Whos Interested In The Gt3076r/gt3037 In 52 Trim ?

[AngryRB]

Its just going to reuse the stock manifold, the topmounts are too obvious to authorities, ill reuse my 44mm tial. Im not sure if i should bother trying to port polish the manifold/housing... Will post back when its running again.

Any ideas on manifold/gate setup you intend to use? Be sure to post up some pics of the setup and at least link your results into this thread so we get some continuity and a bit of direct comparison to what Disco's setup does.

Edited March 14, 2013 by AngryRBGTX

[Dale FZ1]

Pretty happy with GTX3067R results I am seeing, was hoping that it might perform like initial impressions suggest it will but wasn't totally sure if the GT30 turbine would allow it. Looks like it does :-)

Gt2871r getting schooled by GTX3067R: http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=4395&page=3

He's nominated a 0.73 housing - wonder what that is.

I'm cautious about accepting the numbers quoted - 460rwhp @20psi when the performance map indicates the thing will do 45lb/min 2.5PR doesn't quite stack up. But the improvement from a better flowing/more efficient turbine is there for all to see when it was making almost the same power number (would like to see the torque curves overlaid actually for area under the curve) from 11psi vs the 2871 on 20psi.

Notice that the GT28 comes on-song nicer down low - predictable. On an SR this could be a decent setup, not so sure on the larger capacity RB25.

[Lithium]

I don't buy those numbers, even on a Dynojet... Unless that is E85 or the like. I do think the spool is something that can be taken from that, and I don't see where it loses to the 28 down low. Either way they are pretty comparable in spool and it is obvious the 67 is going to have a solid edge in flow.

[Dale FZ1]

I don't buy those numbers, even on a Dynojet... , and I don't see where it loses to the 28 down low.... it is obvious the 67 is going to have a solid edge in flow.

Re-checking that thread it looks like the owner misread the query and its actually a GTX3071. Makes much more sense how it might hit the numbers recorded.

I didn't look closely enough at the overlay, and yep you were right, that unit made more everywhere. Pity the GT2871 was not ramped from the same rpm but the picture is there to see. While that graph depicts only what the thing can do in a loaded state (ie not transient), it's telling a story.

I will remain circumspect regarding these GTX compressor units. Looking over the comp map, it is clear that the main advantage over the GT-RS 71mm 52T is that it doesn't fall away quite as much at PR>2.25. But the rotor speeds are much higher to pump the mass. But they both do roughly the same max mass flow, say 45lb/min. Observation only. Shame that guy got his model numbers mixed up.

Either way, yes it's an interesting unit, and no I don't think GTX3067 is best suited to an RB25.

[AngryRB]

I was browsing the atpturbo website and theres a divided 0.78 option for the rear housing, would this be a good thing?

Edited March 15, 2013 by AngryRBGTX

[scotty nm35]

I've always been a bit sus on ATP housings, if it's a Garrett housing then yes, even a Tial or Tial copy work well.

I must admit though, if you could external gate one of these off the housing and slap it on a stock manifold, it could be a great thing. They come in 3 different AR's too.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Garrett-GT30R-0-82-A-R-T3-DIVIDED-Turbine-Housing-3071r-/380224448142?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item588724a68e&_uhb=1#ht_1237wt_902

[AngryRB]

i dont see any 0.63 option for divided it seems to be just for 0.82

I've always been a bit sus on ATP housings, if it's a Garrett housing then yes, even a Tial or Tial copy work well.

I must admit though, if you could external gate one of these off the housing and slap it on a stock manifold, it could be a great thing. They come in 3 different AR's too.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Garrett-GT30R-0-82-A-R-T3-DIVIDED-Turbine-Housing-3071r-/380224448142?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item588724a68e&_uhb=1#ht_1237wt_902

[scotty nm35]

Usually you go up a size with the divided housings, as the splitter takes up internal room. I would think the .82 would work best, or if you want early spool at the expense of a little top end and transient response, go with the .78. There isnt much between them anyway.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Garrett-78-A-R-Divided-T3-Turbine-housing-GT30R-3071R-3076R-3040R-3082R-GTX30R-/380586538982?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item589cb9b7e6#ht_1791wt_902

[discopotato03]

If thats what I tink it is its a Garrett GT32 T3 Euro flanged twin scroll turbine ousing . Try searching Garrett GT3267 and GT3271 , there were two variations of the housing and one may have an integral waste gate . The ext gate type ones were 0.78 AR AFAIK .

A .

[scotty nm35]

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Garrett-1-06-A-R-Divided-T3-Exhaust-housing-GT30R-GT35R-/380353234355?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item588ed1c5b3#ht_1841wt_1159

Thats the 1.06, they are all GT30 external housings.

[discopotato03]

I think they are a reprofiled something else , AFAIK Garrett is only now developing GT30 twin scroll turbine housings and I think they may actually be V Band mount type something like a GTP38R has .

I was reading here last night about a couple of people who used GT3076R 52T turbos on RB25s and it sounds like they spool like a GT3071R but make more mid range power than they do . The smaller (mid size for GT37 compressor) 52 trim wheel must make some difference compared to 56T and fingers crossed it'll come on a little sooner and top out a little less .

I suppose working backwards from say 50 pounds airflow (500 od Hps worth) if you lose up to 100 to any drive train losses it still leaves 400 hp/300 Kw potential at the wheels .

It may just be the ticket to the leastish lag single scroll turbocharger made of currently available Garrett bits .

A .

[Lithium]

Doesn't surprise me if it does spool similar to the 71, I think the 56 seems to hardly give anything away to it so it would make sense that a smaller trim equivalent would close the gap.

Have seen reports that FPs 3076R also spools similar to a 71, and the 3073R is actually slightly better which is pretty cool considering the massive feats of flow they can achieve.

[discopotato03]

I'm not sure if the info is correct but it sounds like the 73mm HTA version of the GT30R is a 54 lb/min compressor end .
It seems like the 52T 76.2mm GT wheel hits the 50 pound area where most offerings are more like 47 or 54/55 pounds . Thinking about it the 71mm GT wheel should be in this area so I'll have a look .

Nope the 56T 71mm GT wheel (GT3071R) hits the wall on Garretts maps at around 47 pounds/min like the GTX3067R . They quote the  GT3071R as good for 480 Hp and the GTX3067R 500 . Garrett never seemed to advertise the 52T GT3076R and it would have been interesting to see what they rated it at . My estimate is around 520 hp with a higher tip speed than the 71mm wheel has so its probably realistic to assume that it spools similarly to a GT3071R whilst having another maybe 35-50 Hps worth of airflow .

A .

Edited March 16, 2013 by discopotato03

[AngryRB]

Do you guys think a ts rear housing is of any use on the GT30's, matched to a stock manifold ? and what size for responsive 300kw?

[Dale FZ1]

Split pulse aka "twin scroll" is relevant and useful in all cases. The difficulty is in doing it right. There are other threads that deal with this topic.

The answer to your question IMO, is no. You would have to perform a bit of miracle fabrication work to graft in the wastegating for split pulse onto a stock manifold. Go to fullrace.com for a look at how they do things, and price up the job. It is the technically best way of doing things, and the results should be discernably better, but there is a cost factor.

I think there are a lot of Skyline owners quite happy with the results of conventional (ie single scroll) setups running single turbocharger.

The best current bet would be to find someone who can/will make a manifold to suit the Evo-spec GT30 split pulse IW turbine housing, and run one that way - dependent on cost comparison with the Full Race type setup.

Edited March 16, 2013 by Dale FZ1

[Dale FZ1]

...the 56T 71mm GT wheel (GT3071R) hits the wall on Garretts maps at around 47 pounds/min like the GTX3067R . ...GT3071R as good for 480 Hp and the GTX3067R 500 . Garrett never seemed to advertise the 52T GT3076R and it would have been interesting to see what they rated it at . My estimate is around 520 hp with a higher tip speed than the 71mm wheel has so its probably realistic to assume that it spools similarly to a GT3071R whilst having another maybe 35-50 Hps worth of airflow .

Garrett literature rates the 56T GT3076 at 525hp, so the 52T version would be a safe bet around 480-500hp

That said, the GTX3067 vs GT3071 56T are rated at different (potential) hp despite the flow maps topping at the same sort of air mass capability. Good example of technical specs making a liar of the marketing blurb, since most people will only look at the quoted figure.

The most telling figure is the speed ranges for the various compressor sizes ie. GTX67mm, GT71mm, GTX71mm, and GT76mm. Each time you go up a size in OD (exducer), the compressor can pump the same mass for lower rotational speeds. I think that is Adrian is acknowledging in a roundabout way by commenting on tip speed. So for a given turbine spec, the "old school" GT76mm is just going to get going earlier. Until I see/experience turbocharger speed datalogging, I would be doubtful that the smaller compressor units "windmill" at significantly different speeds (if at all) than the bigger unit and therefore they have a bigger rpm delta to bridge before doing the business. Smaller diameter, lighter mass, and presumably improved aero might reduce the gap, but as I see it the GT76mm compressor is no slouch in either 52 or 56T sizing.

I also acknowledge that their likely efficiency/capability is not as good at high PR as the more modern GTX design - hence why Mick-o could knock out very (very) good results with the GTX3071 on a stock manifold, high-ish boost and E85. But it takes the higher boost levels to show that improvement. It's a case of understanding the spec of the combination to get the best out of it. I'll bet that Mick could safely achieve another 20-25rwhp and maybe improved spool simply by a change to decent fabricated manifold and EW, but the results vs $$ spent may not justify it.

The rider on all of this is that the GT30 runs only a single spec turbine rotor. I get Disco's commentary in his TR30 thread regarding turbine trim - perhaps the GTX compressors would make a lot more sense with a different trim/aero capable turbine unit but that is all we have commercially available - IF you want to stick with Honeywell product.

I'm interested in comments regarding the HTA compressor units - with some thinking and product planning that is not corporate Honeywell there might be some useful gains while sticking with the GT30 turbine. But I'm also interested to see at what extra cost.

[discopotato03]

Some combinations FP will brew up for you but it can be a costly exercise . Mark at GT Pumps has a tie up with FP so at least you may have a local agent .

TR30s were amongst the first turbos I know of that had speed sensors but its possible the F1 people may have had them too . These days Garrett and I think BW can do it for you as well .

I edited one of my last posts after it was posted so not sure if my thoughts on the GT71mm/76mm 52T capacity in pounds/min were noticed .

Its partly the reason I started the other thread about setting the bar on GTX turbos - namely 47 lb/min (GT3067R) 55 lb/min (GTX3071R) .

We can make 100 guesses why Garrett made the GTX71 wheel that capacity but it proves zip . I reckon there is a market for a 50-52 lb/min GTX compressor aimed at replacing the existing GT3071R , you could argue that the GT3067R is it but its hardly raising the bar above a GT3071R .

The old 52T GT76mm wheel fits in this area and I don't know anything else out of Garret that does .

Don't think I'm totally against the present GTX3071R , I just wonder if you could have 90% of its potential and somehow make it wake up a little sooner .

I'm sure some people here would know the difference between 300 and 330 RWKW performance and the difference in where the jump to light speed starts !

A .

Edited March 17, 2013 by discopotato03

[AngryRB]

Split pulse aka "twin scroll" is relevant and useful in all cases. The difficulty is in doing it right. There are other threads that deal with this topic.

The answer to your question IMO, is no. You would have to perform a bit of miracle fabrication work to graft in the wastegating for split pulse onto a stock manifold. Go to fullrace.com for a look at how they do things, and price up the job. It is the technically best way of doing things, and the results should be discernably better, but there is a cost factor.

I think there are a lot of Skyline owners quite happy with the results of conventional (ie single scroll) setups running single turbocharger.

The best current bet would be to find someone who can/will make a manifold to suit the Evo-spec GT30 split pulse IW turbine housing, and run one that way - dependent on cost comparison with the Full Race type setup.

ive decided to try a divided 0.82 with gate hanging off housing of a gt3037 56trim, Im hoping this isn't a bad idea, but it seems to make sense and will hopefully give the response of a 0.63 or maybe better and still get 300kw. Could adding a twin scroll to a GTX3071 bridge the gap between the GTX3067?

[Dale FZ1]

I'd suggest you try to have a look at the two housing types, say a GT30 0.82 split pulse, and a GT30 0.82 single scroll.

Make sure you have an engineers ruler, and or a set of verniers, and even get hold of a couple of small thick wall pipe sections in the size you think you'll need. Do some research on what size steam pipe bends are available because that's what your fabricator will need to work with. Then after you've measured the size of the scroll where he will be cutting into, try to imagine how that can be married up to the pipe section. And be prepared to explain to your fabricator how he will do it - because the sizes are such that I'm pretty sure he won't see it as achieveable.

Single scroll will be a different situation - they can, and they do fit EW setups onto the housing. There are those who swear by them. That sort of setup must work, but it's got to be limiting if you ever want to try a different spec (even just an A/R change in housing for your existing turbo).

So for a split pulse GT30 onto RB engine, your realistic current options are

1. Get a fabricated manifold to suit the Evo spec IW housing. Bonus is that there are two housing sizes available. Run with a 6Boob, ETM, or even the Kiwi-made Hybrid manifold.

2. Get a fabricated manifold to suit an EW setup. Ideally there should be two gates, and you're going to have fun fitting all the exhaust plumbing into a limited space. Best bet for this one is find who supplies this setup already done, otherwise you're paying workshop rates for someone to figure it all out.

My post on GTX3067, GT3071, GTX3071 and GT3076 is conjecture based on some real life experience, and reading/interpreting published data from the manufacturer. There is nobody who has come on board and stated they are using the GTX3067, so the actual spool characteristics are unknown until someone tries one out and tells us about it. My view has already been stated - don't expect it to outperform any of the other models down low on an RB25. Perhaps on a smaller engine eg SR20, 4G63 Evo and running 1.5 bar+ boost, they could be a good thing - we just don't know. But have a look at Garrett's literature, and see what they are recommending/suggesting should be fitted to that Evo spec housing.

What gap are you trying to bridge? The flow maps are published, and the manufacturer says the bigger 71mm outflows the smaller 67mm, so it will be outpunched up higher for sure - all other factors being equal.

If you went down the road of a split pulse setup for response, theory says the smaller 67 should get going easier, but it's GOT to spin up another 10000rpm or so higher to do its thing compared to the bigger unit. That's got to take time that the bigger compressor is already using to its advantage.

If you are motivated to go the route of a GTX3067 in split pulse then please do. It should knock on the door of 280kw, and perform very good also. I would be very interested to hear and see the results if you want to show it off - plenty of good venues and events around Brisbane eg. Mt Cotton, Norwell, QR, Lakeside.

[Dale FZ1]

I reckon there is a market for a 50-52 lb/min GTX compressor aimed at replacing the existing GT3071R , you could argue that the GT3067R is it but its hardly raising the bar above a GT3071R .

The old 52T GT76mm wheel fits in this area and I don't know anything else out of Garret that does .

Don't think I'm totally against the present GTX3071R , I just wonder if you could have 90% of its potential and somehow make it wake up a little sooner .

The only thing that jumps out at me regarding the GTX series is that they outperform the older GT series in terms of mass flow at higher pressure ratios. Whether they outperform them when compared on an equal footing (ie spec with similar potential mass flow) and see if they can out-spool the older-tech units is the issue.

For that reason I have indicated that the 52T GT3076 will be a good unit, with good spool, and able to touch the 300kW mark especially with the head and cam changes, plus ethanol fuel. On a RB25 we can confidently predict it will take 18-20psi, and at that level the GTX3071 is likely to be very similar in character.

The much-discussed smaller-trim turbine might give that earlier/faster response, but at this stage that isn't happening.

Split pulse, and/or fabricated tubular manifold might also give earlier/faster response, subject to budget and/or desire to keep things looking stock-ish.