R33 Rb30 Conversion

[Scooby]

Ive been told the block is weaker then rb26's. What can i do to strengthen it? Resin fill? Can someone shed some more light on this?

cheers

i've never heard of an RB30 block breaking where an RB26 would've held together. anyone?

[Adriano]

I had my crank cryogenically treated, about $3-400. Basically you end up with the same effect as nitriding, but ti goes all the way through the material instead of just the first few thou

[GTRgeoff]

I have a lot of reservations about the benefits of cryo treatment. I will say that cryo is absolutely not similar to nitriding.

Let me put it this way. I'm a mechanical engineer. We are often referred to as metallurgists but don't have the same core learning. We do have a hell of a lot of background for obvious interests. What I do know is that steels obtain different strength properties through alloying, heat treatment and working (or forging processes). Recent developments have been through HSLAs or high strength low alloy steels which use significant working to achieve low weight and high strength for say car panels.

Some heat treatments and quenching rates produces certain grain structures. Every steel alloy has a certain TTT diagram (time temperature transformation). So through trial and error I can achieve a certain grain structure through heating and cooling, then cutting and testing and micrographing the grain structure.

The suggestion is that through super cooling you can achieve homogeneous refinement of grain structure, something only achievable through HSLA processes. Think of the production of a Samurai blade through hundreds of folds of the steel. Surface treatment though is an attempt to strengthen the surface region through alloying and particulate precipitation to prevent crack growth propagation. A lot like linishing, polishing and shot peening but less labour intensive. The intent is to prevent crack propagation and induce strength with toughness, not brittleness. Super cooling sets a condition where the steel is extremely brittle, strength properties are reduced and molecular bonding and interaction is reduced. I know of no temperature transition in steel where anything can occur as in say tin (where in the Napoleonic wars the soldiers tin button basically fell to dust in the cold due to a temperature transform an molecular bond loss).

I have zero belief that cryo treatment produces anything except dollars from a pocket.

This is all of course very brief but I could go on in detail, however the fact remains that no real evidence exists of the value of cryo. I am a big believer in technology and handled hundreds of M of technology projects in acquiring and improving weapons systems. If it works better I will embrace it but I cannot accept cryo in any respect as yet.

[Adriano]

I was under the impression that the cryo cooling was used in conjunction with prior heat treating to prolong the cooling process?

[GTRgeoff]

There are a number of procedures that can be used, although thermal shock is a major consideration so cooling rates need to be carefully controlled. In fact after forging or machining residual stress failure is not unheard of in cryo treatment.

I do understand that there is a strong recommendation for a post cryo tempering process, but that is a standard consideration for post treatment of certain products regardless of cryo treatment.

[Al]

Sydneykid you have a PM regarding the following.

Ok, today my engine was fitted into the engine bay and just as Roy advised the HE sump hits my Whiteline sway bar .

So does anyone know where i could get a similar sway bar to the Whiteline item, that will clear the sump, with the same tension adjustable holes?

[Alf]

Sydneykid you have a PM regarding the following.

Ok, today my engine was fitted into the engine bay and just as Roy advised the HE sump hits my Whiteline sway bar .

So does anyone know where i could get a similar sway bar to the Whiteline item, that will clear the sump, with the same tension adjustable holes?

If you get the chance could you take a pic, would like to see how much extra clearance you need.

[Al]

By the time i go back to the w/shop the sway bar will be off the car, mechanic may take pics to "shove in HE's face" as they assured him it bolts straight on with no problems.

Basically the bar hits about 1.5" from the front of the sump, if the diagonal/vertical arms were about 2" long it should bolt on without a problem.

[Cubes]

So does anyone know where i could get a similar sway bar to the Whiteline item, that will clear the sump, with the same tension adjustable holes?

How much is it out by? Have you considered cutting up some plate and spacing the chassis mounts down slightly?

[Roy]

Sydneykid you have a PM regarding the following.

Ok, today my engine was fitted into the engine bay and just as Roy advised the HE sump hits my Whiteline sway bar .

So does anyone know where i could get a similar sway bar to the Whiteline item, that will clear the sump, with the same tension adjustable holes?

Shit Al, sorry to read but i was almsot positive you were going to have troubles. Hopefully SK has come accross something similar with their R33 and can help

[R32Abuser]

Im in the process of doing the 30 conversion in a 32. Now whilst im working on the engine, i figure i may aswell upgrade the box first as this will not affect much. Im obviously going to a 25 Box as everyone generally has here for a 32 conversion.

My question is, when im going the 25 box obviously if i just change this, my speedo will be out and then i will have to do the navara speedo cable job. If i were to just change the diff for a 25 GTST diff would this not correct my speedo problem? I.e. if i change the box and diff to both 25 options, then my speedo will be spot on? This will also change the characteristics of the 20 (whilst its in there) and the 30 making it a bit more sluggish due to the taller final ratio...so would this be advisable for the 30? should i just leave the 20 diff in there? Im guessing aswell the taller final ratio will make traction easier aswell...

Iv read the guide and the WHOLE thread im just looking for opinions etc.

Also any ECU's that people can recommend would be great...PFC isnt that much of an option due to the rarity in 32's. Microtech, etc etc (How much, ease of use etc etc)

Anyone thoughts/opinions/experiences would be greatly appreciated (Cubes, Darren etc! )

[Cubes]

I wouldn't be concerned of the speedo read out difference. It really is bugger all. I sat next to a new honda with a digital dash read out and the speedo dash was spot on. The PFC H/C was slightly out by ~3km/h.

With regards to the diff ratio and traction it really depends on how much power the car is making and tyres/size your running.

I had the 4.08:1 ratio with around 200rwkw. It felt like the car lost so much of its sportiness and brute acceleration in the lower gears that the first weekend I had off I had the 4.363:1 ratio back in.

However. With more power when traction becomes a problem it may be worth while. I'm about to drop the 4.08:1 back in to see how I like it with ~270rwkw BUT first I'm throwing a set of decent rims at the car and fitting a pair of 255/40 17's on the rear to see how that helps. If I can get almost all of second gear down I'll stick with the 4.3:1.

At the moment with ok 225/50/16's (that hook up better than 245/40/18's Nankang NS2's) it doesn't have a hint of grip in first or second gear. Third will often spin up if it hits a white line, slight bump or I accelerate on a light bend.

Fingers crossed a set of decent 255's in 17" hook up fairly well.

I'd say do the gearbox; wait on the diff ratio and see how the package works.

I recommend the RB26 PFC.

[Al]

How much is it out by? Have you considered cutting up some plate and spacing the chassis mounts down slightly?

Due to Troy's warning we took the precaution and dropped the mounts off the chassis, the sway bar only dropped about 1.5", as it rested on the K-frame. The sump still hit the bar.

Basically the diagonally-vertical sections of the sway bar (near the sump) need to be extended about 2", so the bar folds up at the front of the sump.

[mr_rbman]

I wouldn't be concerned of the speedo read out difference. It really is bugger all. I sat next to a new honda with a digital dash read out and the speedo dash was spot on. The PFC H/C was slightly out by ~3km/h.

With regards to the diff ratio and traction it really depends on how much power the car is making and tyres/size your running.

I had the 4.08:1 ratio with around 200rwkw. It felt like the car lost so much of its sportiness and brute acceleration in the lower gears that the first weekend I had off I had the 4.363:1 ratio back in.

However. With more power when traction becomes a problem it may be worth while. I'm about to drop the 4.08:1 back in to see how I like it with ~270rwkw BUT first I'm throwing a set of decent rims at the car and fitting a pair of 255/40 17's on the rear to see how that helps. If I can get almost all of second gear down I'll stick with the 4.3:1.

At the moment with ok 225/50/16's (that hook up better than 245/40/18's Nankang NS2's) it doesn't have a hint of grip in first or second gear. Third will often spin up if it hits a white line, slight bump or I accelerate on a light bend.

Fingers crossed a set of decent 255's in 17" hook up fairly well.

I'd say do the gearbox; wait on the diff ratio and see how the package works.

I recommend the RB26 PFC.

joel, go for some 45 profiles, biggger sidewall will help with traction.

[Roy]

Due to Troy's warning we took the precaution and dropped the mounts off the chassis, the sway bar only dropped about 1.5", as it rested on the K-frame. The sump still hit the bar.

Basically the diagonally-vertical sections of the sway bar (near the sump) need to be extended about 2", so the bar folds up at the front of the sump.

Maybe a cut and shit of the swaybar will be easiest? Just make sure you put a proper J or V prep on the bar, use a bit of round bar in the guts and do 4 welds . Not ideal but????

[Al]

For the stuff i "plan" to do, i'd rather get a custom one made. I have since heard it costs about $250-$300 from Whiteline, not sure how accurate that figure is till i call them. But i am still open to other options/suppliers.

IF the sway bar does not arrive in time for the F1, is it reasonably safe to carefully drive the car to Albert Park, without a sway bar fitted, as i plan to put it on display?

[GTRgeoff]

Al, custom will be pretty easy and those prices sound about right. I had a 30mm made for my Lynx (FWD) to make it an awesome rear slider. They refused to warranty that size though and after 6 months started to rip the rear subframe apart.

You can drive normally without the front bar but try not to corner hard as the rear would be very skatey.

[GT-RZ]

i was talking to an engine builder today who said my original plans of building an engine with 9-1cr with a gt35r is not a very good idea. said i won't be able to put much boost through it. reckons if i want more response go with a gt30r... recommends 8-5cr

he also said it's pointless going for forged pistons as they only help with the load the engine gets from revs (lighter, friction etc), and if i'm keeping hydraulic lifters the engine would never be able to go past 8k anyway (even though i was planning to cap it at 7k...)

recommended high pressure cast pistons, prepped rods, 8-5cr and turbo depending on what i want the car for. for response gt30r is better than a gt35r unless i want more power...

i know the question has arisen before but how much power do the stock rods take? i'v read a few different replies now. some said 500rwkw and someone else said 300rwkw? anyone know for sure?

ideas?

Edited February 4, 2008 by GT-RZ

[Sydneykid]

Sydneykid you have a PM regarding the following.

Ok, today my engine was fitted into the engine bay and just as Roy advised the HE sump hits my Whiteline sway bar .

So does anyone know where i could get a similar sway bar to the Whiteline item, that will clear the sump, with the same tension adjustable holes?

We make "special" swaybars, under the Selbys Swaybars brand name everyday for all sorts of applications. The HE sump into R32/33 is very common and I made a master (to copy) for them a couple of years ago. R33Racer's car runs one as well as my own R32GTST, plus quite a few more. I made one for Giant's GTR (that they used at Tsukuba) that clears the larger (Performance Metalcraft) sump as well as a dry sump pump. I also designed one for Mercury Motorsport for the RB25 into S13 conversion and we do Stewart Wilkin's and MadDats SR20DE and SR20DET into 1600 and 1200 swaybar conversions. Last week I finished a new design to clear a Trust sump on an SR20DET in a 1600.

So PM me, of course for SAU guys the prices are at Group Buy level and turn around is 2 days from order.

Cheers

Gary

[proengines]

i was talking to an engine builder today who said my original plans of building an engine with 9-1cr with a gt35r is not a very good idea. said i won't be able to put much boost through it. reckons if i want more response go with a gt30r... recommends 8-5cr

he also said it's pointless going for forged pistons as they only help with the load the engine gets from revs (lighter, friction etc), and if i'm keeping hydraulic lifters the engine would never be able to go past 8k anyway (even though i was planning to cap it at 7k...)

recommended high pressure cast pistons, prepped rods, 8-5cr and turbo depending on what i want the car for. for response gt30r is better than a gt35r unless i want more power...

i know the question has arisen before but how much power do the stock rods take? i'v read a few different replies now. some said 500rwkw and someone else said 300rwkw? anyone know for sure?

ideas?

9:1 is a nice compression, you will need to knock some ignition timing out with higher boost. If you are planning to run higher boost all the time go low to mid 8's:1. One I did recently is running 20lb boost at 9:1 with no problem, makes around 360rwkw and oodles of torque, it does have some timing knocked out when it comes on boost. It's running a 35/40 with a 1.06 rear housing and makes boost at 3000 or so. It's very driveable. If you're only after 300 or so go for the smaller turbo.

Use forged pistons, anything cast will break a lot more quickly with any detonation, forged pistons give a little insurance against a bad tank of fuel, it doesn't need to be revving high to break ring lands. Most forged pistons also come with a steel top ring which is a bonus. Talk to Brad at Spool imports about a set of rods. Dont bother using the standard rods for the price he sells H-beams for, they are a very nice rod. Prepping a set of standard rods will cost you almost as much and they are still used rods that have been stretched and compressed a million times.