S-afc Ii Into Rb20de

[Rancher]

Hello, its me again! (I know you're all sick of my questions)

I am having serious over fueling issues (I just got a hold of Air/Fuel guage, and it's constantly in rich) So after much thinking I've decided to get myself a S-AFC II. Bit of an over kill for an NA engine but if it fixes my problems I dont care.

My question is; How does it actually work? Ive read the Apexi web site and it tells me you can adjust air, fuel and injectors. But;

where does it plug in?

Can I use it on an NA engine?

What do I need to know about this thing?

How to tune?

If I shove it into my car, and tune it, will I notice an increase in power and delivery?

Is it hard to tune myself? (I dont want to spend money for someone else to touch my baby)

Whats the difference between the Black SAFC, the Blue SAFC and the SAFC NEO? And which is better.

Don't give me lip on how useless it will be in an NA car. I dont think so. If I can tune my fuel and air and get more HP out.. then money is not wasted. Besides.. I can keep up with RB20DET Skylines (and sometimes beat them) so on you!

And, whats the average price of these second hand and new?

Edited February 3, 2007 by Rancher

[chinkeboi]

LOL LOL

you obviously haven't done a search..

it taps into your ecu lines.

Yes you can use it on an NA engine.

you need to pay someone to tune it (unless you own/work at a shop with a dyno)

you probably won't notice any increase in power as its an NA.. just face it.. unless you have cam gears and forged internals you are seriously fooling yourself.

are you even sure your running rich? all skylines run rich.. yes even your n/a.

and you being able to keep up with turbo skylines? LOLLL you mean when your redlining it and the turbo skyline is only reving up to 3.5k? LOL

[Rancher]

Holy jeebus, in the whole time Ive been here.. You'd have to be the rudest person who's replied...

Yes, I have done a search and Ive read everything in the NA forums about it. Doesnt explain much just says good HP gains and Fuel ecconomy.

Forgies are useless, Not even going to go there. And yes. I am running rich. I have an A/F guage and it stays in rich all the time. except idle when its stoich. It smells like fuel and I can see white smoke coming out of my exhuast.. Need any more info?.....

And for your infomation Mr. Rude. It was a friend of mine with the R32 running 12PSI and reving out to red line. I actually have some work done to my car. so before you generalise perhaps consider that work has been done before I make bold statements.

Please keep you Distastefull statements to yourself. I wanted info not to be bagged out.

[smurf80]

Hey mate,

There pretty easy to wire in so long as you have the ECU wire guide. Its a matter of tapping into your AFM wire and splicing a few others to take readings. It will help increase fuel enconomy if you are running rich.

Just curious what have you done to your RB20 and is the motor in a silvia?? Just going on your signature.

Cheers

Chris

[Sinturion]

If your car is running ultra rich then you are better off fixing whatever is causing problem rather than trying to use the SAFC as a bandaid fix. Black smoke is usually a sign of running rich - white smoke is usually a sign of condensation or a blown head gasket (hopefully the first one for your sake).

Getting a tuned SAFC will give you a few kws but probably less than 10 and closer to 5.

As for an rb20de vs an rb20det, I'd say the rb20de would have a chance IF the rb20de had several mods (filter, exhaust, extractors, punched cat, air ram etc), a good tune and a fair amount weight reduction. (vs stock rb20det that is)

[Rancher]

Its a 91 S13 Silvia. Cam gears, 2.5" mandrel bent exhaust and hi-flow cat, RB25DET fuel pump, advanced timing. a few wieght mods (seat belts, sound deadening, no air con gear, no wing) HKS pod, Z32 AFM, VLT water pump and R32 turbo radiator. All running on optimax.

Its not white I meant, Typed it wrong. It is black. There is nothing wrong with the AFM, O2 sensor or coolant temp sensor. Though the ECU is giving me a knock sensor error (error:34).

[Sinturion]

The knock sensor error means your knock sensor is broken or unplugged... it usually also means that the ecu will be running in safe mode - eg, extra rich a/f ratio and retarded timing.

[Sinturion]

Also.. if you are running a Z32 afm you probably need something to adjust your A/f ratios to compensate for the size difference. A SAFC would be good for this, but you will need to get it dyno tuned ($$$)

[Rancher]

Where is the knock sensor located on the RB20's? and how do I tell if its an error from something, or the sensor is stuffed?

and whats the difference between the black, blue and neo SAFC's? I'm still interested after reading some of the things it can do.

[GorGasm]

SAFC is just an AFM voltage regulator. All it does it alter the voltage coming from the AFM to the ECU.

If you reduce the AFM voltage the ecu thinks less air is coming in and puts in less gas, it also reads timing off a different part of the map than usual so will probably run a bit more advance.

You may get an increase in HP but probably not a huge amount.

Also the AF gauge will pretty much always read rich under load.

[Rancher]

Even at slight throttle it's pinged on the stop in rich. not at load or anything. While driving it stays in rich unless I'm completly off the throttle.

I know this is a thread about the S-AFC II, but I'm acutally getting responses lol. The Z32 AFM isn't causing the problem, and I just double checked the Coolant temp sensor, it reads normal hot and cold.

I still get the knock sensor error after reseting the ECU!

[Sinturion]

Another possibility that i thought of is that by using the Z32 AFM you have leaned out your mixture too much causing the engine to knock which may cause the ecu to go into safe mode (and give you knock sensor error). If you still have the original afm, try putting that in and reseting the ecu. From what I understand you can't just pop a Z32 AFM in without having a fuel controller (safc and such) or a full aftermarket ecu and having it tuned.

[unarmed_skyline]

i have a safc 2 one of the blue ones thats going to be up for sale, i got it tunned but it doesnt fit my application anymore soo if your looking for one pm me n i might be able to work something out, as for the differences the black and blue are just colours what you prefer, the diff between the safc 2 and the neo is that the neo has more tunning points i think its like 16 points insted of 12 but im unsure on those figures, it would be a good idea for your application espc with the z32 and upgraded fuel pump the car is probably running richer than it should be and this should be able to sort that out, allthough it does has limitations as i have found, it can only alter the fuel maps by i think 15% which is ok it your keeping the car na but when you turbo it like i have with my car its adjustments are limited, and it cannot control timing so you would be able to get more power out of the car but only a limited amount, as for your af gauge reading rich another reason y it might also be running rich all the time is that its pluged into the standard o2 sensor and not a wide band sensor so it wont be reading accurate reading and you cannot tune the car with it, they are mainly there only for looks unless you spend big dollars on accurate sensors and gauge. hope this helps you.

[Rancher]

Ive got the RB20DE AFM back in now (what a pain in the ass with the plug) and there is still no difference. The ECU is still giving me a knock error and reading rich. the A/F guage also says rich.

I know its supposed to be rich under heavy acceleration. But it stays in rich even when in 5th cruising. I figured that a SAFC would help me (and give me some nice options with my mods and HP) but am I wrong?

[Sinturion]

Done an ecu reset?

Should jump between rich and lean when crusing - this is governed by the o2 sensor.

Edited February 4, 2007 by Sinturion

[Rancher]

Done an ECU reset with no help. No while cruising it stays in rich. Unless I get off the throttle where it will go into Stoich.

Ive been reading and could it be my O2 sensor is shagged? On ebay they have a uni fit one. Will that fit my car? What are the standard volts supposed to be on it?

Advancing or retarding the timing isnt helping anything either. Neither is unplugging the coolant temp switch or unplugging the fuel pressure regulator. So it is definitly running rich.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130060574760&ssPageName=MERC_VI_RUPX_BIN_Stores_IT&refitem=130074609076&itemcount=4&refwidgetloc=active_view_item&usedrule1=UpSell_LogicX&refwidgettype=cross_promot_widget

Edited February 4, 2007 by Rancher

[Eug]

i'm not too cluey with cams/cam gears, but i would consider them to be a fairly heavy mod to any car - and obviously some form of tune is required to compensate for the changed conditions.

safc would be good, as would an itc (ignition timing controller) would be required to get the most out of your mods.

in terms of 02 sensor, a uni fit one will do the job nicely. but kudosmotorsports (sau sponser) sell NTK ones for about $100-120'ish. direct screw out, screw in, plug out, plug in.

in terms of what will fit your car - do you have extractors? if it's the standard rb20de headers then that's what will fit.

[Sinturion]

I would try and figure out the knock sensor code before you start buying new things. Perhaps the person who did the engine transplant forgot to plug it in or so? do a bit of searching about knock sensors on these forums & sdu - should help you diagnose it.

[32vspecII]

the afr guages are useless , do not use it for anything apart from eye candy

why do you have a z32 afm , you need a tuned ecu for this .

is the guage the only reason why you think its running rich ?

fix the problems your having 1st and then you could get a safc and take a but of fueling out of it . dont expect much improvement , but a little

you could also get your stock ecu reprogramed

[Rancher]

I think I said in the other post, that it smells like fuel when ideling and driving. it seems to flaten out about 4500RPM and feels pretty bad. And blowing out a bit of black smoke.

The dude before me put the Z32 AFM on. I have just taken it off and put a standard one I brought onto it.

I figured I probably distroyed the O2 sensor when I over heated it when it was running lean.

I'm pretty sure the knock sensor is in. Are they a comon item to just suddenly stop working as well?

I just figured, that with the mods done it was just plain running rich. I thought that the S-AFC would aid me in this but obviously not. Where can I get one of these wideband sensors? And again.. Where is the knock sensor located as there are a few on the block and they are all pluged in.