The Reason They Invented The Hoon Laws

[GODTHRILA]

This is a great win for common sense... to get your car taken away for "hoonin", you have to be doing sumfin more than a few km's over the speed limit... and to do that 3 times within 5 years, you have got to be asking for it!

This guy should have his car, keys and prison man love virginity taken ASAP.

A great win for common sense?

Did he get the car confiscated for trying to run over a police officer? No, he got it confiscated for spinning the wheels.....

So on which particular planet does that constitute common sense?

Well on planet Earth it's common sense for the government to take someones car if they are going to repeatedly break the hoon law... and while they are at it, send them to the lock-up for some time to reflect.

The "trying to run over a police officer" is a seperate matter that doesn't fall into the hoon law, so it should be delt with seperately with it's own penalties... I am sure this will be the case. It coincidently is common sense on planet Earth that if you try and run over a cop and you get away, you will be found later, which he was!

Both incidences are serious matters, the paper has obviously chosen to focus on one of them (perhaps the one that is being delt with by the courts first?). It looks like the hoon law incident has been delt with... who knows, the guy might have another court date already set regarding the police officer business???

just my 2c

any way I have to jump in my shuttle back to planet no-common-sense, where there are no hoon laws and running down cops in gemini's is our national sport

[Denver]

Id really like to know how the laws are worded, so they can take your car, given its actually your property, and you own it, so its not exactly something, someone by rights, like the police, should be able to take off you..

oddly enough i happened to be waiting for a tow truck one night to take away a car someone i knew was driving, while waiting, the copper tried to crap on about the laws, and my conversation with him went like this

me: "i don't see how, LEGALLY, you can take someones car, as well, they own it"

cop:"well, its the same as the proceeds of crime act"

me:"arr, no, tjhe proceeds of crime act was to remove property, that has been purchased, thrugh the sale of drugs and so forth, its nothing like busting someone for doing a skid"

cop:"yes it, its the same law"

me:"no, one is for drug dealers, the other has no basis, i don't think legally you can do it"

cop:"it is, and thats it"

at that point he walked away, so it seems they don't even really know..

if they do try to take it witht he laws regarding to the proceeds of crime, i seriously doubt theyd have any legal footing to take a car if someone challenged it in court..

given it seems its mostly shit boxes that have been taken, the owners don't seem too phased to make a legal challenge about it, however, its only a matter of time when they take something of value, and it gets challenged in court..

[big col]

That's really f**ked up if they can take a car away and forfeit it to the crown after 3 offences in a 5 year period under the hoon law. What if its somebody elses car when they commit the third offence? Hopefully somebody in court contests and proves it isnt legal, cause that's just not right!

This bloke doesn't deserve his car to be taken away, he deserves a longer stay in ass pounding prison for trying to run over a cop!

btw I hate the hoon law. It's abused so much, as already said it's mainly used as an excuse to pull over vehicles (anything modified or anything with a P plate on it, or even both!) so they can try slapping a yellow sticker on.

[Mr. Keets]

"....however, its only a matter of time when they take something of value, and it gets challenged in court.."

We had this conversation a last year when I brough these W.A. hoon laws up in another thread and my point is the same...The sentence must fit the crime...spin your wheels three times in five years and lose...oh I dont know, maybe a $300K Ferrari and someone with the means will take it to court. Notice I said Ferrari, I could be a Skyline there are more than a few modified examples in this town that are worth over $100K so this may actually happen. I keep a close eye on my budget and by the time I'm satisfied that 100K line will be crossed...and there is no way I would let the plods take my car without goint to court.

Fight the powa

"... he deserves a longer stay in ass pounding prison for trying to run over a cop!..."

Yes, yes he does

[djr81]

Well on planet Earth it's common sense for the government to take someones car if they are going to repeatedly break the hoon law... and while they are at it, send them to the lock-up for some time to reflect.

The "trying to run over a police officer" is a seperate matter that doesn't fall into the hoon law, so it should be delt with seperately with it's own penalties... I am sure this will be the case. It coincidently is common sense on planet Earth that if you try and run over a cop and you get away, you will be found later, which he was!

Both incidences are serious matters, the paper has obviously chosen to focus on one of them (perhaps the one that is being delt with by the courts first?). It looks like the hoon law incident has been delt with... who knows, the guy might have another court date already set regarding the police officer business???

just my 2c

any way I have to jump in my shuttle back to planet no-common-sense, where there are no hoon laws and running down cops in gemini's is our national sport

OK, you have completely missed my point. Which is this:

To be a fair law the punishment should be proportional to the offence.

The way the laws are written there is no connection between the offence & the punishment, ie some idiot could lose their $500 Gemini for doing a burnout, but equally could lose a $50,000 car for the same offence. In this case the article & particularly the headline reads as though a burnout is a far more heinous crime than trying to run over a copper. You would hope that the punishment for trying to run someone over is worse than that for doing a burnout. But, because of the way the law is written, this may or may not be the case.

Personally I think a just penalty for doing burnouts on the roads is for the said offender to be dragged out of their car & punched repeatedly in the head. Both the act & the sort of dickheads that do this stuff are offensive. They are not, however particularly dangerous which is the PR spin put on it by the government. Not yet heard of anyone being killed doing a burnout...

[GODTHRILA]

OK, you have completely missed my point. Which is this:

To be a fair law the punishment should be proportional to the offence.

The way the laws are written there is no connection between the offence & the punishment, ie some idiot could lose their $500 Gemini for doing a burnout, but equally could lose a $50,000 car for the same offence.

Well shoud the penalty for murder be varied depending how expensive the gun was that used? If it's a $500 Gemini or a Ferrari Enzo... break the hoon law repeatedly and face the consiquences.

I am sure you could probably do a burnout and drive on your merry way... but put this dickhead behind the wheel and he is likely to make a mess of someone or something. You can't walk into court defending yourself against the hoon law and say "well I have completed driver traing courses, and hold a CAMS licence and I was in total control of the burnout... no one was in danger your honour, oh and my cars worth more than your house"... the judge would laugh at you! The law is unbiased to what car you drive or your driving capabilities... if you use any car to do burnouts, recklessly speed, do bin runs, etc... the simple fact is you and that car don't mix well... therefore the police will seperate you from it.

[bubba]

oh BIN RUNS! it's been several years since I did one of those we got chased by a little rally car one night after a bin run

I disagree with the hoon laws and the parallel they draw with the forfeiting procedes of a crime just doesn't fly. Did you make any money while doing this burnout on the road? any profits? at best it cost you tyres.. does that mean that cops owe you some rubber?? It's absolutely ridiculous.

[Boostzor]

Oh man what have i begun.

I have also noticed that people who complain about being pulled over are youngens in modified cars. You do realise that cops have been pulling people over before these laws and will long after they are gone, if they ever do go away. If you drive a hi performance car with p plates on it you will get pulled over, its just the way of the world.

As stated before its just more in along line of ammunition available to police. It still down to discretion in the end.

[djr81]

Well shoud the penalty for murder be varied depending how expensive the gun was that used? If it's a $500 Gemini or a Ferrari Enzo... break the hoon law repeatedly and face the consiquences.

My point is that the consequence (ie how much it will cost) varies enormously depending on the car the person is in. A bit like (to use your analogy) the government saying you should get more years for murder if you use an expensive gun. In other words, a nonsense.

To be clear I have never done a burnout in my life. I completely fail to understand the attraction. But at the end of the day it is not much more than a public nuisance & a long way from the safety menace it is portayed to be. The sort of vilification of people who like cars (seen as the same sort as dickheads doing burnouts & drifting on public roads) does nothing to promote road safety. It simply serves to reinforce the natural disdain that people (particularly young people) have of the sort of authoritarian @#$%wits like Grant Dorrington & the rubbish they spout. Which in turn makes it less likely they will listen to ANY of the safety messages being put about.

[Boostzor]

I gotta agree with the tendency lose respect for law when they start with crap like this. Same deal with speed cameras.

However, 3 offenses in 5 years!!!!!! these are just the times you get caught so how many times have you done this and not been caught? getting a 3rd offense is rare and the punishment is very well deserved in my opinion regardless of other consquences.

oh and that murder analogy blows, bigtime.

[GODTHRILA]

Gotta agree there... the law is the be all and end all, and don't they know it. They can be a/holes, and there is nothing worse than a rookie cop on a power trip... (moons ago I was yellowed after going over the pits only 2 weeks previous and I had not changed a thing since).

I think you got it in one Shaun... it would be nice to see the age of everyone on here and I bet the biggest complaints would be coming from the younger drivers that seem to attract more attention and therefore rack up the most yellows and infringements. Nothing against young import drivers... I was one when I just got my licence, but hopefully with age most of us mature as drivers and keep the hooning to the track and our licences intact.

The saying "if your doing the right thing you have nothing to worry about" reins supreme... you might not like or agree with some of the laws, but if you do the right thing, they shouldn't effect you.

[Mr. Keets]

Well shoud the penalty for murder be varied depending how expensive the gun was that used? If it's a $500 Gemini or a Ferrari Enzo... break the hoon law repeatedly and face the consiquences.

From memory Sweeden has proportional fines for speeding. A year ago a CEO of their biggest telco got busted in a modded Porsche and it cost him over $150K

The saying "if your doing the right thing you have nothing to worry about" reins supreme... you might not like or agree with some of the laws, but if you do the right thing, they shouldn't effect you.

Not supreme but close..ish. The law reflects what is socially acceptable, we find robbery with menace harrowing and unnecsesarilly violent as comparted to corporate crime. The corporate criminal will do less time than the violent criminal and so the penalties reflect what we think is acceptable or more accurately "less unaccpetable"....anyone think losing your car for a burnout acceptable??? It all depends on what we think is acceptable, steal something in some Muslim countries and your losing a hand under Shariea law. Is the crime rate low for thieving...damn straight it is. But at what cost to liberty.

You are all right, debates like this is how we as a society decide what is just and the vast majority of "enthusiasts" would consider the penalties for hooning unjust at their extreme.

[Tofu]

I have had this argument time and time again with people from all positions in society. Does society see us, the "enthusiast" as a menace and a threat? to simply put it yes. When I ask how they came to this conclusion in every instance it revolved back to the medias stance on what the hoon is.

The penalties reflect the nature of crime. Sure they are a little steep but it is still acceptable. You get three chances only in Australia will you get that. Besides the world will keeps spinning...unless you're emo.

I drive my skyline on the weekend and I find that I am profiled. I am more concerned with how the police profile the "hoon". For example, Last weekend I was pulled over for "random license and vehicle inspection" three times. They even started asking unrelated questions that I did not answer but thats another story.

If you want to be a tool on the road why not just take it to barb's or the plex?

Cheers,

Andrew

[PHATR32]

BINS RUNS FTW!