Whos Interested In The Gt3076r/gt3037 In 52 Trim ?

[Busky2k]

Any chance on spotting a GT37 52 trim compressor map?

Wonder how much flow it has.. the 56 trim GT37 chokes at 53 lb/min so the 52 trim GT37 might be roughly 48-50lb/min, which would be roughly a hair more than the 56 trim GT35 compressor?

[discopotato03]

I don't have a propper Garrett one but these may give some idea .

I printed out one of those maps ages ago and used liquid paper to white out the red and blue islands . It looks good IMO , I think the .70 A/R bit should have read .60 A/R .

You should also look at recent maps from the real GT3071R . I think both turbos would be the same outline because it looks like they both use the same port shrouded compressor housing .

If we can believe this map it shows 50lbs flow at ~ 1.25 bar or about 18 psig .

Not that it relates to single turbo apps but these 52 trim GT3037S's seem to be what HKS pushes for twin high mount turbos on RB26 top ends .

Cheers Adrian .

Edited January 8, 2007 by discopotato03

[Pauly33GTS-t]

So in conclusion Disco Potato, What would be the optimum, of your choice, cost effective GT30R turbo to slap on to a RB25DET for future modability and street use.

I need to order one within the next few days from Garrett and I think with my blown up turbo I have bite more than I can chew in regards to buying one. I need your knowledge and assistance.

If this custom or new release is a good turbo, I'm interested...

Paul

Edited January 17, 2007 by Pauly33GTS-t

[tridentt150v]

So DP3 your saying this turbo will not be available..........from what I read in another thread???

Damn was holding off waiting, guess I'll have to get the GT3076 then, I'd opt for a hks 2835proS but I want to use my hks cast manifold which has a mount for external wastegate.

[discopotato03]

No just the kit not the turbo .

[tridentt150v]

Unity is a big thing though!!!! A turbo made up of parts.......sometimes the sum of the parts does not reach the prophesised total.

[Roy]

So all very interesting...lol but who has a 3076R 56 trim with 0.82 A/R hot side turbo on their RB25. I need to know the numbers it makes and how it drives....be great if your in Vic

PPl claim that the HKS 3037 with its T25 exhaust housing on well tuned RB25 makes 320rwkws. How realistic is it to expect the same result from the 3076R 56T with its slightly different exhaust housing...im hopin gfor punch but also want the extra hp of the 56T. It seems HKS use the exhaust housing to keep everything nice and responsive with a tighter scroll?

[discopotato03]

Roy their turbine housings are more compact than Garretts , the nozzle is supposed to be a better shape and A/R sizes are in betweens compared to Garretts . The thing is if you want a T3 flange it means an IW Pro S housing , not that you have to use the integral gate though . Trying to merge six pipes into a collector with a T28 flange is not easy .

Other than that the next "fad" will be divided or twin scroll housings which are thin on the ground ATM in T3 flange . There are a few things being tested OS and should have some results next week .

Cheers A .

Edited March 2, 2007 by discopotato03

[Lithium]

Dredging up an age thread - I haven't found any evidence of reference to it so I'll assume it hasn't come up.... from what I understand, the FP3052 from Forced Performance in the States which is frequently used on EVOs is effectively a 52trim GT3076R and they are pretty easily obtained.

[discopotato03]

GCG was supposed to have got a supply of 52 trim GT3076R's in a while back , give them a ring . The ID tag numbers shoud say 700382-10 or -11 and the cartridge number MUST be 700177-5006 for the Garrett factory item .

You have to be careful with American turbo "specs" because they often call a compressor by its inducer diametre in mm . The GT37 series compressors used in the GT3076R/GT3037 turbos measure ~ 52.8 , 55 , 57mm inducer diametres for the 48/52/56T wheels . Who knows what FP's used in their version .

Cheers A .

[Cubes]

PPl claim that the HKS 3037 with its T25 exhaust housing on well tuned RB25 makes 320rwkws. How realistic is it to expect the same result from the 3076R 56T with its slightly different exhaust housing...im hopin gfor punch but also want the extra hp of the 56T. It seems HKS use the exhaust housing to keep everything nice and responsive with a tighter scroll?

I believe the HKS turbine housings are actually a touch looser than the garrett items. .64 vs .68, .82 vs .87 etc

I remember Steve with his old HKS3037S (exact same spec as the Garrett GT3076r 76.2mm 56t) initially had the .6 on his and found 250rwkw on 1bar (Boostworx dyno) was pretty much max and drivability was extremely difficult, it came on like a sledge hammer making throttle control near impossible; dropping the .87 on it + an exhaust change with a set of mild 256 cams and it was making 320rwkw on 20 something psi. That did run a nice plenum and nice exh. manifold.

In the near future (early next year) I plan to head up your neck of the woods to have a little play on your local track.

Would be good to catch up.

[Lithium]

You have to be careful with American turbo "specs" because they often call a compressor by its inducer diametre in mm . The GT37 series compressors used in the GT3076R/GT3037 turbos measure ~ 52.8 , 55 , 57mm inducer diametres for the 48/52/56T wheels . Who knows what FP's used in their version .

Forced performance use the rated lb/min flow of the compressor for their naming... So GT30 turbine with 52lb/m compressor. Their FP3065 is more like a GT3040R. They run the familiar .60a/r antisurge compressor cover...

[discopotato03]

You'd have to check with FP what the ID numbers of their cartridge is . Off the top of my head HKS GT3037 and GT3037S unit numbers are 700382-10 and -11 , the cartridge number is 700177-5006 . The actual compressor wheel is a GT37 BCI-18C in 52 trim .

Hi Cubes , I lost another long post to cyber space and don't have another hour to type it out .

Long story short , my list shows the base model GT3037 sold in 48 or 52 or 56 compressor trim . They come with 0.61 , 0.73 and 0.87 A/R turbine housings meaning a matching set ie 48T-0.61 , 52T-0.73 , 56T-0.87 . Makes sense if you think about rising compressor capacity with greater turbine housing flow capacity . Rated at 420 , 440 , 470 PS .

The GT3037S . These were only sold in 52 and 56 comp trims and with large A/R turbine housings , 52T-1.01 and 56T-1.12 .

Obviously higher gas flow options where low end power/torque was not a concern . The S version also gets the 100mm inlet with the ported shroud where the base version has the plain or normal 70mm T04E inlet boss . Rated at 450 and 480 PS .

These are all fitted with a special HKS GT30 turbine housing thats a hybrid because it has the T25/T28 mounting flange and HKS's slightly smaller GT30 outlet . They don't intent you to fit these to a T3 flanged manifold - Japan being the land of the rising bolt on . They reserved the GT3037 Pro S (sometimes called GT Pro) for the RB20/25DET application . They have either a .68 or .87 A/R integral gate T3 flanged turbine housing with its unique outlet flange style . I think they're probably the best single scroll integral gate housing I've seen to date for GT30 turbine based turbos within their A/R ratio limits .

HKS has sold their turbine housings separately so they have no control over who bolts which housing to which turbo . One downside with the 3037 Pro S is that they only sold them in the 3037's largest compressor trim so for some they can get a littly laggy with no gains if the top end airflow is not needed .

So Cubes I think you can see that using HKS's smallest ratio turbine housing (0.61) with the largest trim compressor option could very likely have issues . The 48T/0.61 or 52T/0.73 combinations would have been a bit less lightswitch and more user friendly I reckon .

In my narrow opinion I think the future is much more mid range punch rather than moonshot revs to develop the power so HKS could do worse to go a little larger in turbine housing A/R with the smaller trim compressors .

Time will tell , cheers A .

[Lithium]

I thought dredging up this old thread would be the best way out pointing this "new" turbo out to see if the masses (ie, DiscoPotato...) have any say on this new thing ForcedPerformance have started playing with - their new "HTA" design turbos. Of most relevance to this thread, the GT3076HTA which claims to both spool better and pump more air than the old 56Trim GT3076R - it seems to use a 7blade 52trim 76mm wheel of some sort, which I thought is the bad juju? Its an interesting looking inducer though.

Thoughts?

http://store.forcedperformance.net/merchan...y_Code=Turbo-FP

[discopotato03]

Hi Lithium , yep been keeping distant tabs on what FP have been turning out . I haven't open that link yep but from what I've read .

Forced Performance have been experimenting with alternative compressors to see what they can do with GT30R and GT35R turbochargers . I'd say they are well aware of the twin scroll system and its advantages but you don't have to be Einstein to realise the money involved with non std manifolds and external waste gates .

Its usually easier to make comp/housing alterations to a turbocharger but some certain characteristics will always be tied to the turbine/housing end because this is what powers the compressor wheel . My personal opinion is that healthy sized wheels and modest trims do the trick and that the turbine and its housing are the most difficult and expensive to get right .

I believe the man at FP doing the work is Robert Young and he's also been cooking up hybrids for Mitsy and Subaru IHI hi flow turbos .

It has been suggested to me (not by Robert) that FP could be using Borg Warner 7/14 blade compressors and port shrouded compressor housings to get similar or better boost threshold out of GT35R/GT30R Garrett turbos with a little more top end flow and power . Actually stateside they have been playing with BW turbos a few different hybrid things . Its interesting that BW turbos are mostly twin scroll and bush/plate bearing which makes sense as often the exhaust end end float is greatest and hardest on the thrust bearing .

Also don't for one minute think that I have a venomous hate of all 7/14 blade compressor wheels . I don't think much of the T04S or any T series wheel really because they have old dinosaur blade forms compared to GT and other similar era designs . Garrett also use more modern 7/14 blade compressors on some of their more recent types such as the GT4088R and GT3782R 50T , these are their C117 family wheels and look very much like a 6/12 blade GT or BCI/BCCW series GT wheel with an extra pair of blades . In both cases the trim size is not big at 52 and 50 and the maps look pretty good compared to some out there . Note their turbine trims are both 78 instead of the typical largish 84T used in many GT turbos .

Anyway back to the FP , they are selling a HTA version of the GT35R (HTA35R) and more recently a HTA30R as well . Rumor has it that they will be doing a HTA version of their FP Evo Green IHI turbo which is basically a reverse rotation Evo ( turbo with the Trust spec TD05H SL2 turbine and FP's exclusive 5 blade 20G compressor . I think the Subaru std rotation version may already be in circulation . Those interested should look at the NASIOC and Evolutionm.net sites .

The grape vine shakes with news of a HTA T04Z and also a HTA42R . I doubt they'l bother with a HTA40R ....

Lastly it looks like FP are probably making what looks like the most successful TO4S 0.70 A/R port shrouded comp housing based on Garrett's non shrouded housing (std on GT3582R) . Both the HTA30R and HTA35R look like they use these modified comp housings .

David Burshur in the US reckons that the HTA35R spools noticeably earlier than a std Garrett GT3582R , note that they often use non GT turbine housings on them possibly because the real ones are more expensive and sometimes in short supply . Also the GT non gated housings have a larger conical outlet and would be a bit more trouble to package on a transverse engined Evo 4G63 app .

Where people neeed to to be careful is looking for any excuse to run a turbo thats larger than necessary , it may be nice to spool a big turbo a little earlier but if its top end capacity is way above whats required its pretty pointless .

A GT3582R is getting quite serious on a 2L twin cam 4 like a 4G63T but there are people who want to run them on the street for reasons best known to themselves . Matter of opinion but Evos have close and short gearing but it still wouldn't suit everyone .

Cheers , A .

Edited April 3, 2008 by discopotato03

[_Ryan_]

Turbine housing and A/R ratio . Again the real GT3071R is a bit particular here so don't know about the .82 on this turbo on a Stagea . They are rather heavy and being automatic probably thrive on low down torque depending on how the stall speed of the torque converter is set up . Engine management is an issue for them and Gary SK is probably the one to ask about Stags .

If I had to make the choise for an RB25 it would most lilely be the GT3076R/GT3037 52T .63 exhaust housing and the port shrouded .60 A/R compressor housing on an R33 spec engine , if I had the luxury of an R34GTT spec RB25 (I wish) I'd be brave and opt for the .82 because the variable cam timing and better aftermarket cam profiles available (slightly shorter duration and a little more valve lift) would probably pull up the off boost and low end torque . If and when these things land here hopefully the supplier will be keen to test both housing sizes which is to their own benefit because a happy customer is great advertising - grape vine shakes and reaches far and wide .

Cheers A .

So after reading pretty much every GT30 thread on this forum over the past few days, I have come to this conclusion, which I would like the gurus(?Adrian?, Dale, Lithium) to confirm.

GCG do a package: Lines, Spacers, Gaskets, Turbo, Dump, Pretty much everything minus an intake pipe for 3070 inc GST RRP, with my turbo dying and expecting a credit card approval, i think this is what all the threads point at:

RB25DET 2WD/RWD The best option for traction and power(300ish rwkw) is the Large .84? Garret rear IW GT3076r

But i own a Stagea, 1750kg, currently auto(manual when it blows), and keeping an eye out for a cheap PFC or will be going a Vipec/Link, a Real GT3071R (700177-5023) with a .63? Garret IW rear should be capable of approx. 270rwkw(which means the cheap 480cc S15 injectors are safe to use VS nismo's for 2-3x the price), dying off after 6500-6800rpm(7000redline anyway) but hopefully getting around 6-7psi around 2-2300rpm, aiming for decent boost by 2800-3300 and all in ASAP(18psi?) for a decent MIDRANGE powerband. An exhaust cam-gear would help bring the boost threshold down. EDIT: [ And a stock internal RB25DET should last longer on 270awkw than 330 ] Current mods: Full exhaust, FMIC, un-connected EBC, so will do turbo/pump/injectors/ECU all at once!

So if anyone with more knowledge than I can confirm or correct the above conclusion, it would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Ryan

Edited May 9, 2009 by Ryan1600

[Dale FZ1]

Ryan the one advantage you do have is an auto gearbox which allows revs to flare and mask any lower end torque deficiency @ 2-2500rpm. My setup (0.87 Pro S / GT3076) in the ECR33 didn’t exactly lack torque down there, but it just got progressively stronger as revs came up. More like a “proper” sports car. Autos really do make things easier for turbo matching because you’re not as conscious of driving into the effective torque range of your engine due to the fluid transmission coupling.

The biggest difficulty with the 0.63 IW GT30 housing seems to be providing adequate boost control. You may have read the experiences of BHDave, and how he attempted to reach a happy medium in keeping things around 16-17psi. Mafia is the only other person I know of with a 0.63 housing, and he’s up around 20psi by choice. Evidently Mafia can hold that sort of boost without too much problem, so the tighter scroll must produce a flow dynamic where the wastegate can only vent so much and forces the rotating assembly to higher speed than targeted.

I have driven Mafia’s 0.63 / GT3076 in isolation from my 0.87 setup and can offer this opinion in the drive: Sub 3500rpm the 0.63 felt more lively by a noticeable, but not massive degree. Also noticeable was the power tending to plateau/drop around 6500, where the bigger 0.87 doesn’t have any real feel of choking. The 0.63 didn’t feel snappy or difficult to drive, and the bigger 0.87 doesn’t feel laggy. It is best described as more linear/progressive, and the extra flow up top offers a broader rev range to use.

With a heavy Stagea to lug around, having an engine that holds power through to 7500 may not be that useful however.

If you could get any other owners out there with actual experience using the 0.63 IW GT30 combination, it would be great to get their opinion. BHDave indicated that the boost/engine response he got was fantastic, but the setup really needed an EW to control things properly. Incidentally I think you’d be doing very (VERY) well to hit 270awkW with a GT3071 0.63 combination, notwithstanding any other clever additions like Mafia has with water/meth. I'll reiterate that the power delivery on Mafia's car is not sudden/abrupt/light-switch like. It was definitely very streetable, and the only question mark relates to whether there is an inherent boost control issue with that 0.63 IW turbine spec.

Summary: I like your thinking, but there are question marks over the 0.63 IW setup while the 0.82 IW has not earned any reputation other than good when matched to an RB25. If you can accept a power cap, then the smaller/faster turbine in a HKS GT-RS, or equivalent GT2871 high flow may well give a pretty good hit of bottom - mid range torque that a heavy wagon would need to feel nice on the road.

Edited May 9, 2009 by Dale FZ1

[_Ryan_]

Cheers for the insight, maybe i should be looking at the large 3076... and then that would be usable when the motor goes pop(eventually) and a high-deck 3L is put in.

Dale, what kind of part-throttle and full-throttle response do you get with your set-up? My auto is only an advantage in the short term, as when funds allow i would prefer my car to be manual!

at the moment i have around 130-150awkw, aslong as things arent WORSE below 3grand, i will be content, as when i am driving fast, it stays between 3-7k obviously.

i am avoiding going a 2871 with a OP6 rear like i had originally planned as i want something that supports enough to get me close to a 12-13sec 1/4. auto stags with around 160awkw manage 14.2ish, so an extra 100+awkw and a manual trans should get 13's or hopefully crack 12's(doubt it though)

Also, I have read that sticking to the compressor and turbine housings the wheels were designed for is better for flow, and i dont want to throw something on knowing deep down it isnt as good as it COULD be, but i DO know a street 1750kg wagon will always be compromises.

for comparison, my car against a new 6L SS ute, off the line they take me, then i catch up once i am out of my silly tall first gear(coming from a car with crazy short gearing )

My aim is maximum area under the curve, rapid boost built when the foot starts to go down, and 250+ awkw(and hopefully a low 13?)

Keep in mind, the RIPS drag R34 GTR is the same weight as my stagea, and it ran 9's(IIRC) first pass out(granted it had 2-3x my target power )

Edited May 9, 2009 by Ryan1600

[Dale FZ1]

The best way to fast times is through light weight, but I think I understand what you're chasing.

Seriously, I'd say the auto is actually your friend in getting a Stagea to move its lardy arse.

The GT3076 / 0.8 A/R combination is by no means laggy or slow to respond either in part or full throttle use. Being a larger turbine than the stock RB25 setup though, it is best described as responding "differently". It puts a smile on your face every time the revs come up, because it's smooth, progressive, and there's a lot of it.

With a bit of stall, I'd say few SS utes would hang with you at any stage if running that combination.

[Lithium]

So after reading pretty much every GT30 thread on this forum over the past few days, I have come to this conclusion, which I would like the gurus(?Adrian?, Dale, Lithium) to confirm.

i am avoiding going a 2871 with a OP6 rear like i had originally planned as i want something that supports enough to get me close to a 12-13sec 1/4. auto stags with around 160awkw manage 14.2ish, so an extra 100+awkw and a manual trans should get 13's or hopefully crack 12's(doubt it though)

Also, I have read that sticking to the compressor and turbine housings the wheels were designed for is better for flow, and i dont want to throw something on knowing deep down it isnt as good as it COULD be, but i DO know a street 1750kg wagon will always be compromises.

for comparison, my car against a new 6L SS ute, off the line they take me, then i catch up once i am out of my silly tall first gear(coming from a car with crazy short gearing )

My aim is maximum area under the curve, rapid boost built when the foot starts to go down, and 250+ awkw(and hopefully a low 13?)

.. dying off after 6500-6800rpm(7000redline anyway) but hopefully getting around 6-7psi around 2-2300rpm, aiming for decent boost by 2800-3300 and all in ASAP(18psi?) for a decent MIDRANGE powerband. An exhaust cam-gear would help bring the boost threshold down. EDIT: [ And a stock internal RB25DET should last longer on 270awkw than 330

Clipped the pain points of interest here - I think you may be a bit short of luck if you want a stock displacement RB25 powered a 1700kg+ car to have the possiblity of doing 12s and getting 6-7psi of boost by 2000-2300rpm, as you will need to make a fair bit of power to make those times possible in my opinion. For what its worth, if I load my .82a/r GT3076R up at 2000rpm it makes about 2psi. I am up around the 7psi mark by 3000rpm off the top of my head, so in terms of your comment you made about not wanting it "worse" under 3000rpm than with the stock turbo - it WILL be even with a .63a/r GT3076R unfortunately. That is really the only time I feel anything relating to compromise for having a bigger turbo, above 3000rpm its all joy and really below 3000rpm

There are definitely things I'd have done differently now that I am where I am at with my build, one of the biggest things I (others may have different opinions and I am open minded on this one) regret doing or wish I had the option of doing when I was in your shoes is just going high mount turbo on a decent manifold etc - getting all the other bits sorted out so it was done once and done right.

If I had a stock R33 *now* and wanted around 300kw @ wheels with the best possible power delivery/spool etc from an RB25DET I would personally be going for a proper twin scroll .78a/r GT3076R setup using a TS 6boost manifold. I don't know if it would be the best combination or not, but if I hadn't already spent the time and money I have and if I knew what I know now it IS what I would do to try and achieve what I was trying to achieve when I set out 3 years ago

While I am pretty sure it still wouldn't make 7psi by 2300rpm on an RB25 I would like to think it'd happily give the spool people with the .63a/r GT3076R (probably better) without the violence but have not far dissimilar resistance to knock and "smooth" power delivery the .82a/r has. If you are going to go single scroll/internal gate/low mount I personally recommend the .82a/r housing. It IS a bit laggier, a bit dougher below 3000rpm but honestly the delivery is nice a smooth and predictable, the flow is really good, the power potential is there and the exhaust pressure etc are far more under control and as such likelyhood of knock, boost creep and other nasties is far reduced.

I've had my .82a/r GT3076R on a stock RB25 running 1bar+ (expect 1bar by probably around 3700rpm with decent boost control setup on stock manifolds/cams etc) for a couple of years and I still love the turbo, just took the car for a thrash tonight and its awesome fun. Great on the track, too - though I'd call the power delivery more of a 4000rpm-7000rpm thing. That doesn't mean its incapable below 4000rpm, but from 4000rpm up is where its really cooking.

To do the same thing I would rather a .78a/r GT3076R on a twinscroll manifold and I guess that is an admission there that I would welcome a little less lag - but I'd certainly not consider downgrading the turbo size if the option was given to me. I can't guarantee how such a setup would work, as I am unaware of anyone with a 6cylinder trying it but in my head it would be the dogs bollux.

Hope this helps?

Edited May 10, 2009 by Lithium