2007 F1 Season

[**JaR**]

LOL...now im no Alonso fan, but what is so wrong with the press conference? He didnt comment on all the the off track politics as he and the team probably dont want to lend them more weight then they already have. Business as usual is what they need to put forward and the other teams believe. Its my understanding thats what Alonso did? Meh, its hard to be obective when ppls feelings and bias are at play.

If i was team principal i wouldnt want the driver to mention anything other then the teams domination on the track and the win!?!?!?!?!?

spot on. Hamilton shits me more with his replies in press conferences, replaying every friggin lap in a single answer to a question and thanking the 'guys back at the factory' the same way each and every time like he's reading it straight off a teleprompter....At least Alonso is humble enough this year to know when he was beaten by a faster team, and says so in the press conference...

Hamilton goes on about how his tires were vibrating due to flat spots as if to imply the tires were at fault....maybe if he didn't lock the brakes up as much as he does in every race they'd stay round

[m3gtr]

lol... you are one bias fan, im sure if any of the other teams where in McLaren position at the moment you wouldn't be saying the same thing.

personally i think that all the treatment McLaren has got is fair, the gearbox issue was there fault no one else if they failed to test it or whatever no one else is to blame.

I really hope as other people have said that if they are found guilty of this whole "stealing of information" they are not jsut fine but BAN from the sport from this season and next. If you cheat you shouldnt be in the sport full stop

And also its clear to see you dont like Alonso, at all Maybe it has something to do with your love for Lewis. McLaren is better off having the best 2 drivers, and im sorry but atm Alonso is one of the top drivers in the sport.

I didn't see the press conference but i will be interested to see it now you say he was disrespectful

oh mate, you got it all wrong. seriously.

look at your post and see the underlinings. You pointed out a misdemeanor but what about all the other things? On saturday the bloody cops in italy came to interrogate them!! you tell me what that was all about.

Ban McLaren from the sport?! Youre off your bloody tree!

Im not going to go on about speculative irregularities but McLaren and LH have bought a whole load more new fans into the sport and all this business is just riving them away.

You imagine 2 years without Mac. I think ill switch to nascar or something. That is unacceptable and something the FIA knows too well. McLaren wont get excluded from the WDC. Expulsion for McLaren would be akin to a lethal injection for F1. You can guarantee that.

Remember that Dennis and Mosley ARE NOT friends. Some are saying its a witch hunt instigated by the FIA on behalf of Mosley, requested by Ferrari. You dont need to be a genius to see the internal and external politicking Ferrari has waged within itself and on its rivals. I place a great deal of responsibilty of this bloody great big whopping mess squarely on its shoulders.

Mate ive met Fernando. Sorry, i dont have the best image of him, but he did stop for a brief chat and signed my cap in suzuka last year.

Ive only seen him as his usual arrogant self, schumacher-esque but this time hes gone over the top for not even showing the slightest concern for the beleaguered team he drives for who are breaking their balls to provide him with a WDC winning machine.

selfish pig. enuf said.

[m3gtr]

LOL...now im no Alonso fan, but what is so wrong with the press conference? He didnt comment on all the the off track politics as he and the team probably dont want to lend them more weight then they already have. Business as usual is what they need to put forward and the other teams believe. Its my understanding thats what Alonso did? Meh, its hard to be obective when ppls feelings and bias are at play.

If i was team principal i wouldnt want the driver to mention anything other then the teams domination on the track and the win!?!?!?!?!?

Roy mate, you are right in that FA didnt comment on the teams difficulties supposedly upholding a privacy of information act between him and the team, but listen...

He didnt even acknowledge or even flinch at the difficulties the team and HE have gone through. He spoke of only HIMSELF and the race HE won and how it was a fantastic day for HIM..selfish bastard. So you acknowledge you were the only one who had a truly happy weekend?? man it wreaks of self imposed ignorance.

He never ONCE mentioned the TEAMS domination.

Hes done at McLaren. Im sure RD will be happy to rid himself of the politics associated with a certain FA.

RD has been along waaaaaaay longer than any FA you care to mention. No respect for your elders i say...

[m3gtr]

spot on. Hamilton shits me more with his replies in press conferences, replaying every friggin lap in a single answer to a question and thanking the 'guys back at the factory' the same way each and every time like he's reading it straight off a teleprompter....At least Alonso is humble enough this year to know when he was beaten by a faster team, and says so in the press conference...

Hamilton goes on about how his tires were vibrating due to flat spots as if to imply the tires were at fault....maybe if he didn't lock the brakes up as much as he does in every race they'd stay round

Thats overly harsh and judgmental, JaR.

Thanking the guys back at the factory is something EVERY driver should do, teleprompter or not.

[Kaido_RR]

oh mate, you got it all wrong. seriously.

look at your post and see the underlinings. You pointed out a misdemeanor but what about all the other things? On saturday the bloody cops in italy came to interrogate them!! you tell me what that was all about.

Ban McLaren from the sport?! Youre off your bloody tree!

Im not going to go on about speculative irregularities but McLaren and LH have bought a whole load more new fans into the sport and all this business is just riving them away.

You imagine 2 years without Mac. I think ill switch to nascar or something. That is unacceptable and something the FIA knows too well. McLaren wont get excluded from the WDC. Expulsion for McLaren would be akin to a lethal injection for F1. You can guarantee that.

Remember that Dennis and Mosley ARE NOT friends. Some are saying its a witch hunt instigated by the FIA on behalf of Mosley, requested by Ferrari. You dont need to be a genius to see the internal and external politicking Ferrari has waged within itself and on its rivals. I place a great deal of responsibilty of this bloody great big whopping mess squarely on its shoulders.

Mate ive met Fernando. Sorry, i dont have the best image of him, but he did stop for a brief chat and signed my cap in suzuka last year.

Ive only seen him as his usual arrogant self, schumacher-esque but this time hes gone over the top for not even showing the slightest concern for the beleaguered team he drives for who are breaking their balls to provide him with a WDC winning machine.

selfish pig. enuf said.

some of your points i have to agree with, i won't like to see McLaren get ban as it would kill the sport and turn into a one horse race But having said that what if McLaren is found guilty what other choice does the FIA have? to let them continue in the sport with just a fine is saying cheating is ok aslong as you have a big enough bank balance..

Weather or not this so called witch hunt has been instigated by Ferrari is nor here nor there... clearly employees of McLaren have done something wrong. and weather the Head/(s) of Mclaren knew it at the time, the company must be held responsible for its employees action plain and simple...

Also im sure Ferrari is wanting the FIA to go after McLaren as the stolen doc. are directly related to Ferrari, so if ferrari is pushing this to go ahead can you blame them if they believe Mclaren benefited even 1% from the doc, its a kick in the face.

What did you expected the Italian police to do? they didnt come to interrogate them But to hand them with doc. stating that they must appear in court, im not sure where the interrogate part came from Although i don't think it was fair to leak that information to the press before hand so they could be there to take advantage of it but i dont see how that could be stopped?

michael

[**JaR**]

some of your points i have to agree with, i won't like to see McLaren get ban as it would kill the sport and turn into a one horse race But having said that what if McLaren is found guilty what other choice does the FIA have? to let them continue in the sport with just a fine is saying cheating is ok aslong as you have a big enough bank balance..

Weather or not this so called witch hunt has been instigated by Ferrari is nor here nor there... clearly employees of McLaren have done something wrong. and weather the Head/(s) of Mclaren knew it at the time, the company must be held responsible for its employees action plain and simple...

Also im sure Ferrari is wanting the FIA to go after McLaren as the stolen doc. are directly related to Ferrari, so if ferrari is pushing this to go ahead can you blame them if they believe Mclaren benefited even 1% from the doc, its a kick in the face.

What did you expected the Italian police to do? they didnt come to interrogate them But to hand them with doc. stating that they must appear in court, im not sure where the interrogate part came from Although i don't think it was fair to leak that information to the press before hand so they could be there to take advantage of it but i dont see how that could be stopped?

michael

Ding ding ding :sorcerer:

[m3gtr]

some of your points i have to agree with, i won't like to see McLaren get ban as it would kill the sport and turn into a one horse race But having said that what if McLaren is found guilty what other choice does the FIA have? to let them continue in the sport with just a fine is saying cheating is ok aslong as you have a big enough bank balance..

Weather or not this so called witch hunt has been instigated by Ferrari is nor here nor there... clearly employees of McLaren have done something wrong. and weather the Head/(s) of Mclaren knew it at the time, the company must be held responsible for its employees action plain and simple...

Also im sure Ferrari is wanting the FIA to go after McLaren as the stolen doc. are directly related to Ferrari, so if ferrari is pushing this to go ahead can you blame them if they believe Mclaren benefited even 1% from the doc, its a kick in the face.

What did you expected the Italian police to do? they didnt come to interrogate them But to hand them with doc. stating that they must appear in court, im not sure where the interrogate part came from Although i don't think it was fair to leak that information to the press before hand so they could be there to take advantage of it but i dont see how that could be stopped?

michael

Totally fair comments Michael. You have some very understandable points. let me explain a few of my understandings...

Going in on the Saturday or is that Satire-day of quali was just a kick in the balls prior to McLarens quali effort. I'm so glad they kicked back harder and put the Macs in P1 and P2 and then FINISHED THERE. It doesn't boggle the mind that Ferrari would've relished the thought of putting their main competitor to the dogs if they could - on their home turf at that - and they tried...unsuccessfully, thank God but im sure Ferrari hasnt given up hope of that happening by any means.

Your comment on culpable responsibility is very respectable but you need to understand that employees can act on their own accord and in their own interests above and against the understanding and knowledge of their employer, in a manner that is detrimental but not entirely up-holdable against the employer should a situation like that come about..

In other words, If only one Mac employee were acting like this and entirely on his/her own - complete and oblivious to other personnel , why should the entire team be punished?

I suppose the purists would argue that "All for one and one for all" mentality but thats complete and utter bullshit according to a certain WD champion...If it were'nt for not being upheld.

but i would argue a different truism where " When the going gets tough, the tough get going."

In answer to your question, there is only evidence - at this point in time, subject to a reconvening this Thursday, that ONE Mac staff member had in his possession anything relating to Ferrari technical information.

All in all, I'm not looking forward to reading Thursday's news...

Adam

[m3gtr]

Ding ding ding :sorcerer:

ding bloody ding, what?

do you not have anything meaningful to contribute to this thread, JaR or did you miss my retort to your post?

[**JaR**]

In other words, If only one Mac employee were acting like this and entirely on his/her own - complete and oblivious to other personnel , why should the entire team be punished?

Because the rules state that the team is responsible for everyone within it....

ding bloody ding, what?

do you not have anything meaningful to contribute to this thread, JaR or did you miss my retort to your post?

Why would I re write something when Michael hit the nail on the head.... if you want me to be more specific, ok...

if McLaren is found guilty what other choice does the FIA have? to let them continue in the sport with just a fine is saying cheating is ok aslong as you have a big enough bank balance..

Weather or not this so called witch hunt has been instigated by Ferrari is nor here nor there... clearly employees of McLaren have done something wrong. and weather the Head/(s) of Mclaren knew it at the time, the company must be held responsible for its employees action plain and simple...

Also im sure Ferrari is wanting the FIA to go after McLaren as the stolen doc. are directly related to Ferrari,

ding. ding. ding.

night

[Kaido_RR]

Totally fair comments Michael. You have some very understandable points. let me explain a few of my understandings...

Going in on the Saturday or is that Satire-day of quali was just a kick in the balls prior to McLarens quali effort. I'm so glad they kicked back harder and put the Macs in P1 and P2 and then FINISHED THERE. It doesn't boggle the mind that Ferrari would've relished the thought of putting their main competitor to the dogs if they could - on their home turf at that - and they tried...unsuccessfully, thank God but im sure Ferrari hasnt given up hope of that happening by any means.

Your comment on culpable responsibility is very respectable but you need to understand that employees can act on their own accord and in their own interests above and against the understanding and knowledge of their employer, in a manner that is detrimental but not entirely up-holdable against the employer should a situation like that come about..

In other words, If only one Mac employee were acting like this and entirely on his/her own - complete and oblivious to other personnel , why should the entire team be punished?

I suppose the purists would argue that "All for one and one for all" mentality but thats complete and utter bullshit according to a certain WD champion...If it were'nt for not being upheld.

but i would argue a different truism where " When the going gets tough, the tough get going."

In answer to your question, there is only evidence - at this point in time, subject to a reconvening this Thursday, that ONE Mac staff member had in his possession anything relating to Ferrari technical information.

All in all, I'm not looking forward to reading Thursday's news...

Adam

hmm

agree at the moment its just evidence, thursday will be interesting and i hope the outcome doesnt affect the coming race. I think the Ferrari will have the upper hand at Spa-Franc but Mclaren's is doing while also so it should be a good battle if the polities stay out of the racing.

I would be interested to see if the FIA have a guideline or Code of contact for the Teams. If they do it should state weather an individual (weather they act for personal interest or team interest) acts consider under the team or the individual. Im currently studing mech eng, so i go on what my code of conduct will be once im employee and weather i do something for presonal gain or company gain the company can be held liable because as they say ignorance is no Excuse for the law, so weather McLaren knew or not doesnt really matter,

but atm everything is all over the place and nobody but the people inside know what is going on (and i would guess some don't even know whats going on)

also on a side note i have to wait until my net uncap so i can watch the after race interview and see what F.A said.

Michael

[ctjet]

Journo admits concocting email quotes

An Italian journalist, who claimed he had evidence of the Fernando Alonso/Pedro de la Rosa's email that has landed McLaren in hot water, has confessed to making up the quotes.

That is just totally awsome... very helpful to the current situation also

Well done

Edited September 11, 2007 by ctjet

[Roy]

Im over the whole Mclaren thing. Now more then evern im wantign to see Williams back on top. BMW, Renault and Red Bull, hell even Honda. If they can get their act together i will gladly sit back and watch them race for a change

[djr81]

Having watched the race I reckon the best bit of driving was by the blokes in the safety cars. Before the race started whoever was pedalling the MB estate backed the thing into the chicane in a way that was just pretty to watch. Later on the safety car was sideways not long after entering the circuit proper. Nice work.

Shame the race was rubbish.

Here is hoping Williams can keep improving.

[m3gtr]

heres hoping McLaren dont get thrown out of the championship.

[djr81]

heres hoping McLaren dont get thrown out of the championship.

They won't. Look what happened to Benetton all those years back. Their shit was more dodgy & they didn't get chucked out. The FIA have already passed judgement, so they can hardly go from no penalty to turfing them out. Although they did that to Tyrrell in 86.

Also given the new allegations are made up anyway, why bother about them?

The gearbox is much kerfuffle about nothing. What McLaren interpretted as a modification, the FIA interpreted as a new component. It wan't anyone being dodgy, just interpreting things differently. It passed the crash test, anyway.

[m3gtr]

I think this little case is a bit different, wont you agree?

the gearbox was a fine, done and dusted but the other stuff?? Ferrari would love the FIA to hand McLaren asses to them on a platter if they could manage it.

lets wait and see for thursday..

[djr81]

I think this little case is a bit different, wont you agree?

the gearbox was a fine, done and dusted but the other stuff?? Ferrari would love the FIA to hand McLaren asses to them on a platter if they could manage it.

lets wait and see for thursday..

Yes it was different. Benetton were blatantly cheating.

Well it has to be said, Ferrari would be better off spending there time making a car that can finish a GP & maybe also one that doesn't randomly head straight for the nearest concrete wall for no good reason.

The stuff about emails was largely a figment of some Italian journalists imagination.

The rest?

Removing a teams constructors points for a pit lane shit fight that cost them anyway. FFS. No idea why the FIA got involved with that at all.

The Stepneygate thing can hardly be sheeted home to Ron Dennis who is has the most integrity of anyone the pit lane. (Well, maybe equal to Frank Williams & Co)

[m3gtr]

Yes it was different. Benetton were blatantly cheating.

Well it has to be said, Ferrari would be better off spending there time making a car that can finish a GP & maybe also one that doesn't randomly head straight for the nearest concrete wall for no good reason.

The stuff about emails was largely a figment of some Italian journalists imagination.

The rest?

Removing a teams constructors points for a pit lane shit fight that cost them anyway. FFS. No idea why the FIA got involved with that at all.

The Stepneygate thing can hardly be sheeted home to Ron Dennis who is has the most integrity of anyone the pit lane. (Well, maybe equal to Frank Williams & Co)

ahhhh..but your forgetting the big Ronster doesnt have a "sir" in front of his name like the old FW...

honestly,. you think ferrari give a shit if Mac is thrown out of the comp? I...dont...think so. The main reason they are so far behind is because of that windtunnel failure going back 3 months.

They would rather flog mac out of the championship and get it by treachery and vindictiveness than let the drivers sort it out on the track, which they cant - the macs too quick.

what other option is there??...ohhhh, yeaaahh.. we can push like hell to get em expelled for this year and hopefully the next!!

You can bet your great grandmother Hilda, Di Montezemollo and co are hell bent on this happening. I wouldnt put it past the ruthless bastards...if i cant win ill f**k your chances up too. great sportsmanship i reckon...

ferrari need to start collecting their dummies and toys and put them back in the pram...

[maka]

Hehe, this formum is full on..

Sorry I am a big F1 fan, a little behind on the sau forums lately, but getting my posts up by the day..

HI ALL!!!!

Yeah I think there is a very unlikely chance of McLaren actually getting kicked out.. seriously, what would it do to the sport. I think it is a little bit far fetched to think that wil happen.

[djr81]

ahhhh..but your forgetting the big Ronster doesnt have a "sir" in front of his name like the old FW...

honestly,. you think ferrari give a shit if Mac is thrown out of the comp? I...dont...think so. The main reason they are so far behind is because of that windtunnel failure going back 3 months.

They would rather flog mac out of the championship and get it by treachery and vindictiveness than let the drivers sort it out on the track, which they cant - the macs too quick.

what other option is there??...ohhhh, yeaaahh.. we can push like hell to get em expelled for this year and hopefully the next!!

You can bet your great grandmother Hilda, Di Montezemollo and co are hell bent on this happening. I wouldnt put it past the ruthless bastards...if i cant win ill f**k your chances up too. great sportsmanship i reckon...

ferrari need to start collecting their dummies and toys and put them back in the pram...

I think you have to look more so at the configuration of the car than simply blame a wind tunnel malfunction. They still have their own test track to confirm the CFD data spat out by their computers. Anyway, it wasn't aero that did for Massa in the last race, it was a bung damper. Kimi was a bit stuffed after walling it prior tot he race. If you check the race even the commentators were noticing the inherently superior damping on the McLarens relative to the Ferraris. So maybe less wind tunnel & more the kindly folk at Koni.

I don't believe that Ferrari does (or ever has) give a sh!t about anything other than Ferrari. It was always the case, going back to the days when Enzo was still running the show. He made Macciavelli look like a rank amateur.

It is not restricted to Ferrari, Tom Walkinshaw was a master at playing silly games to his team's short term benefit & to motor sports long term detriment. But he went bankrupt, so maybe there is hope for us yet.