2007 F1 Season

[ctjet]

wait... go back

Did you just accuse me, a good portion of the people in this thread, pitpass.com, planetf1.com, grandprix.com, the ITV commentary team, Eddie Jordan, both Stirling Moss and Jackie Stewart and most sane and rational people of all having a cry?

Are serious or what... you couldnt possibly be that daft, because if you are for your own personal credibilities sake you probably shouldnt comment anymore on this. But i fear this, and your argument, might be a discussion that takes everybody in circles

Edited September 15, 2007 by ctjet

[m3gtr]

I have read the articles and i realise im not making myself clear. People are focusing on small details and not looking at the saga as a whole. Here we are with Alonso, Pedro, Coughlan and Stepney the only guilty parties here that we know of and yet all four remain unpunished?! Instead the of chasing down the accused the FIA has chosen to go after Mclaren as a Team ignoring the fact the their own team principle supplied the crux of the prosecutions argument... in good faith mind you. And what did account for? 100 fkn million dollars. Thats what.

Why are they chosing to punish the team because of the actions of a few? If your penalising the WHOLE team because of one persons actions, why arnt Ferrari being punished because of their employees actions? Their employee is just as much to blame.

The Mclaren team were completely honest about what they knew, but here two drivers who knew a good portion of the scandal said nothing and are allowed to retain their licences?! How is it that Ron Dennis the only becon of light in this whole sorry story is the one who has to fork out $100mil?? Why aren't they taking that out of Fernando's salary? He'll still rock up to the bank and collect his 35 mil at the end of the year.

People are labeling it as a witch hunt because it was the perfect excuse to take Mclaren (more like Ron) out of the title race and hand it over to Ferrari. I know it, you know it, and so do literally tens of millions of others. The WMSC is punishing the wrong people and its sickening to watch. To go after a man like Ron Dennis with their dirty tricks is beyond reprehensible. He has more credibility in his left pinky finger than the enire F1 sporting body combined, and thats the irony of this case. One of the only honest men left in the sport is being accused of cheating by... Ferrari. Dear god kill me now because if you dont i might just keel over from laughing.

None of these punishment fits any of these crimes. I could literally go on for hours but the more i think about this the more it makes me think as to why i should watch any more of the season knowing that any of the winners dont deserve their place.

Thanks for listening, ill be here all year... dont forget to tip you waitress

i think we just finally agreed on something.

Dont worry mate, Im sure Ron will figure out a way to get some of the money he lost out of Alonso and de la Rosa, you can be sure of that now that he knows they were cheating.

Its not only FA who will be shown the door, de la Rosa is OUT.

its funny...RD actuallt said yesterday that Mac will have to do some staff...ehem, "reshuffling" :wub:

[ctjet]

lol... listen, the way this season has rolled on, im sure in the remaining races we'll still find some rediculous reason to get into it about something

I posted this before but its just as relevant here too...

The details are slightly different. They will not have to pay the FIA $100 million from their own bank account. Instead it works like this, according to Christian Sylt, editor of a new book called Formula Money, which explains F1’s finances.

McLaren would have received around $60-70 million in prize money for their constructors’ championship position, so that money goes directly from Formula One Management to the FIA and McLaren will have to write a cheque for the remaining $40 million or so themselves.

But in terms of net cost to them, it is $100 million because that is the hole it will leave in their budget.

They will also have to spend more money next year on freight and travel costs because they will be the 11th team on the grid.

In addition they will find that instead of their current allocation of five garages, they will have two, and instead of their generous allocation of VIP paddock passes for sponsor guests, they will have a limited amount.

It's a huge blow to their prestige as well as their pocket.

Edited September 15, 2007 by ctjet

[Kinks]

Why are they chosing to punish the team because of the actions of a few? If your penalising the WHOLE team because of one persons actions, why arnt Ferrari being punished because of their employees actions? Their employee is just as much to blame.

For the simple reason that McLaren are the ones who stood to gain from it. Ferrari was having their information leaked, which hurts them. Fining them would only add insult to injury.

The Mclaren team were completely honest about what they knew, but here two drivers who knew a good portion of the scandal said nothing and are allowed to retain their licences?! How is it that Ron Dennis the only becon of light in this whole sorry story is the one who has to fork out $100mil?? Why aren't they taking that out of Fernando's salary? He'll still rock up to the bank and collect his 35 mil at the end of the year.

Ron Dennis was completely honest about what he knew. A good number of other team members were privy to the Ferrari data and kept it under their hat - this is wrong. With several people in the team involved, the team should be punished as a whole. Unfortunately, when you punish the team you punish Ron and that is the part that isn't fair.

Suffice to say I never really paid attention to McLaren, have always been a Ferrari fan despite them being a pack of spoilt whingers. Ron Dennis has earned a huge chunk of respect from me for putting fair play above all else. I was reading the ITV's website and James Allen had some very interesting things to say about just how much this will punish McLaren - for instance being the 11th team means they get 2 garages next year instead of 5. That's going to sting. Ron has done the right thing every step of the way and he's been left a flaming bag of dog shit.

I disagree with Alonso getting away scott free. I hope there is a clause in his contract that says if he's found to be engaged in this sort of activity he can kiss his salary goodbye.

The unfortunate thing is that this year the drivers championship is an absolute ripper of a battle. F1 would be labelled a farce if the McLaren drivers were stripped of their points and Ferrari were handed both championships. People want to see it go down to the last race.

Another thing to consider is that this sort of thing has gone on since F1 existed. That doesn't make it right, and I think another part of this is that it was a public incident and once the depth of the problem was revealed someone had to be made an example of. You can't let that sort of thing go unpunished once discovered. In the future I think we'll be seeing a lot more accountability in F1, with staff communications being monitored by the team principal. It may be a positive step in stamping out impropriety.

[ctjet]

So then it begs the question... Why wasnt Toyota dragged through the mud when the two Ferrari employees stole documents back in 2002?

It was a carbon copy case that was far are more extreme, not to mention blatant. Almost all of Toyotas lead engineers knew what was happening and in 2003 produced a Toyota that looked surprisingly Ferrari-esque... and? Nothing happened at all. Ferrari never went after Toyota it went after the rouge engineers, and rightly so. Here we have two completely different cars (as you've no doubt read about on itv.com) and they lose everything they've all worked so hard for.

Now we have the same situation 5 years later and BAM!! 100 million bucks later we have an outcome. You cant tell me that there isnt a bit of discrepency there?

I could tell you the answer but you obviously probably already know

[**JaR**]

is it just me or does kimi look f**kin fat in the pic of him in this article?

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2007/9/6780.html

[Roy]

Its interesting that the drivers are being painted as the bad guys. There is no way i believe for a second that the drivers took it upon themselves to process the Ferrari data and try to apply it to their cars and testing. At a min the drivers race engineers would be involved and a portion of the engineering staff. In turn RD must have been aware as surely the team isnt full of spineless cheats. It seems by the time RD tried to pull the reigns up on what was happening the damage had been done.

Hatss off to RD for handling the whole situation the way he has.

[gtr660hp]

Its interesting that the drivers are being painted as the bad guys. There is no way i believe for a second that the drivers took it upon themselves to process the Ferrari data and try to apply it to their cars and testing. At a min the drivers race engineers would be involved and a portion of the engineering staff. In turn RD must have been aware as surely the team isnt full of spineless cheats. It seems by the time RD tried to pull the reigns up on what was happening the damage had been done.

Hatss off to RD for handling the whole situation the way he has.

Yeah but it was the drivers who where caught txt messaging about the stolen Ferrari data...if Alonso knew detailed info like weight dist. and brakind systems it makes you wonder how many other personel at McLaren knew to.

It just proves how dumb Alonso is getting busted like this...Alonso = Warne (txt message idiot)

[**JaR**]

Ferrari 1 2 on the grid for tonight

[Roy]

LOL... "If they do anything wrong against Alonso, they will have to answer to us in Paris and we will do what is necessary," Mosley is quoted as saying by the Italian daily La Gazzetta dello Sport.

[ctjet]

What a real cockroach Mosley is

[Marco-R34GTT]

Nice to see Ferrari finish 1, 2, 3 and 4...

[m3gtr]

no comment...

[Kaido_RR]

awsome race

good to see some passing, love the battles in the middle pack

Good work by Alonso to hold it on in the 1st lap, even if Hamilton got in front i dont think it would have last as Alonso look to be faster.

Also some of the comments at the beginning of the races where interesting, they are saying if McLaren appeal they run the risk of having there drivers ban if the appeal fails, be interesting to see what they do

[BaysideBlue]

Nice to see Ferrari finish 1, 2, 3 and 4...

LMAO :laughing-smiley-014: team order FTW!

No seriously good to see the fight for driver's championship still on. Kimi is still in with a chance.

Alonso is getting closer to Hamilton, probably his last chance to win another drivers title, at least for the next few years, if he is to move back with Renault as rumoured. Don't think Renault could do much for him next year seeing the way Ferrari and Mclaren dominating this season and with BMW on the rise.

[ctjet]

It takes some real balls to go side by side into Eau Rouge on cold tyres, thats for sure. How dare Hamilton complain against someone cutting infront of him. He's showed on more than a couple of occasions that he more than willing to chop people to keep his position.

Grow up buddy, this is how championships are won and lost.

Flawless races my both Mclaren and Ferraris team leaders, Massa seems to have given up on any WDC hope he had, and setup data sharing (or the lack of) looks to be hurting Hamilton

[Beer Baron]

on the whole mac saga I feel if they were caught cheating then drivers points should have been stripped too. for my mind it should be all or nothing. either take points or don't take points. not the half arsed penalty they have been given.

good to see kimi doing well and webber was on it too. awesome to see him actually put a move of kovaleinen instead of just getting trapped like usual. this race was a top effort from webber.

[Beer Baron]

interesting that the drivers championship table looks like this at the moment:

McLaren-Mercedes 97

McLaren-Mercedes 95

Ferrari 84

Ferrari 77

BMW 56

BMW 33

Renault 22

Renault 17

Williams-Toyota 15

Williams-Toyota 13

Red Bull-Renault 10

Red Bull-Renault 8

Toyota 7

Toyota

All the way down to toyota the team mates are grouped together. which shows that no driver is really outperforming his car or team-mate too much. webber was out of position for a while but a couple of non-points results means he's in 11th.

[Paradizzle]

good to see kimi doing well and webber was on it too. awesome to see him actually put a move of kovaleinen instead of just getting trapped like usual. this race was a top effort from webber.

Yeah was great seeing Webber in the points again! Hopefully he can continue getting a bit closer to the pointy end of the field.

[**JaR**]

Ferrari 1, 2...and convincingly! good stuff

Loved Alonso's move on Hamilton...loved it! and how he answered the numerous questions about it in the press conference...I'm starting to like FA more and more...

P.S he could do alright at Renault...with all his McLaren...and Ferrari knowledge :lol: