Cooler Choice For 800+hp

[SLY33]

Turbo is rated up to 850HP, will be looking at making around 800HP on 33GTR, and need some intercooler options.

The big Trust R-SPL from greenline delivered inc taxes is about $3500, only thing is that apparently its not available in single entry, which i need. Also its not cheap anyway.

So im left with a couple of choices and wondering what else is available as a bolt on?

1) Plazmaman can make me up a custom one, not sure of exact dimensions but he described it as "6.5inch thick USA core, flows 1400HP" and can do it for $2600. I think core and end tanks only.

2) my engine builder can take two 600x300x73 PWR cores (each flow 550-600hp) and weld them together and have the cooler complete for under $2500.

I like the idea of plazmaman as ive heard about top quality work and finish, anyone else had experience with him or of the cores he uses?

If the PWR option will work that will be the most convenient as my engine builder can fit it all up to the car himself (plazmaman isnt in my state). Also the cheapest option.

I have the HKS typeR, rated to ~700HP so its a tad small for the new setup. Anyone know what the HKS type GT is rated to?

Opinions?

Thanks

[600hp]

Mate i've just put the TRUST unit on myself.

The best unit you can put on your car.

I just had Hypertune fit and pipe the cooler to a single T88.

Hopes this helps.

Also it added another 30awkw.

Edited January 22, 2007 by 600hp

[Nathan_G1]

ul need thicker then 73mm, go for a trust or blitz atleast 100-110mm thick, with 2.5 piping which is nice and jolly.

i got mine made for my car, dunno how its gonna go but its 650x300x140mm with 3 inch to throttle and turbo.....pwr

Edited January 17, 2007 by Nathan_G1

[wsln33]

I wouldnt go any of the coolers you mentioned. Id go for an A.R.E one. Have a look at the website and have a look at how much research he has done into intercooling. Im getting one of the 600x300x109 tube and fin for my 26/30 which will see 550rwkw so you could get one of those. I got it for $1300

I definately wouldnt get two cores welded together as that wouldnt be good for flow and especially for the price it is! And i wouldnt get the other option as its not as good as an a.r.e. one which is heaps cheaper. U definately dont need to pay over 1500 for a cooler!

Have a look at www.are.com.au/

[wolverine]

plazmaman.

i have had great experieces with their care on manufacture and fitting difficult jobs.

[SLY33]

ul need thicker then 73mm, go for a trust or blitz atleast 100-110mm thick, with 2.5 piping which is nice and jolly.

73mmx2, so it would be 146mm wide once you weld the two cores together.

wsln33, the ARE certainly sounds good considering the price!

But at those dimensions isnt it a bit marginal? The one you mentioned is basically the same size as my HKS type R cooler. Wouldnt the much thicker cores such as plazmaman/trust at ~160mm+wide be better for dealing with heat soak etc?

I am still waiting on a reply from ARE. I have chatted to plazmaman and he seems very dedicated to producing the best quality coolers on the market, also it was good to speak to the man that would actually be building the cooler himself and get his insights directly.

Will wait and see what ARE has to offer.

[AWD2Go]

I hate when you lose a big post.

In a nutshell and in abbreviated form… I would take a whole different approach.

Example from my car. PWR are in the process of making a Predator style IC for my 180sx. Originally I was going with a typical 600 x 300 x 75 / 100 FMIC.

Trying to keep piping and lag down I decided I would be better off ripping out the radiator and putting the IC there. PWR advised me to go with a 57mm core.

At first I thought that sounded too small until I did the math.

570mm x 426mm x 57mm = 13840740

600mm x 300mm x 75mm = 13500000

PWR explained that the 57mm core would require roughly 25kph less speed to achieve the same cooling as their 73mm core and still be big to cool 600+hp.

Not only does the smaller core cool better at a lower speed it is actually has a larger volume. Now apply the same theory to your car and you may not need anywhere near what you think you require and you could do it at less than light speed.

[wsln33]

73mmx2, so it would be 146mm wide once you weld the two cores together.

wsln33, the ARE certainly sounds good considering the price!

But at those dimensions isnt it a bit marginal? The one you mentioned is basically the same size as my HKS type R cooler. Wouldnt the much thicker cores such as plazmaman/trust at ~160mm+wide be better for dealing with heat soak etc?

I am still waiting on a reply from ARE. I have chatted to plazmaman and he seems very dedicated to producing the best quality coolers on the market, also it was good to speak to the man that would actually be building the cooler himself and get his insights directly.

Will wait and see what ARE has to offer.

If its the same size as your hks typr r one (600x300x109 tube and fin) why dont you stick with that and see if your intake temps are too high when you push it on the dyno. I dont think that size is marginal as a very powerful vl (qwikvl) uses a 600x300x90 garrett bar and plate and has pushed out 550rwkw and ran 8.9's so i think 109 thick will be ample. Give are a call and see what size he recommends. I think 160mm thick is a tad overkill for 800hp and would just make your car a smidge laggier.

[SLY33]

Thanks for the replies.

I spoke to ARE and he told me that a really thick core will give me water temp issues if i leave my aircon condensor fitted. He recommended the 600x300x109 core as mentioned above. He wasnt 100% sure though, saying it depends on my turbo and how hard it will be pushed, eg a 1000hp turbo making a relaxed 800hp may be fine, vs a 700hp turbo trying to squeeze 800hp may see problems. He said that core they rate at 750HP(engine) but if you are pushing a turbo to make that power then intake temps could be an issue. But his argument was that if i went thicker, then water temp could be an issue. Seeing as im looking at 800engine horse at the near limits or the turbo, i would prefer to get a bit more margin of safety in.

In regards to trying my current cooler and seeing if its sufficient, firstly, it is now fitted to my gtst and secondly, ive just spent a small fortune on building this motor, and its going to be run in and then pushed to see what it will make on an engine dyno before it goes in the car, so we want to make sure we get the support systems right the first time.

I have a few more options which is good. Currently looking into a turbonetics core. The turbo im using is from turbonetics, so if i can find a tried and tested core for the turbo in question that will make things much easier.

[wsln33]

Doesnt he have a slightly thicker one? Maybe ring rajab racing (alan 03 93577587) as they have one 115mm. Would be heaps cheaper than $2500!

[PSI Parts]

The first decision when talking about intercoolers is whether you go for air/air or air/water. Most people will immediately pay off the water to air because they are unfamiliar to them, but they can actually be 14times more efficient than air to air. The main reason why these are not chosen is because they do require depth in the engine bay and they are also not as simple as an air to air setup.

If you are serious about the car (which you seem like you are) you should really sit down and do the maths as to flow rates/internal volume/turbulator design/ end plate design/fin orientation etc. And for those people who are telling you to go with a really thick core obviously don't understand how an intercooler actually works, a 10% increase of core will only give you about 10% reduced temperature you did not get out of the first time. To put it another way, the second half of the cores (thickness) does only one-fourth of the work.

If you are building a custom cooler, I would suggest having the end tanks on top/bottom as this will allow for a much larger number of tubes which will help reduce pressure loss.

Things to look for are:

• Internal baffling on piping to create uniform airflow through the core
  
• Good end caps, i.e. no tight curves and provides a wide spectrum of air to the tubes
  
• Extruded-tube or plate-and-shell core
  
• In relation to the system as a whole – AFM position
  

If you are interested I can give you formulas to work out any of the following:

• Power loss
  
• Density change
  
• Lag time
  
• Intercooler efficiency
  
• Core thickness
  
• Tube size
  

[Ronin 09]

Go ARE!

I got a 90mm tube fin for my GTR... it's going on in the next little while.

Custom made, excellent quality... will try and get some pics

[rev210]

ARE gets my vote.

[spirosky33]

garrett core with custom top /bottom end tanks is my advise

and as above contact Alan at rajab racing for good advice

[r33_racer]

we sport a 600X300X109 i think it is that Richard made for us for our track car. He is very switched on when it comes to intercoolers...if you can provide all the exact details on the car and setup he can work out the appropriate sized cooler to suit. Our goal at the moment is 650bhp...we are currently at 570bhp. He said the cooler would be a tad overkill for our target and setup...but the support is there for when we push the power level up further later on. We run a 25/30...that power figure was with a gt3040 .82ar the new motor is the same except with a gt3540 .82ar which should hopefully see us to the 650bhp target.

Just an idea...perhaps you can look at water/meth injection to help with the charge cooling and knock levels, takes some of the strain off the cooler. Weve done this and it works a charm

My vote is with Richard @ ARE... However ive only heard good things about Plazmaman also, i guess hes the southern equivalent of ARE.

Edited January 20, 2007 by r33_racer

[T04GTR]

hmm. very inmterestiing.

any of you guys know much about the trust 600-300-100 tube and fin cores? origonaly a twin entry.

[plazmaman.com]

we sport a 600X300X109 i think it is that Richard made for us for our track car. He is very switched on when it comes to intercoolers...if you can provide all the exact details on the car and setup he can work out the appropriate sized cooler to suit. Our goal at the moment is 650bhp...we are currently at 570bhp. He said the cooler would be a tad overkill for our target and setup...but the support is there for when we push the power level up further later on. We run a 25/30...that power figure was with a gt3040 .82ar the new motor is the same except with a gt3540 .82ar which should hopefully see us to the 650bhp target.

Just an idea...perhaps you can look at water/meth injection to help with the charge cooling and knock levels, takes some of the strain off the cooler. Weve done this and it works a charm

My vote is with Richard @ ARE... However ive only heard good things about Plazmaman also, i guess hes the southern equivalent of ARE.

You can't go wrong going with Richard at ARE.

Real techinical talented and dedicated to his craft.

And a good bloke too.

[T04GTR]

cool

[tom9999]

what size pipeing is better 2.5 or 3 inch for about 300rwkw.

[r33_racer]

you can only go as big as your throttle body size...any bigger will be pointless.