R33 Rb30 Conversion

[StockyMcStock]

did any of you guys have this problem on your 30DET?

i just put my cam belt on and tensioned her up, the bottom tensioner stud doesn't sit on a flat machined surface because it's moved across as per the way everyone else has done it. because of this, when you tension the belt up it flexes the stud and the idler doesn't sit straight. it's enough to make the belt run off to one side and will probably destroy it after a while, not good!

what did you guys do about this problem? the stud has to sit on a flat surface because the pulley idler needs to clamp down on hard onto the surface to stop it bending one way or the other.

anyone else find this?

[Cubes]

I think I know what you are talking about.

If you have a block with the attached pic you will have issues mounting the lower tensioner.

My block has a machined flat surface in this location, from what i've seen at u-pullit all the R31 rb30 blocks have the machined flat surface and also have the oil feed/returns.

Only way around it would be to mount the tensioner location opposite as to what it usually is. Speak to some one about it as I'm unsure if doing so would cause any issues.

I will get around to including this in the guide as soon as I finish this damn PHP assignment.

Edited September 18, 2005 by Cubes

[StockyMcStock]

jesus h christ, will this goddam engine ever be built? it's a series one block from a VL and i bet you that the series 2 blocks have the flat area machined as well, same as the R31 block. sweet jesus this is starting to piss me off something chronic, i really should have started with a series 2 block

that pic shows exactly what i'm talking about. i've already drilled and tapped the tensioner hole. i'm thinking of bulking it up with a few big spots of weld or even tapping in a stud there so that the edge of the tensioner's base can be held at the right level. it only needs one point of bracing, to stop it from flexing away to the side and ramping the belt off. a big blob of weld there and then angle grinding it flat should do the trick i think...... i hope

Edited September 18, 2005 by StockyMcStock

[Cubes]

I've seen a VL series 2 block that didn't have the machined area.

It may have blown a motor at some time and had a series1 motor dropped in to it.

Look in to reverse locating the tensioner..

I'm sure you know what I mean.

Edited September 18, 2005 by Cubes

[StockyMcStock]

i know what you mean, but i'll look into the above idea first. if it's not possible i'll have to block the present hole off into the water gallery and do it again

[joe2548]

hey all, just finished reading the 141 pages....took me a good week, great stuff keep it up.

In regards to reversing the location of the tensioner and idler (tensioner on right when looking at eng front) i think this would cause premature belt wear, there should only be 1 tensioner, this tensioner should be on the non driving side to pull up the slack. The driving side will obviously never have slop.

it should be ok if u dont use the spring on the right side, as many ppl do.

[joe2548]

My planned engine; (to go in vl....i wish i still had my 33)

stock rb30e bottom

stock rb25det head,inlet,exhaust,inj,turb

i would like to have ~250rwkw can it be done with stock t03? or will i need a t03 highflow?

will the injectors cope with this?

i need a computer and loom, do i keep standard r33 comp&loom?, or do i go aftermarket?(keeping in mind id need something that drives the 33 coilpacks, and i dont really wanna spend much- i have no idea wat ems costs run into)

wat sort of economy should i get(petrol prices are pretty high these days)?

I havent seen any really detailed information on running the vct oil feed?(most of u say externally, some say its poss internally, can anyone post up some pics of where they drilled the block and head for this? where do u get the fittings and pipes from and what size)

thanks.

Edited September 20, 2005 by joe2548

[Cubes]

Joe,

From factory RB's have an idler and tensioner. The tensioner is a locking tensioner so it could be considered an adjustable idler.

So with regards to premature belt wear it won't make any difference providing you don't overtighten.

Does that sound right?

Edited September 19, 2005 by Cubes

[joe2548]

yea ur right on the money cubes.. i thought mayb ppl were using it as a spring loaded tensioner...

anyone got time to answer my rb30det questions...thx

Edited September 19, 2005 by joe2548

[platinum]

i would like to have ~250rwkw can it be done with stock t03? or will i need a t03 highflow?

will the injectors cope with this?

You'll most likely need something reasonably large - a "good" highflow should be able to provide that sort of power though. Injectors will need replacing at that sort of power I would expect (if they are the stock RB25 ones).

i need a computer and loom, do i keep standard r33 comp&loom?, or do i go aftermarket?(keeping in mind id need something that drives the 33 coilpacks, and i dont really wanna spend much- i have no idea wat ems costs run into)

PowerFC's are good value, will plug directly into the stock standard loom and work fine with the standard coilpacks - I just got one through a group buy here for $960.00

I havent seen any really detailed information on running the vct oil feed?(most of u say externally, some say its poss internally, can anyone post up some pics of where they drilled the block and head for this? where do u get the fittings and pipes from and what size)

I'm just having a bit of brass piping around the outside of the engine put in, I'm just getting it done through the engineer building my engine, but someone can probably give you exact specs.

[StockyMcStock]

Okay i think i have the VCT problem sorted. Here goes:

Looking from the front of the engine, there are two oil holes for the front cam bearing. The one on the left is connected to the high pressure oil feed which normally comes in from the VCT oil line in the block. Since it's now welded up, that feed is not getting any oil whatsoever. This feed is definately NOT connected to the high-pressure feed rail which supplies all the lifters on the inlet side. I thought it was, but on closer inspection it is definately not. The front cam bearing relies on this block feed to supply it with oil and not sieze.

The second hole (on the right) is connected to the first hole via the cam bearing face, which has a trench milled in it. This hole drains down into the head, to be later returned to the sump by whichever means possible. It only does this when the VCT solenoid is powered OFF. When it is energized, the solenoid blocks this drain and high pressure oil is forced into the end of the cam where the VCT gizmo is located which then activates it.

So what does this mean? It means if you don't re-feed the first oil supply then your bearing will run dry and probably sieze. The good news is there is an easier way out of it than an external line.

looking at the head front-on, there's a small copper plug just below the solenoid which the manufacturers used to block off a hole that they drilled in there to connect the oil galleries up due to a small offset. The plug can be drilled out pretty easily. Luckily, it's directly in line with the high pressure gallery which feeds all of the lifters! So just drill a hole of comparable size to the oil supply hole through there to connect it up to the high pressure gallery and feed it with oil.

There's one more problem though, doing this will drop the oil pressure to that gallery dramatically whenever the VCT solenoid is off. NOT GOOD! you can grub screw up the oil drain but this will turn the VCT solenoid on the whole time, also not good! What you will need to do is either replace the inlet cam gear with a non-VCT one or block up the oil holes IN THE CAMSHAFT ITSELF which allow the oil into the front of the cam. This will stop oil getting to the VCT lobe altogether.

I'm going to go out now and pull the gear apart and see if there's an easy way to disable it from the inside. otherwise i'm going to get a non-VCT inlet cam gear. I think this idea is a lot neater, easier and cheaper than making up an external line from somewhere else to supply the VCT again.

So yeah, don't try and run an RB30DET with the VCT gallery just welded up, you need to get oil there somehow!

p.s. Luke thanks for telling me this, i went over the whole thing again and figured out you were right. lucky bastard. 

   

Okay i just did all this and it will work just fine. drill out the brass plug just below the cam, then insert grub screws into each of the holes in the bearing supply face. Drill a restrictor through the one which now supplies oil (same size as the other ones in the cam tunnel) and leave the other one blank.

There is an easy way of disabling the VCT too, just take the big bolt out of the end of the cam and weld a plug in to one end of it.

Viola, no VCT and a nice high pressure oil supply to the cam bearing. 

EDIT: cubes i just tapped another hole up on the top face of the block and relocated the bottom tensioner up there. looks the goods and works perfectly. i'll try and get some pics for you to put in the 30DET guide in case anyone else starts the conversion with the same block that i had.

Edited September 20, 2005 by StockyMcStock

[Cubes]

Excellent.. pics are good.

Any oil/water galleys to worry about on the opposite side of the block?

For ppls doing this conversion in the R32/R33's.

With regards to gear ratios.

If I rev mine past 5000rpm I end up going slower is it drops the next gear in to less torque and instead of power gaining it is dropping as the car accelerates through the whole of that gear.

By changing at 5000rpm compared to slightly before 5500rpm I gain .5 of a sec to 100km/h.

Changes at 5000rpm are optimal for myself, which sucks.

All at 5000rpm

1st - 42km/h

2nd - 71km/h

3rd - 105km/h

4th - 136km/h

So yer.. the stock turbo on the rb30det in an r32 sucks.

[StockyMcStock]

lol i still can't believe you've got the stock turbo on there, it's way out of its league

it should be pulling hard right to 6500 where the cams start to nose off, if not then you have the wrong turbo for sure. but you already know this, just need money for a bigger one. i know how it feels......

where i put the tensioner there is nothing to worry about, i figured i could use the bottom left tensioner but the top one would have to be tapped straight into the number 1 exhaust head bolt - not good! so i used the top left (new) tensioner location and put one across the other side as well. i'll try and arrange a camera to show you. the pulley will come very close to the power steering bracket and the cam cover can't be used without cutting but it will work fine.

[joe2548]

thanks platinum,

has anyone used standard r33 comp+injectors, does it run ok, or will i definently need to go aftermarket...(dont want to as saving money for uni next year)

also wat injectors can be run off the standard computer?(i assume only standard inj, or can they run s15 or gtr injectors?)

sounds like id be wasting my time with a stock turb, so ill definently go bigger.

anyone with more exact info on the external oil feed? - i dont want to disable vct.

[Cubes]

One bloke did right at the beginning.

He did say it require something like 20degree's cas timing to get it going. I assume this to be so as the stock ecu ign. map was setup around the 9:1 comp ratio. RB30DET being 8.3:1 obviously requires a little more ignition timing.

It will definitely run on the rb25det ecu, from memory he made ~200rwkw on 11psi or something. More than the rb25 made with no power dips, which was strange.

The Rb25DET turbo is slightly bigger than the rb20det turbo, it doesn't restrict top end as much. Its still very fun to drive and rather quick.

Edited September 20, 2005 by Cubes

[MonstaS4]

......anyone with more exact info on the external oil feed? - i dont want to disable vct.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Check out this thread over at calaisturbo.com. Should have all the info you need.

[joe2548]

thanks

[StockyMcStock]

[Scribble]

Looking good StockyMcStock

Quick question about the oil tapping AGAIN!

is the tap a tapered or parallel? i have both here right now.

Thanks for your time and keep up the good work,

Scribble

[StockyMcStock]

the oil return? i used a normal untapered tap but the piece i screwed in there (3/4 BSP) is tapered so it locks in snugly.

btw turbo is a GT40 1.34 A/R turbine. will post some pics of it with the manifold on when it's completed.