R33 Rb30 Conversion

[r33_racer]

yeh you can do it...but it has to be t'd into with pressure source...ie boost line and its some special t's piece too which works to help atomise the water before it hits the blades....stops the compressor wear.

[Cubes]

S3girl (Darren) runs water injection pre turbo with his GT40/hybrid thing. RB30ET sohc stock bottom end with hypereutectic pistons and managed 470rwkw on 26psi or there abouts. He said you have to push in a shit load of water preturbo for it to work half decently.

[GTRgeoff]

I worked a lot on water injection during my uni studies with a couple of motors on the engine dyno. We found a certain particle size for detonation suppression was critical. Using the stream seems to develop it well but destroys turbos. Atomising pre turbo was not so great as the compression raises the temp and relative humidity is dramatically lowered so the particle is absorbed or the size diminished to a size smaller than the critical size for detonation suppression.

the best location was post intercooler using a mechanical pump with a step control system to match water spray delivery to rpm on a lead system predicting rpm.

Too hard, too complex and possibly illegal in most classes of racing I'd guess.

If I had access to a Uni research budget and another research thesis to complete I'd have a million topics I'd love to do.

[r33_racer]

well im only going on whats going round at the moment, the latest trick is pre turbo and it helps shift the compressor back into its efficiency range whilst running higher then normal boost pressure(eg making a 800hp turbo flow 1000hp) which would normally send you outta the efficiency range and start blowing hot air and then losing power. Apparently people have been having more success with that then running post i/c like we had before. But they are just workshop ramblings of customers/friends. Ive only run it post i/c so far so i cant comment on how well it works the other way.

The setup we use or have used is pretty good as it reads off the afm voltage and you set a min and max setting and it just adjusts as the voltage changes as the relevent airflow changes. So its all relative, which really helps with getting fine settings down pat so you cant have too much or too little. Same setup that mafia used, its an old way of det suppression but mixed with modern electronics its a very good setup to have these days if you really wanna push things or just as a safety margin.

Edited July 19, 2007 by r33_racer

[GTRgeoff]

I can't see how that can improve the efficiency of the turbo. A statically cooler air charge due to the addition of water spray may increase volumetric loading but the argument will continue as to the quantity of non combustible water in the charge affecting the process.

The fundamental theory when I was studying this was that the presence of water droplets acts as the detonation suppressant. Not the cooling effect increasing the net availability (entropy from memory) of air for combustion.

It's just extreme phase diagram chemistry and probably beyond my brain after a bottle of red........... [hic]

[Al]

Keep us posted on the progress Michael; would especially like to see a dyno graph, to determine how responsive (or laggy) the set-up is, and how it delivers the power/torque.

Joel: Any progress with the GT30R? I'm still waiting

[CEF11E]

Helluva read!

I will have another to add to the list as soon as I can find a damn head to use.

I will be using an Rb30 bottom end rebuilt to NA specs using all nissan except for king bearings.

The aim is to find an RB25DE from an R32 so my GTR injectors, loom CAS, coilpacks ect can be used from my current RB20DET. but i have been ringing around for days and cant fine one anywhere, if anyone knows of where one is PM ME!

If I do decide to go with the RB25DE r33 head or DET head has anyone modified an RB20 fuel rail to fit the R33 head so top feeds can be used? I would be getting rid of VCT and running it of my loom and ECU.

I am trying to keep the car as stock looking as possible so i dont want any fancy looking bits.

[freddo]

Hi there just looking for some information regarding using 26 head,now I know I have to tap out head studs to 12mm,but do I have to drill hole deeper or is it the same depth?Also I was told as I will be using r32 gtr knock sensors I have to do something with the place they mount on 30 block is that right or do they just screw in,and lastley as I will be using the twin turbo set up is it all right to let both turbos drain to the one spot on the 30 block or should I find another solution.

Thanx Freddo

[CEF11E]

I had the opportunity to tune an RB30DET today. It was tuned using the factory RB20DET ECU and fantastic results were achieved.

the standard injectors and AFM were used. compression ratio was 7.6:1 and i was suprised how responsive it was with such a low ratio. a t3/t4 turbo was used and we were limited to 10 psi due to the injectors. hi silicon pistons for a RB30et were used and the valve shrouds and bowls were cleaned up. The head was an RB25DE from an R32 and RB20det cams were used the install looked factory even down to the rocker cover.

there was no lag at all the torque from idle to redline was nothing short of amazing and even with 200~220 rwkw and 3 85kg bodies in the car it's acceleration was phonemanal.

the build was aimed as being a cheap and effective street able engine and that it was. this is the owners first turbo car and he was more than happy with the performance and was not after high HP.

hunting for the bits like mad now... I have to have one. or two...

[Cubes]

Nice.

At what RPM did it make its peak power? How did power hold?

The RB30DET with a smallish turbo is a very deceiving motor how fast it really accelerates. As you said very little to no lag so constant acceleration from when you put the hammer down.

The smaller rb25/20 and 26 motors do tend to make the car feel fast as it feels as its top end screams; yes it does scream because it has no mid range. lol

[CEF11E]

it was tuned on the road with a wideband, so no figure. but peak power would have been 4000 rpm. but really anywhere between 3500 and 6000

[SECURITY]

hey guys, im about to undergo my own rb30 build. i want a streetable motor with the ability to hit 300rwkw without breaking on the street or circuit.

is this possible with the standard bottom end with the usual treatment (crank reground with oversize bearings, new rings, n1 oil pump), ill be using an rb25det head with the vct.

ill also be using my slide hiflow, will it be too small for the rb30?

[r33_racer]

the turbo probably will be...but you will look forward to more power downlow and probably almost everywhere depending on what manifolds your running. Only thing that might get restricted is the top end, but that could change based on whatever other bolt ons your running.

[r_speedfreak_r]

Hey guys i've noticed alot of people are saying oil squirters arnt needed. It may be a ignorant question but may i ask why there not recommended? Is it that most of these engines arn't exactly taking environmental factors in mind therefore running super lean and hot or would it still be beneficial but just not cost effective?

Edited July 24, 2007 by r_speedfreak_r

[Roy]

Those folk running GTR heads, is there a reason why everyone runs singles rather then twins. Not may setups in the results threads usign twins. Interested to see some T518Zs

[Scooby]

Hey guys i've noticed alot of people are saying oil squirters arnt needed. It may be a ignorant question but may i ask why there not recommended? Is it that most of these engines arn't exactly taking environmental factors in mind therefore running super lean and hot or would it still be beneficial but just not cost effective?

putting squirters in the RB30 block is a nightmare, and the thickness of the mounting surface can vary block to block so not every 30 block can be converted. also there are numerous people getting good power and relaibility without them.

[shanef]

Those folk running GTR heads, is there a reason why everyone runs singles rather then twins. Not may setups in the results threads usign twins. Interested to see some T518Zs

it's just the ease of running a single mate.

with twin, u need to fab up new dumps and front pipe, also make all the lines up again. its just heaps easier to run a big single

[Roy]

Not so worried about being easier, more interested in the finished product. A friend who had a strong RB30 with a single says it was a complete waste of time as it simply didnt hook up. Perhaps the dfelivery of twins would help a GTSt with traction.

[rockabilly]

just like to add guys fitted my pro engines sump adapter. today, superb bit of kit and fits no prob. instructions are top notch and top notch servive ..cheers gary..

if you need a kit like this buy pro engines one ..simple as..

[CEF11E]

Nice! that adapter looks the goods.

Secur1ty, I am in the same boat as you. It looks like I will be using my slide hiflow on my RB30 and possibly upgrade later (who am i kidding ofcorse i will bloody upgrade later) as if a measly 330rwhp is enough

I have bought all my parts and will be using:

RB30E series 2 nissan block, rods, pistons and crank. will inspect it and if it is in good condition I am not going to rebuild it as it has fairly low k's

R33 RB25DE head with VCT stock cams, new springs, r33 CAS and all standard R33 bits

standard nissan or cometic HG. new tensioners x 2 and 151 tooth belt

GTR injectors

R32 remapped ECU

Things I will have to figure out...

1. I will have to adapt a top feed fuel rail to an R33 RB25 inlet manifold. this should be doable... I already have the GTR squirters so make do with them.

2. will have to do a bit of figuring out how to get the R32 loom to play with the R33 cas and sensors otherwise I will have to swap the cams to R32 ones Do'h!

3. sort out the VCT head modifications, drill and tap tensioner hole, lower engine mounts.

so its a bit of work and will be the first time i have taken on a project this big. I have changed gearboxes, diffs and brakes, suspension but never pulled an engine apart.

I have a hoist, big garage a spare car and a big garage so all should be sweet!

The aim is to have a responsive 250rwkw package that is reliable with decent torque.

anyone see anything i have missed?