R33 Rb30 Conversion

[rob82]

i thought the sards are 850cc? or are they 800's?

Weve half fitted the water/methanol injection and got a to4z on the way. haha all these threads and people going on about to4z's and how good they are, plus the figures seem to be there. So hopefully here comes 600bhp with no knock very very big smiles.

I tuned a GENIII the other day that had a T04Z on it made 320rwkw on about 1 pound of boost. I ran the car with no spring in the actuator to determine if the 50mm external gate was large enough, it was. Was really impressed to see that figure.

Also in regards to your traction problem - have you tryed TPS based boost control?

Edited September 26, 2006 by rob82

[r33_racer]

Also in regards to your traction problem - have you tryed TPS based boost control?

I believe i said this already mate

"Ive found so far that foot control and patience is a big thing. Flat to the floor doesnt always work as well as you might think."

In the process of learning that one mate, getting all the lead outta my boots

Why the sarcastic comments?

Edited September 26, 2006 by r33_racer

[rob82]

I believe i said this already mate

"Ive found so far that foot control and patience is a big thing. Flat to the floor doesnt always work as well as you might think."

In the process of learning that one mate, getting all the lead outta my boots

Why the sarcastic comments?

I wasn't being sarcastic.

[r33_racer]

so let me get this right. Your suggesting letting the turbo free spool with no spring control via the waste gate and controlling the boost/power purely by the pedal?

[rob82]

so let me get this right. Your suggesting letting the turbo free spool with no spring control via the waste gate and controlling the boost/power purely by the pedal?

No I was just testing wether a 50mm gate was large enough when fully opened to control that sized turbo all the way to the rev limit - and it was as it only ran about 1 psi of boost at the rev limiter. I was suprised though as it made 320rwkw about 120rwkw more than a standard car.

What boost controller are you using?

[Cubes]

TPS boost control would feel rather strange after being used to a turbo snapping on hard at part throttle. Would be quite a good idea. What EBC supports such a feature?

[r33_racer]

currently only the boost kit that comes with the powerfc. We are looking towards an autronic in the near future, how i came across your chips whilst going around old posts.

So current boost kit isnt that great.

[Rolls]

TPS boost control would feel rather strange after being used to a turbo snapping on hard at part throttle. Would be quite a good idea. What EBC supports such a feature?

Sounds like a really good idea, would make throttle control much easier.

[rob82]

MOTEC and AUTRONIC both have TPS based boost control. We use our xede to do TPS based and semi closed loop boost control on XR6T(as they need it). THe way it works is by nesting two 3d maps. ie 1 Map is a wastegate solenoid map with MAP and RPM being the axis. The other map being a straight multiplier table of the first map with TPS and RPM being the axis. So when you dont want boost you dial it out of the with the multipier table.

The problem with alot of EVC is that once they see a set amount of throttle on board say 20percent, they then aim for the desired boost.

[shanef]

traction...weve only got 500bhp atm and it doesnt exist. starts are shit, but when your moving its fine. Ive found so far that foot control and patience is a big thing. Flat to the floor doesnt always work as well as you might think.

But were still working it all out. It will get better.

Shane are you coming to the next track day on nov 28...cause i will be attending that, so if your there come and have a look at the car, or if your car is ready perhaps i can have a look at that

I should be there with the car, if the box doesnt break inbetween now and then . Sump goes on tomorrow (well thats the plan) and then off to the exhaust shop next week and then to get tuned. So 2 weeks should be all running sweet.

if you don't mind me asking what sort of cost were they??

and where'd ya get them from

$635 from greenline

[shanef]

MOTEC and AUTRONIC both have TPS based boost control. We use our xede to do TPS based and semi closed loop boost control on XR6T(as they need it). THe way it works is by nesting two 3d maps. ie 1 Map is a wastegate solenoid map with MAP and RPM being the axis. The other map being a straight multiplier table of the first map with TPS and RPM being the axis. So when you dont want boost you dial it out of the with the multipier table.

The problem with alot of EVC is that once they see a set amount of throttle on board say 20percent, they then aim for the desired boost.

When i was talking to matt spryr from PITS he actually said for a track car use the power fc. Main reason he said was it had the knock sensor, unlike the autronic.

[Adriano]

sm4 has knock sensor capability, it trims individual cylinder timing (only retards knocking cylinders)

[Adriano]

Unfortunately just because the boost was held at 1 psi doesn't mean the w/g is big enough, as it only has to bypass 320kw of exhaust gas to hold boost there, when the car starts making boost, there is heaps more exhaust gas for it to control.

No I was just testing wether a 50mm gate was large enough when fully opened to control that sized turbo all the way to the rev limit - and it was as it only ran about 1 psi of boost at the rev limiter. I was suprised though as it made 320rwkw about 120rwkw more than a standard car.

What boost controller are you using?

[rob82]

Unfortunately just because the boost was held at 1 psi doesn't mean the w/g is big enough, as it only has to bypass 320kw of exhaust gas to hold boost there, when the car starts making boost, there is heaps more exhaust gas for it to control.

True but we only want to run around 6psi - it just gave us an indication of where we are going. The customer originally had a small gate before changing to this one.

Edited September 26, 2006 by rob82

[Darkon]

$635 from greenline

thats awesome thanks heaps for that

now i just gotta get the pump sorted

[Sydneykid]

MOTEC and AUTRONIC both have TPS based boost control. We use our xede to do TPS based and semi closed loop boost control on XR6T(as they need it). THe way it works is by nesting two 3d maps. ie 1 Map is a wastegate solenoid map with MAP and RPM being the axis. The other map being a straight multiplier table of the first map with TPS and RPM being the axis. So when you dont want boost you dial it out of the with the multipier table.

How do you get over the kph difference with a multi ratio (5 speed / 6 speed) manual gearbox? Keeping in mind that aerodynamic drag rises with the square of speed, but the horsepower absorbed rises with the cube of speed.

A simple example;

The boost limit (power output) for 2nd gear, 50% throttle at say 80 kph would need to be entirely different to the boost limit (power output) for 4th gear at say 180 kph. But the rpm would be the same (similar).

cheers

[rob82]

How do you get over the kph difference with a multi ratio (5 speed / 6 speed) manual gearbox? Keeping in mind that aerodynamic drag rises with the square of speed, but the horsepower absorbed rises with the cube of speed.

A simple example;

The boost limit (power output) for 2nd gear, 50% throttle at say 80 kph would need to be entirely different to the boost limit (power output) for 4th gear at say 180 kph. But the rpm would be the same (similar).

cheers

Nest another table - that pulls the desired boost out w.r.t low values of VSS.

Edited September 27, 2006 by rob82

[SirRacer]

GCG used a 38mm tial for an rb30 with gt3566 producing more than 320kws at the wheels and it was fine

search for sydneykids thread re wastegate sizing. the rayglass datsun drag car 7.98 seconds uses a 40mm wastegate for your info

[Craved]

the wastegate sizing thread is in the quick reference guide sticky ..

[Sydneykid]

Nest another table - that pulls the desired boost out w.r.t low values of VSS.

That means 1 Map and 2 Tables

Map 1 is the wastegate solenoid map with MAP and RPM being the axis

Table 1 is multiplier table of the first map with TPS and RPM being the axis

Table 2 is another multiplier table of the second map with TPS and KPH being the axis

MAP + RPM + TPS + KPH = ooops, that's 4 dimensions

How do you do that on a 3 dimensional map?

cheers