt12 has more resolution for injectors and can be tuned for fuel economy well. I may take the microtech tuning course now that I know there is one. The self tuning capability was the reason I bought it in the first place, and the fact laptop software came bundled with it.

recently I had manual conversion and it was simple load tuned with autobox before conversion to manual as it is now. Has not yet been tuned for manual with flat spots evident, getting over 400-420km/tank running somewhere between 14-18 psi standard turbo variable due to the silly bleed valve.

I think with a proper tune this could work out with amazing fuel economy.

MY QUESTIONS

Is the visible knock sensor on power fc really helpful in tuning the car, or is air/fuel ratio using wideband sensor with the microtech a better way to go?

Can you tune off boost low throttle for 14.7:1 or even 16:1 fuel ratio using the microtech the same as with power fc as I've been told?

When the microtech sees 0 boost does the tune utilise rpm to determine assumed air flow?

Can the microtech self tune?

What is matrix tune?

[psybic]

You should use a wideband sensor when tuning your car anytime.

I was told the knock sensors in power fc's or safc2's aren't that flash and an experienced tuner shouldn't need them.

Microtech does take TPS input so low throttle or hi throttle or whatever is just the same as powerFC.

Microtech see's vacuum as well as boost, so there are no problems when you are seeing less than 0, if thats what you are asking.

No it doesn't self tune, unless there has been an advancement I am unaware of. At the same time, autronic self tune is not recommended as the only tuning, so self tunes seem to just keep things in check after a proper tune.

I think all the little things, like 'self tune' and 'knock sensors' etc, are kinda little gimmicks which aren't important if you are after a decent tune to help your engine run as well as possible.

All ECU's can be tuned to give better or worse economy.

I think you are seeing the computers as more different than they are. The main difference is one takes Air Flow input from your AFM's, the other takes MAP input.

Because all stand alone ecu's do pretty much the same thing, you'll find the best advice is as earlier stated... go with what your tuner wants to tune, because its the man ( or woman ) not the machine that will make a good tune!

[paulr33]

the powerfc and safc dont have their own knock sensors, they use the cars factory one and simply display it to the use in a meningful value. i watch my sensor every day and it provide useful feedback on engine detonation. i use this to make an informed decision about load and ignition timing. they can be used for ign timing tuning and are quiet effective. they are not a replacement for a wideband sensor, and never meant to be. without knock sensor display the user would be unaware of engine deontation when driving. so the engine could be pinging and there would be no alerts, other than audible detonation

[KLR33]

steer clear of microwreck IMO

i have seen un explained lean outs with microtec causing blow ups (several)

since changed to motec problem solved stable A/F ratio

[MR331307]

steer clear of microwreck IMO

i have seen un explained lean outs with microtec causing blow ups (several)

since changed to motec problem solved stable A/F ratio

all bad tuners make excuses

ITS CALLED WOT MAP

in RPM %%%%%%`s

Edited December 14, 2006 by MR331307

[N I B]

Is getting hard to buy a bad ECU these days but no shortage of poor tuner's.We tune any ECU and find all get us what we need just some are more user freindly than others.

[dead32]

well i guess ive gone about this backwards, i will soon have a pfc and i dont have a *tuner* lined up, ive rang around for some rough idea on full tune cost and get anywhere from $600-$900, any suggestions for a tuner todo mine, im in sydney? p.s i chose the pfc because im abit of a sheep lol. if hundreds of ppl swear by em and use them on here and not many other rcu's get mentioned then it must be good.

Edited December 14, 2006 by dead32

[MR331307]

well i guess ive gone about this backwards, i will soon have a pfc and i dont have a *tuner* lined up, ive rang around for some rough idea on full tune cost and get anywhere from $600-$900, any suggestions for a tuner todo mine, im in sydney? p.s i chose the pfc because im abit of a sheep lol. if hundreds of ppl swear by em and use them on here and not many other rcu's get mentioned then it must be good.

take it to adam at just engine management for power fc

[dead32]

by any chance is he a sponser on here or sumtin?

[MR331307]

by any chance is he a sponser on here or sumtin?

He isnt

but his a real good tuner