Defect N 2 Fines :(

[frx026]

I have pink lights installed under the dash to light up the footwells.. I was told by a snr sgt that its fine to install them but they cant be on whilst driving. I think its the same for underbody neons.

PJ are you sure it's legal to have them on?

Oh and the only legal colour is green btw.

Hi Kaz,

From my understanding of the requirements of additional lighting the following points must be considered in relation to under car neons/led

1. the light source cannot be visible only the glow

2. the lights cannot flash or spin

3. there must be a seperate on/off switch for them

4. they must be installed with a seperate circuit with appropriate fusing, wire etc in a safe manner

5. Red lights cannot face forward outside the vehicle

6. red and blue cannot be seen at once ( brake/tail lights red, neon blue) this is bad

7. colors generally used safely are green, orange, purple

8. products fitted must be designed for the intended use

9. lighting cannot impede entry to/ exit from the vehicle

10. ground clearance must be maintained

as for interoir neons/leds same guidelines so under dash lighting up footwells is ok.

But, having said that. I have fitted to them to many cars over the years and can certainally be an attention getter. Sometimes though, it is the wrong type of attention.

[Pax-Ottomanica]

waiting for thread to be locked.

Why lock?

[KamikazeR33]

ive always found it funny how ppl are rude until u mention the word "ombudsmen". then they shake at the knees

[KamikazeR33]

kaz neons are illegal in nsw to have on whilst driving or parked if in a public area, carparks and private property are different

[HOTRDE]

1. There is a loophole that says you do not have to have a front numberplate affixed to the front of the car (this is why motorbikes do not have to display one) If it was on the front windscreen you should be able to get let off the fine.

2. You can write a letter to the OPI (office of police integrity) about your complaint but if it is seen as a management/behavioural issue they will refer you to ESD. I suggest you write a letter to both. Do not exagerate the incident as they will speak to the officers. If you have any witnesses in the car (ie, your girlfreind get her to write one in too). Do not pay the fine until you here back from them. Ring ESD to clarify.

There address are as follows:

ESD Police Conduct Unit

412 ST KILDA RD

Melbourne, Vic 3001

1300 363 101

Ring to find where OPI is as i cant remember there exact address. It will more than likely be ESD handling your complaint then forwarding on to the senior sergeant at that station that will then deal with the situation, he will then ring you and ask what you want done about it, just discuss with him what happened. They will all sound like arogant pricks on the phone too, dont be put off by it and stick to what decision you have made, dont be intimidated. He will make excuses on behalf of the officers (siting the riot last week, drags etc) dont listen to him and just state it is besides the point.

3. When asking any officer they MUST give there name, station and rank (they do not have to give superior officers name), if they refuse it is a breach of there code of conduct. It is there duty when asked by you on request to supply their details. As it is by you, when asked by them

You should be able to get one of the officers names, station, rank and badge number from the bottom of the fine. Use it when writing the letter and state, his partner whose name you did not get was also rude.

ESD do not look apon his actions too kindly and it makes a difference in there attitudes the next time they go to pull some one over or are looked over for a promotion.

4. When a officer says to you that he will be doing an inspection of you car, ask him if it is a roadworthy. If he says yes he may only search your car for roadworthy items. (he is not allowed to search through bags etc.) This also includes your glovebox and centre console as there are no roadwothy items in there. You have a right to ask him to stop searching your vehicle at anytime if he starts to check other things. If they are looking for drugs they must state they are and have probable cause.

5. Neons can be considered illegal is they are dazzling or distracting to other drivers it is advised not to drive with them on. If they were not on there is nothing the police officers can do about it.

6. I suggest to all people on this forum to carry in there car at all times a notepad, pen and tape recorder (or use your phone).

Edited January 21, 2007 by HOTRDE

[gdogzgtr]

If you were issued a Penalty notice and NOU the officer's details would be written on both, so I don't see how you don't have his badge and station details.

Yes, you can absolutely be issued more than one penalty notice in a day for same offence. I have personally fined somebody for same offence twice in 15 minutes( Unregistered car) continued to drive after being told not to. I personally don't issue too many NOU as I haven't done our special training course so stick to obvious issues like Tyres and broken lights etc. I personally don't get the whole attitude thing as I have had only one complaint in 5 years and probably given out the most fines/EPA/NOU at my station. I think it's a two way street.

[Savage Bliss]

Yes, you can absolutely be issued more than one penalty notice in a day for same offence. I have personally fined somebody for same offence twice in 15 minutes( Unregistered car) continued to drive after being told not to.

Do you think though this lad has a case though if he wasn't told not to drive his car? If the officer said when the first fine issued "drive home and don't drive it anywhere else" for instance, fine. But if he wasn't told that, can he/should he contest the second fine?

I know it's his word against the officers, but worth a shot maybe? Just curious.

[gdogzgtr]

I personally think it's quite harsh what has happened but also it sounds like there was some time between fine like 12 Hrs or so. If it were on the way home 15 minutes later or so I probably would contest and it might not have been issued(second fine)t but with time to fit plate before driving again I doubt he would have any chance. I agree it's harsh but half a day to fit plate before driving is not unreasonable that would be the courts take on things. I am sure the fine would stand.

[Savage Bliss]

Fair enough.

[HOTRDE]

If you were issued a Penalty notice and NOU the officer's details would be written on both, so I don't see how you don't have his badge and station details.

Yes, you can absolutely be issued more than one penalty notice in a day for same offence. I have personally fined somebody for same offence twice in 15 minutes( Unregistered car) continued to drive after being told not to. I personally don't issue too many NOU as I haven't done our special training course so stick to obvious issues like Tyres and broken lights etc. I personally don't get the whole attitude thing as I have had only one complaint in 5 years and probably given out the most fines/EPA/NOU at my station. I think it's a two way street.

NOU = notice of unroadworthiness

I think linedupr33's point is that he asked for there details and they didnt supply him with them. He may have one of the officers details but what about the other. If he refused to supply them with his details he may be detained until they verify his identity. It is a two way street but it only ever seems to go one way!!

He did do they wrong thing by not affixing the plate 12hrs later. He did do the right thing by still displaying it. I would personally contest them as they were still technically displayed at the front of the vehicle.

You probably dont get many complaints because you treat people as you wish to be treated.

Edited January 21, 2007 by HOTRDE

[linedup33]

I am gonna get a rwc certificate 4 the defect, so i can remove that ugly sticker from my windscreen. I will take up those 2 licence plate fines, as i lost 3 points 4 each fine. N report that officer of the law 4 breaking the law by not providing me his details wen i asked

[HOTRDE]

I am gonna get a rwc certificate 4 the defect, so i can remove that ugly sticker from my windscreen. I will take up those 2 licence plate fines, as i lost 3 points 4 each fine. N report that officer of the law 4 breaking the law by not providing me his details wen i asked

Read these mate, you should find the info your looking for in here

Vehicle Standards Regulations Roadworthiness

http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/RulesS...rdsInformaiton/

Demerit Point Penalties

http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/Licens...intOffences.htm

Road Safety Act (General) Regulations

http://www.dms.dpc.vic.gov.au/Domino/Web_N...33;OpenDocument

Road Safety Act (Drivers) Regulations

http://www.dms.dpc.vic.gov.au/Domino/Web_N...33;OpenDocument

[linedup33]

thanks for those links mate...they also sed they couldnt see my p plate coz its pointing up - its on the rear windscreen, theres no were else to put it, coz the whole rear windscreen is like sorta slanted :s

[SteveL]

1. There is a loophole that says you do not have to have a front numberplate affixed to the front of the car (this is why motorbikes do not have to display one) If it was on the front windscreen you should be able to get let off the fine.

There is no 'loophole'. The regulations specifically exempt motorcycles - and motorcycles only - from carrying a front number plate, which is due to rider and pedestrian safety consideration and was brought about by an extensive campaign by the MRA in the 1980's (along with the support of a number of other road safety organisations). I suggest you have a read of the relevant regulations for yourself, as should the OP:

http://www.dms.dpc.vic.gov.au/Domino/Web_N...33;OpenDocument

As to front number plates being displayed through the front windscreen, I think the OP might also have a problem there as the regs specifically state:

"A registered operator of a registered vehicle must ensure that each number plate issued by the Corporation for the vehicle is permanently affixed to the vehicle......"

Note the word 'permanently'. I think any lawyer would have a hard time convincing a magistrate that a number plate sitting on the dash of a vehicle is in any way 'permanently' attached.........but I suppose you never know your luck.

Where the OP might have a (slim) hope is the fact that the regs do give some leeway where 'due to the construction of the vehicle it is not practicable to comply with those paragraphs' (concerning affixing number plates). However since it is the OP's actions in changing the front bar which has resulted in the front number plate not being displayed, I suspect any argument in that area will also be 'problematic'.

[MarkR33]

hey all just had the worst w/e...

You might want to write a letter to the ombudsman/cops what ever using at least full words.

they might take you seriously then

might also communicate some intelligence.. which so far seems lacking

git it cuZ?

IzdatSh1tWakd?

Edited January 21, 2007 by MarkR33

[linedup33]

^ is this guy serious? What did u think i was going sms the police? What was the purpose of your post just then. Your saying i should use full words maybe step back and use your full brain.

[MarkR33]

^ is this guy serious? What did u think i was going sms the police? What was the purpose of your post just then. Your saying i should use full words maybe step back and use your full brain.

of course not. I was hoping you would bend over and let me ram a dictionary up your ass. That was the purpose of my post.

[linedup33]

Mate u sound like the saddest kent, stop being a wanger n go play with ur sisters dolls. If u dunno wat wanger means pull the dictionary outta ur own ass n look it up therell b pic of u sitting in ur camry or nimbus under the word

[Ruffels]

lies! i live in northern and there all a bunch of asses to me. Must just be because of the way i look or something. My cars never defectable, but they're always so rude.. a while ago they searched my car, without even asking me, pulled the trims off the sides of my doors and threw everything out of my boot on the ground.. they wouldnt give me badge numbers either but i think they were from some drug related thing.. dacked my mate on the roadside and put there hands around his boxers to.. lol, least it was a chick cop..

yeah i live near you too! and the other day mates and i were hanging out in a quiet spot just having a chat... next thing cops rock up, extreamly rude to us, we tried to be polite as possible, next second they opened the doors of our cars with out asking or saying a word to us about what they were doing, feet on my seat, ripping open glove boxes, and centre consoles etc, found nothing and then proceeding to pat us down against our cars, finding nothing once again... handing our liscences back and then burning off! WTF?

they act on the basis that most people dont know thier rights, but when people do they seem to get aggressive and intimidatting about it... now i know im making it out although all cops are like this! and dont get me wrong ... not all cops are like this! how ever it has been just my luck that the ones that are polite and know how to do thier jobs right dont seem to ever pull me over!

[HOTRDE]

There is no 'loophole'. The regulations specifically exempt motorcycles - and motorcycles only - from carrying a front number plate, which is due to rider and pedestrian safety consideration and was brought about by an extensive campaign by the MRA in the 1980's (along with the support of a number of other road safety organisations). I suggest you have a read of the relevant regulations for yourself, as should the OP:

http://www.dms.dpc.vic.gov.au/Domino/Web_N...33;OpenDocument

As to front number plates being displayed through the front windscreen, I think the OP might also have a problem there as the regs specifically state:

"A registered operator of a registered vehicle must ensure that each number plate issued by the Corporation for the vehicle is permanently affixed to the vehicle......"

Note the word 'permanently'. I think any lawyer would have a hard time convincing a magistrate that a number plate sitting on the dash of a vehicle is in any way 'permanently' attached.........but I suppose you never know your luck.

Where the OP might have a (slim) hope is the fact that the regs do give some leeway where 'due to the construction of the vehicle it is not practicable to comply with those paragraphs' (concerning affixing number plates). However since it is the OP's actions in changing the front bar which has resulted in the front number plate not being displayed, I suspect any argument in that area will also be 'problematic'.

My apologies about writing the word "loophole". I should have written provision! I am aware of the regulations SteveL. I should reword it then.

On every car NO numberplate is affixed permanately, you can take them off anytime you like! Unless they have 1 way screws. I see no difference if he had them on his front window, as they too are not permanately affixed even if siliconed them on.

It also states (subsection d) one numberplate MUST be on the rear and front of the car. He had done that. If a officer can see it on a 45 degree angle either side of the car there should be no problem. Nothing in the regs suggests he has to affix it to his bumper bar.

In all if he takes it to court, it would be up to the magistrate to decide.

Cheers,

Jay

Edited January 23, 2007 by HOTRDE