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External Coil Packs/wasted Spark

SirRacer

By SirRacer,
in Engines & Forced Induction

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SirRacer Experienced

SirRacer

Posted
Posted

A tuner ive been speaking to has reccomended i ditch my standard coil packs as they prove to be unreliable (due to age and heat) past the 500rwhp that im after. The computer i want to use (well might) only has 4 coil outputs which is part of the reason im looking to change

Ive seen it done here in NZ a few times using VN commodore parts however im a bit weary of having anything from a vn commodore in my engine bay. Ive very rarely seen it done on this forum however.

What info has anyone got about doing this? He mentioned using LS1 parts?

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https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/152271-external-coil-packswasted-spark/
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SirRacer Experienced

SirRacer

Posted
  • Author
Posted
don't do it.

1. buy a computer with 6 coil drivers

2. buy splitfires

3. never have to worry about misses again

why, that comment doesnt at all help? you may as well have not posted anything

a wasted spark system is a few hundred and splitfires are 600 + the computer difference is 800 hense the reason wanting to look at changing

subzeroR33 Mentor

subzeroR33

Posted
Posted (edited)

I have an external coil pack out of a commodore with a MSD DIS4, and have had no problems.

Its obvious that the heat generated around the standard coil packs effect there reliabilty.

I have them on a bracket which is mounted on the side of the plenum.

Splitfire coilpacks are waste of money so i have been told.

Edited by subzeroR33
CEF11E Veteran

CEF11E

Posted
Posted

Ok,

I will give a more in depth analysis.

The reason people replace coils is the factory coils are past their MBTF and are developing faults. If you were to get a brand new set of coils as spare parts from Nissan they would perform exactly the same as the splitfires. This is because they are from the same factory and made under the same manufacturing process.

These coils are designed to charge and discharge in very short periods of time as required by a turbocharged RB at 7500rpm. Providing you have adiquite ground and no earthing issues you will not have any problems with them.

Wasted spark ignition will use 3 coils that are designed to discharge a lower amperage spark and are not used on turbocharged cars for this reason. you will also have 2 other points of failure or possible failure. The leads... You also need to know the resistance of the new coils to set the ignition dwell. None of the wasted spark coils will have this data available thus possibly burning out the coil drivers or coils.

You also do not want to see what happens to a turbocharged engine when it leans out with a wasted spark ignition system due to fuel cut.

Also once you buy 3 coils, 6 good quality leads and hack up your engine bay you will be looking at atleast $400. for $200 more you can have the splitfires delivered to your little house :(

I have splitfires in my car running 19psi on an rb 20 pushing 240rwkw. they took me 1/2 an hour t put in and I never have to worry about ignition again :D

my 2c

Adriano Grand Master

Adriano

Posted
Posted

Thats all good in theory, except the recharge time never comes close the the total spark cycle, waste spark works fine on turbo/high revving motors, mitsubishi evo's, mazda rotaries etc. The coil recharge time on nissan coils is low due to th compact nature of the coils, not the high revving nature of the motor. If splitfires and nissan coils are exactly the same, why do splitfires run well with more dwell time? I believe that splitfires have a slight varience in the number of coil windings, and maybe wire gauge, but until someone pulls one apart, noone can be sure. There isa fair bit of info about doing a waste spark setup, and i think its a great way around the pricy problems with the nissan setup, just steer clear of the early commodore types, as they are known to have problems, or even better get the msd coils, and you can give them heaps of recharge time so they have a nice fat spark.

MR331307 Experienced

MR331307

Posted
Posted (edited)

Ok heres a good reason

Does everybody know that when a ecu says it can run 6 invidual Coils that it fires them in wasted spark

Noooooooo they dont do they. Well maybe people should check there ecu as 90 % of AMECU`s do

And who said wasted spark doesnt run Correctly i have used it on mine and so has thousands of other high hp turbo cars.

Cheaper and more Easier to use.

How hard is it to farken check timing with coils

Its for the bin

Plenium Leads and Top mount the Way to go

Dwell time on Standard coils 2.5

Dwell time on Splitfires 3.0

Dwell time on El coils 3.5

Dwell time on msd coils 3.8

Then on top the EL coils you run A MSD DIS4 which if you get zappppedddddddddddddddddddd by you`ll know it. hahahhahahahahahhaha

THen you see your spark about 10 cms long

i know trust me

Edited by MR331307
kiwi32 Contributor

kiwi32

Posted
Posted

I use wasted spark on my rb30 i brouht a new vn coil pack for around $100 the leads cost about $60. I changed the dwell time to 4ms(link ecu) and at idle you have to pull the lead a long way off of the plug for it to drop that cylinder then you get a bloddy big shock.

MR331307 Experienced

MR331307

Posted
Posted
I use wasted spark on my rb30 i brouht a new vn coil pack for around $100 the leads cost about $60. I changed the dwell time to 4ms(link ecu) and at idle you have to pull the lead a long way off of the plug for it to drop that cylinder then you get a bloddy big shock.

lol

R31Nismoid Grand Master

R31Nismoid

Posted
Posted

I made 369rwkw/24psi on stock coils

And i've seen many an RB26 get over 400rwkw stock coils... they cant be that bad :(

Just get a HKS box and it'll give you the extra oomph needed, thats why they make em :happy:

MR331307 Experienced

MR331307

Posted
Posted
I made 369rwkw/24psi on stock coils

And i've seen many an RB26 get over 400rwkw stock coils... they cant be that bad :(

Just get a HKS box and it'll give you the extra oomph needed, thats why they make em :happy:

whats the fastest time you have run

JAGR33 Grand Master

JAGR33

Posted
Posted
whats the fastest time you have run

What's that got to do with anything??

I'm sure the discussion is on coils... :(

Oh, and I guess it depends on what you want, there's quite a few GTR's running over 400rwkw with standard coils, but running the HKS Twin Spark...

I'm running this setup and have never had issues with spark...

psybic Proficient

psybic

Posted
Posted
why, that comment doesnt at all help? you may as well have not posted anything

a wasted spark system is a few hundred and splitfires are 600 + the computer difference is 800 hense the reason wanting to look at changing

Harsh... especially when you are saying the computer is $800 more.... I know of one ECU that runs six ignition drivers for about $1000.

Adaptronic I think its called, search on that one.

Also, if you wanna go with a better known brand, Microtech LT12s is NOT $800 more than the LT10s. Its only an extra $300 I believe.

I've often wondered why not just run 6 bosch coils with leads to your plugs. Should only cost a few hundred to set up and pair that with the adaptronic, you get the whole setup for under 1500 i'd imagine... if you can wire it yourself. Id do that if I had an RB engine in need of coils and ecu.

  • 3 weeks later...
Adriano Grand Master

Adriano

Posted
Posted

Yep, using them on a starion, dial up 4ms dwell time, so far making 240rwkw with two coils, so should be fine for at least 360 rwkw on a six. It certainly helps to upgrade the power and earth wires to reduce voltage drop, And adaptronics are great valuewith more features then anything of the same cost.

SirRacer Experienced

SirRacer

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Yep, using them on a starion, dial up 4ms dwell time, so far making 240rwkw with two coils, so should be fine for at least 360 rwkw on a six. It certainly helps to upgrade the power and earth wires to reduce voltage drop, And adaptronics are great valuewith more features then anything of the same cost.

cheers mate, thats good info

so your using the evo coils then? what did you pay for them out of interest?

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