2007 F1 Season

[Kaido_RR]

witch hunting. Plain and simple.

they needed a scapegoat and KT was it.

Its sad because KT was one of the sports greatest ambassadors. It boggles the mind as to how the FIA and FISA could actually get away with that in the face of all the evidence and impose their judgment regardless.

The same thing is happening to Mclaren.

Makes me sick to be honest.

So it was a win win for ferrari and the FIA. Ferrari got a title they didnt deserve and the FIA got 100million dollars which in essence is going to be used for ferraris benefit anyway...

who knows, maybe the FIA will donate that money in support of a starving 3rd world country...

lol....

come on do you think if anyone else was in Ferrari position the outcome would have been different? NO.

I cant believed people are still placing the blame on Ferrari lol. I have a feeling that if it was any other team in question the drivers would have been ban from racing also but because the FIA know it would kill the sport to kick out the 2 top drivers in the championship they let them continued to race, even they know are saying McLaren is guilty.

Im sure Ferrari loves winning the championship by default....

and if the FIA didnt put the sport first they would have kick out McLaren for sure, but they didnt

“However, due to the exceptional circumstances in which the FIA gave the team’s drivers an immunity in return for providing evidence, there is no penalty in regard to drivers’ points.**

[**JaR**]

What everyone should note is a few points:

1. Court decisions are supposed to be about justice, not about finding a middle ground. It is a judgement, not mediation.

2. The FIA have not explained their verdict.

3. The McLaren owes nothing to the slower Ferrari in terms of design.

4. McLaren, as an organisation, knew nothing of the document. Only one person within the organisation did.

5. As soon a Ron Dennis found out about it he suspended the employee in question.

6. The FIA does not have the sport as its number one priority. It has consitantly demonstrated that reinforcing its own authority is its number one priority. More often than not this has been to the detriment of the sport, be it F1 or other categories.

On the up side it has made me change my mind about something:

Max Mosley is a far better fascist than his father ever was. (Oswald Mosley, look it up)

:laughing-smiley-014:

do you just read what you want to hear and ignore the rest?

"Details of the floor device were sent to me by email to my McLaren work email address," Coughlan continued. "I showed the email fleetingly to Martin Whitmarsh, who asked me to take up the issue with Paddy Lowe, McLaren's engineering director.

"I produced a schematic drawing for Lowe, which I understand he forwarded to the FIA. The FIA subsequently declared the floor device as falling outside the regulations.

"Details of the rear wing device were also sent by email to me. I briefly showed this email to Lowe. I understand he reported this to Charlie Whiting of the FIA at the Melbourne Grand Prix, but he was of the opinion that the design was legal.

In reference to your points.

3. What the hell would you know? Have you seen technical specifications for both the Ferrari and McLaren cars and compared the 2? No, you have not.

4. See the above quote...Looks to me like more than 1 person in the organization knew about it....I count at least 3 just within that quote...

As for the rest of you that think McLaren has been hard done by, no matter how hard Ferrari pushed for this to happen, McLaren broke the rules and had access to another teams designs. They broke the rules, and they've been punished. You should be thankful that they haven't penalized the drivers themselves by expelling them from the WDC completely.

[Kaido_RR]

As for the rest of you that think McLaren has been hard done by, no matter how hard Ferrari pushed for this to happen, McLaren broke the rules and had access to another teams designs. They broke the rules, and they've been punished. You should be thankful that they haven't penalized the drivers themselves by expelling them from the WDC completely.

[m3gtr]

i feel the same way but i know ferrari wanted more if they could get it. This whole mess started at ferrari remember.

what exactly has McLaren been found guilty of??

nothing as far as i know.

[**JaR**]

i feel the same way but i know ferrari wanted more if they could get it. This whole mess started at ferrari remember.

what exactly has McLaren been found guilty of??

nothing as far as i know.

...

they had technical details of a rival team in their posession. If that's not enough they were sent around within the team and more than likely used to improve their own setup.

If that's still not enough, they lied about it all....

As for everyone labelling Ferrari as the devil in all this, why would they not push to have a team penalised/banned etc when their data has been leaked and used. Yes they've inherited the WCC, but to say they don't deserve it is to condone cheating in F1

[Kaido_RR]

i feel the same way but i know ferrari wanted more if they could get it. This whole mess started at ferrari remember.

what exactly has McLaren been found guilty of??

nothing as far as i know.

The Fia are going to release information about the hearing today (or they say they will) and i guess that will detail what McLaren was found guilty of

[**JaR**]

'the team was in breach of the International Sporting Code through their possession of confidential technical data belonging to rivals Ferrari'

"However, due to the exceptional circumstances in which the FIA gave the team's drivers an immunity in return for providing evidence, there is no penalty in regards to drivers' points **.

** No McLaren representative will be allowed on the podium should a McLaren driver win any of the remaining races of the 2007 season.

[Kaido_RR]

'the team was in breach of the International Sporting Code through their possession of confidential technical data belonging to rivals Ferrari'

"However, due to the exceptional circumstances in which the FIA gave the team's drivers an immunity in return for providing evidence, there is no penalty in regards to drivers' points **.

** No McLaren representative will be allowed on the podium should a McLaren driver win any of the remaining races of the 2007 season.

was just about to post that myself

[ctjet]

The problem people have with the ruling is that because of the actions of one stray employee, under the current rules, the rest of the team has to punished. Consistently referring to 'them' doing the wrong thing is disrespectful to those who had nothing to do with the scandal.

[sh@un]

Bruce McLaren would be redlining in his grave

What a complete farce

FIA, go eat a dick

Can't really be bothered watching F1 for the rest of this season now

[**JaR**]

The problem people have with the ruling is that because of the actions of one stray employee, under the current rules, the rest of the team has to punished. Consistently referring to 'them' doing the wrong thing is disrespectful to those who had nothing to do with the scandal.

but it wasn't just 1 employee....read the frigging articles. He passed it onto AT LEAST 2 people involved in development etc....

[m3gtr]

im reading through the transcripts from yesterdays hearing and all i can say at this point is that Dela rosa and Alonso need to have their super licenses burnt in front of them.

those bastards were emailing each other and exchanging info on how the ferraris designs can possibly benefit mac.

I cannot believe what im reading.

If you want a mindblowing account, go to pitpass.

Those scumbags FA and PDR got amnesty even though their emails showed obvious treachery.

Edited September 14, 2007 by m3gtr

[m3gtr]

The drivers, both spaniards were at the centre of this.

Im NOT impressed. RD should SACK both guys, get Paffet in the seat next to hamilton.

That will fix spains little red wagon.

theres a certain driver in the team who simply has to go...

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns19649.html

Edited September 14, 2007 by m3gtr

[ctjet]

Alonso will be in a Renault next year folks... lock it into your calanders

[Roy]

Some of the info surfacing from the FIA now seems to lend credence to a penalty. Sure Ferrari may have been pushing an agenda. But it appears McLaren drivers were openly recieving info on the Ferrari cars which they were then tryin on their cars in testing and race simulations.

Oh well,

[ctjet]

but it wasn't just 1 employee....read the frigging articles. He passed it onto AT LEAST 2 people involved in development etc....

I have read the articles and i realise im not making myself clear. People are focusing on small details and not looking at the saga as a whole. Here we are with Alonso, Pedro, Coughlan and Stepney the only guilty parties here that we know of and yet all four remain unpunished?! Instead the of chasing down the accused the FIA has chosen to go after Mclaren as a Team ignoring the fact the their own team principle supplied the crux of the prosecutions argument... in good faith mind you. And what did account for? 100 fkn million dollars. Thats what.

Why are they chosing to punish the team because of the actions of a few? If your penalising the WHOLE team because of one persons actions, why arnt Ferrari being punished because of their employees actions? Their employee is just as much to blame.

The Mclaren team were completely honest about what they knew, but here two drivers who knew a good portion of the scandal said nothing and are allowed to retain their licences?! How is it that Ron Dennis the only becon of light in this whole sorry story is the one who has to fork out $100mil?? Why aren't they taking that out of Fernando's salary? He'll still rock up to the bank and collect his 35 mil at the end of the year.

People are labeling it as a witch hunt because it was the perfect excuse to take Mclaren (more like Ron) out of the title race and hand it over to Ferrari. I know it, you know it, and so do literally tens of millions of others. The WMSC is punishing the wrong people and its sickening to watch. To go after a man like Ron Dennis with their dirty tricks is beyond reprehensible. He has more credibility in his left pinky finger than the enire F1 sporting body combined, and thats the irony of this case. One of the only honest men left in the sport is being accused of cheating by... Ferrari. Dear god kill me now because if you dont i might just keel over from laughing.

None of these punishment fits any of these crimes. I could literally go on for hours but the more i think about this the more it makes me think as to why i should watch any more of the season knowing that any of the winners dont deserve their place.

Thanks for listening, ill be here all year... dont forget to tip you waitress

[Roy]

Its a team sport. Members of the team were doing the wrong thing. The team was punished. It sux, but i suggest this was the lesser of the evils. Imagine if the Super licences were suspended? There would have been an even larger outcry.

At the end of the day, the extent of what has happened may be unusual..but really, you are never going to stop the theft of IP. What are you going to do, give ppl lobotomies when they leave the team?

[**JaR**]

How can you say any winners from now on don't deserve their places? Massa and Raikkonen aren't sending emails about McLarens and how they can make their designs work for Ferrari.....

The FIA chose the penalty. Ferrari wanted McLaren penalised. Vodafone McLaren Mercedes, not Ron Dennis. The FIA decided the penalty.

IMO, remove them from the WDC and WCC by stripping all points and not allowing them to score any more for the remainder of the season. If a McLaren driver wins the WDC this year, it'll be tainted.

Vodafone McLaren Mercedes cheated.

[ctjet]

How can you say any winners from now on don't deserve their places? Massa and Raikkonen aren't sending emails about McLarens and how they can make their designs work for Ferrari.....

I can say that because Kimi and especally Massa aren't going to win shit... but best of luck to the Kimster, at least he'll make it interesting

The FIA chose the penalty. Ferrari wanted McLaren penalised. Vodafone McLaren Mercedes, not Ron Dennis. The FIA decided the penalty.

Make no distiction... to the people who matter, Ron Dennis IS Vodafone Mclaren Mercedes. He is the heart and soul of that team and the ethos that is Mclaren Mercedes is very much modelled around his methodoligy

IMO, remove them from the WDC and WCC by stripping all points and not allowing them to score any more for the remainder of the season. If a McLaren driver wins the WDC this year, it'll be tainted.

To bad your opinion doesnt mean shit to Max Mosely or the FIA. Didnt you read the bit where i said punshment didnt fit crimes? There was like a whole paragraph on it.

Vodafone McLaren Mercedes cheated.

Really? No joke... thats what that 100 million dollar fine was for? thanks for clearing that up champ, we'd be fkn lost without you. While we're all here got any other pearls of wisdom you'd like to share with us, or do you like just blurting out any nonesensical prattle that spews from you piehole?

Edited September 15, 2007 by ctjet

[**JaR**]

All of your posts amount to the same thing...you having a cry.

I read your paragraph. They need to be DQ'd from both championships. So the punishment does fit the crime, they just didn't cop the full brunt of it like they should have.

At the end of the day, they were found guilty of cheating, were removed from the WCC, by those whose opinions do mean shit, and thats all that matters.