R33 Rb30 Conversion

[platinum]

ah woops, bit slow on the uptake

also meant xr8, not xr6. Maybe I'll just shut up now.... lol

[FORZA-MOTORSPORT]

Ok yer not bad at all, i will try getting my hands on a BOSS XR8 GT SCOOP, and ill post some pics when i dummy it up.

[Craved]

fatz used a fibreglass xr bump on the rb30e silvia he has, maybe he can give you a contact to get that for the car..

[Cubes]

Ok yer not bad at all, i will try getting my hands on a BOSS XR8 GT SCOOP, and ill post some pics when i dummy it up.

lol.. can't wait until I see this.

[FORZA-MOTORSPORT]

lol.. can't wait until I see this.

LOL neither can i ill let you know when i get my hands on a scoop cubes and you can come have a look ill try getting both a monaro one and xr8 gt see which ones looks better

[Craved]

for the cost of the bulge/scoop and painting your bonnet, you might be better off spending a little more to get a front facing plenum and keep the car looking more standard ..

plus the XR bulge probably wont be wide enough at the front where you need it.

monaro nostrils look funneh

[CruiseLiner]

im planning on building a cheap rb30/26 for daily use in my stagea as the jun stroker is going to be put into another car in the near future, so i thought with 1690kg the extra capacity will help, im only wanting under 400hp at the absolute maximum. im going to use stock rods and pistons in the 30 bottom end as they should last with that power pretty well i'd imagine?

so i am after some details on prices..

anyone know the going rate of freshening a stock rb30 bottom end, with no labour costs as ill do it all myself.

how much are stock rings and stock bearings worth?

i know machining costs roughly, but it there anything else needed on the bottom end to handle 400hp at wheels max? i can just reuse the stock water and oil pumps? is the crank collar worth doin for under 400hp? i have a stock gtr oil pump and stock gtr water pump are these better options to use?

this is using a stock 26 head too. not sure on turbo/s setup yet but most likely a small single turbo will be a better option, something like a gt35r on a cheap manifold to cut costs ive got a power fc djetro to run it and some other bits and pieces so it shouldnt end up costing too much in the end i hope. oh ill also need a 4wd sump adaptor to suit which are around $700 from memory???

cheers

Edited June 28, 2006 by CruiseLiner

[Bl4cK32]

lol...small single and gt35r, and cheap dont belong in the same sentence.

From memory a hone, with new bearings and rings was about $900 odd, so add cost of the pistons it was under 2k easy for a freshen up on a motor. If stock bearings are about the same as afttermarket id use aftermarket. (king race ones Cubes and myself used)

we had the motor balanced which is always worth it imho. 32gtr oil will fit, std rb30 water pumps are $80 new...get a newie. I dont run a crank collar, but dont take my car on the track or rev it for extended periods and its fine.

[Sydneykid]

im planning on building a cheap rb30/26 for daily use in my stagea as the jun stroker is going to be put into another car in the near future, so i thought with 1690kg the extra capacity will help, im only wanting under 400hp at the absolute maximum. im going to use stock rods and pistons in the 30 bottom end as they should last with that power pretty well i'd imagine?

so i am after some details on prices..

anyone know the going rate of freshening a stock rb30 bottom end, with no labour costs as ill do it all myself.

how much are stock rings and stock bearings worth?

i know machining costs roughly, but it there anything else needed on the bottom end to handle 400hp at wheels max? i can just reuse the stock water and oil pumps? is the crank collar worth doin for under 400hp? i have a stock gtr oil pump and stock gtr water pump are these better options to use?

this is using a stock 26 head too. not sure on turbo/s setup yet but most likely a small single turbo will be a better option, something like a gt35r on a cheap manifold to cut costs ive got a power fc djetro to run it and some other bits and pieces so it shouldnt end up costing too much in the end i hope. oh ill also need a 4wd sump adaptor to suit which are around $700 from memory???

cheers

Ooooh, a Stagea with an RB30DET in it, now that will be interesting. It costs about $1,200 to properly rebuild an RB30 bottom end using the standard parts. That incudes decent bearings (ACL) rings and seals, balancing the up & down and round & round bits, decking and o'ringing the block, new water pump, cam belt etc. A crank collar for $150 is a good idea so you can run a later (wide flange) oil pump. The 4wd sump adaptor ($500) and oil pick up relocation is a full day fitting, it's a tricky time consuming job.

The difficult part is knowing when to stop. There are lots of temptations, ARP rod bolts, ARP head studs, ARP main bearing studs, forged pistons, forged rods........................ooops there goes another $5K.

We have done over 30 RB30's for other people and I have built 3 for myself and with each one I kept adding a few more upgrades. After all it's only $few hundred, might as well while its apart, saves pulling the engine and doing it later etc etc. Before you know it you have another $big race engine on your hands.

So if I can give one tip only, set your targets ($ and BHP) and stick to them.

cheers

[CruiseLiner]

hey gary thanks for the input mate im honestly not going to push the 30 at all above 400hp and probably only want around 350hp for fulltime daily use as the jun stroker is worth too much and i cant bear to leave it unattended anywhere as the engine is worth a damn site more than the car itself and insurance dont want to insure it for more than 40k all up which is annoying for me. i want to leave the stagea in carparks and know i havent spent a fortune and that i wont lose much money if its stolen.

other issue is anything over 400hp with a rb30 especially is gonna munch gtr gearboxes like no tommorow with the 1690kg weight.

i am even considering stock gtr turbos but just the lack of working room and twin exhuasts is a pain in the arse, plus the ceramic wheels are not my favourite idea so if i can pick up a smallish turbo like a gt35r or something for $1200 or so than it will be alot cheaper than using aftermarket twin low mounts.

i want the car to drive smoothly, with an easy clutch (single plate because i hate the damn rattling of my twin plate) and a really really quiet exhuast with about 3 mufflers for total silence

i want a really cheap as i can engine for my minimal power target no forgies, no rod bolts, no fancy stuff i dont need is the aim. the other engine i have is as crazy as i ever wanna go and if i get bored of that i can always stick my other head on the 30 with 272 cams, hks t04z, etc etc etc.

so heres my list so far:

rb26 head

rb30 bottom end

bearings

rings

gaskets

honing

balancing

water pump (can i use my rb26 one i have sitting in the shed? it is in perfect condition and from a low km engine)

cam belt

crank collar (is this really needed for such a low power target, and the fact it wont go on the track/drags???)

sump adaptor

tensioner?

rb26 head bolts or do i use the 30 ones?

single plate clutch

exhuast manifold (cheap china one)

single turbo (i dont want a laggy one, so a gt30 or 35r)

power fc djetro (already have it sitting in my room)

injectors

cooler (hybrid or stock gtr one)

cooler piping

rb26 or rb30 oil pump???

o ringing block i dont think is needed at all?

anything else im forgetting?

i might do what sky30 has done and chuck in a stock rb30 bottom end (untouched) and run it till it blows, as $1200 for a rebuild is worth the risk as i can rip the engine out myself and rebuild with $0 labour later so its only time for me.

will a gt3040r or something be abit small on the 30? i dont want it to pull hard down low and then die off at 5000rpm because the turbo is too small.

i can get hold of a complete rb26 head with plenum for $900-$1000 from a mate which will be alot cheaper than others i have seen.

so only custom mods are changing the head bolt threads to suit the bigger rb26 ones (is this needed for the power i want?), install a tensioner on the front for the extra deck height, external oil feed and retapping the top gearbox bolts or is it the bottom ones? and thats about all i think?

cheers

Brad

[NosDan]

you wont need the external oil feed for a GTR head, thats only R33 gts/gtst heads. and its the bottom g-box mounts that need redrilling/sloting

[Cubes]

Cruiseliner,

Here's a dyno chart of an rb30 vs the rb25 running a gt3040 .82. I believe it was running 1bar.

It doesn't appear to die off too badly but obviously won't be flicking to 7500rpm.

[Sydneykid]

Use all the RB26 spare stuff you have lying around.

Best to drill and tap the block for the RB26 head bolts as the holes in the head are 11 mm (RB30 is 10mm) so the head would float 1/2 mm around the bolts.

We are up to 650 bhp using an RB30 and a GTR box, so 475 bhp (300 rwkw) is a doddle.

Use the standard RB26 injectors and push the fuel pressure 8 psi (44 psi + boost), no problems.

For $150 for a crank collar, I would always run a wide flange oil pump.

Stock R32GTR intercooler = no problems

Use a GT3040 (1.06 turbine A/R and 0.70 compressor), keep the boost under 1 bar, the A/F ratios around 11.5, no more than 7,000 rpm and ZERO knock. It will last forever.

cheers

Edited June 29, 2006 by Sydneykid

[NosDan]

Best to drill and tap the block for the RB26 head bolts as the holes in the head are 11 mm (RB30 is 10mm) so the head would float 1/2 mm around the bolts.

We are up to 650 bhp using an RB30 and a GTR box, so 475 bhp (300 rwkw) is a doddle.

dosent the head locate its self on the dowls? so the GTR bolts would only be more resistant to stretch?

and im assuming 650bhp (480kw) is power at all 4? if so.... nice... strong boxes

[CruiseLiner]

hey cubes that graph definately shows the true goodness of the extra capacity in all its glory

just what im after for the stagea, a nice smooth power delivery without having to drop back 2 gears to putt around the local streets at 50kmh like with my 26

so what oil pump do u reccomend for the wide flange crank collar? a second hand r33 gtr one or what?

remember im on a tight tight budget

using gtr injectors will save some cash too, and i suppose ill need a nismo regulator and twin feeds on the stock fuel rail?

what sort of single plate clutch would be suitable and how much are they roughly? i dont want one thats a pain in the arse to drive around in traffic and i want a nice light pedal feel if possible

this is lookin like a bargain setup compared to the jun stuff, damn i wish i found out about the rb30s before i spent all my cash on the other setup

im going to build this engine on the side while the stagea is still runnin the rb27 and then rip the 27 out and put the 30 in once ive finished, and then the 27 can go into a rwd drift car or drag setup car to run some real numbers.

is it wise to use second hand rb26 head bolts from my old engine setup (low km's) or should i buy new ones? are they expensive to buy brand new?

now i just gotta work some weekends to fund the little sucker

thanks again everyone for the help, im sure ill have plenty more questions in the near future

Edited June 29, 2006 by CruiseLiner

[Bl4cK32]

if u use the wider flange drive its a r33 gtr oil pump u use.

dont need twin feed fuel rail...

[CruiseLiner]

can the crank collar be installed with the crank still on the engine? or does the crank need machining first?

[Cubes]

can the crank collar be installed with the crank still on the engine? or does the crank need machining first?

Unfortunately it has to be done prior to assembly.

After that, use which ever oil pump you want, except for the rb30 item.

[discopotato03]

Hi Cruize , will definitely be watching your progress on the mild Masey Furgeson RB30/26 . I also like the idea of smooth torquey power for road - but in an R32 . I'm going a bit further with pistons for CR reasons but probably stick with modified std rods (larger pin diametre) . It would save money to use the std cams so not sure about this ATM . I too am interested in what would make a good road car clutch as I don't want to spend dollars on twin plate rattlers either .

A turbo for the wagon is probably different to what you would use in a lighter car because its going to take a bit more torque to move it from no/low speeds in style . Gary has said that too low a boost threshold tends to make a car thirsty because of the extra fuel going down the holes to make safe torque when the manifold pressure goes positive . Where RB30 torque needs help from boost in a Stagea I'm not sure and trying to find the perfect turbo off the shelf is not easy . From what I see getting a turbo to boost over a wide engine speed range means the boost pressure itself is limited so as to not run out of exhaust or air flow .

GT3040R's are not hard to find and tend to be cheaper than GT30R's and GT3540R's plus there are usually 2nd hand ones floating around from people who try them and remove them from RB20's and RB25's . Not my No 1 choise but making hybrids of the above is a bit more expensive and the result is not guaranteed .

If I had to use a GT3040 it would be the HKS version because the compressor trim size is 50 rather than 56 and there's always the option of using the GT35 turbine and housing later if the exhaust side is a little choked up . If you could find one for sensible money 2nd hand it would be worth a look , make sure if you do that it has a T3 flanged turbine housing as well preferably in 1.01 or 1.12 AR ratio .

Cheers A .

[Cubes]

Disco,

I run a 1 tonne 9puk Extreem clutch, its very drivable has a really nice bite but is a tad heavy, not too heavy to get used but do bear in mind I am used to heavy clutches.

When I bought mine it was recommended by my old tuner (Tim Possingham) who had one in a 2JZ supra making a tad over 300rwkw, whatsisname also has one in his built rb25 making slightly under 300rwkw and they have both held up fine.

I've clocked 40,000km's on it and upon inspection last gearbox it still looks near new, the flywheel is looking a little hacked though, not suprising as the clutch is ceramic.

Quite impressed with it to be honest, if I were to replace it I would consider the lighter 800kg pressure plate. What I like about it most... The grab. Or there's always the Jim Berry clutch that every one raves about.

A downside of the heavy clutch is damage to the pedal box, they have a habbit of breaking the welds, touch wood there's no problems yet but once I feel the signs I will pull it out and weld it up before any major damage occurs.