Emission Testing Modified Skyline's

[Guilt-Toy]

yeah well while i was there i remembered that my charcol canister is only half hooked up and it could actually be the cause of the issue. so i got a few things to fix up before i go back on the 28th.

Was thinking of trying the same tune but richening it up on cruise after 70ks an hour which is where i started to get high emissions OR i could get a new fuel pump and tune the car again from scratch..

dont know what i am going to do yet..

[wrxhoon]

How much boost were you running when she was tested? Fuel pump shouldn't make any difference .

[Guilt-Toy]

the boost was set to 9psi and it never went into boost anyway...

I need some print outs of some tests that have passed.. does anyone have any scanned tests from the RTA that passed?

do you have the one that you passed jerry?

[wrxhoon]

the boost was set to 9psi and it never went into boost anyway...

I need some print outs of some tests that have passed.. does anyone have any scanned tests from the RTA that passed?

do you have the one that you passed jerry?

I'll have a look I think I may have one, what do you need to check ? How do you know it never went in to boost ?

[Guilt-Toy]

because they gave me 2 extra runs and let me play with the hand controller while they were driving it.

If only they gave me one more run to run it richer.. no matter im booked in for another test on the 28th of this month.

I'll have a look I think I may have one, what do you need to check ? How do you know it never went in to boost ?

Edited February 7, 2007 by Guilt-Toy

[black33gtst]

I was going to suggest the higher ethanol content, run low and fill up with an emergency 5 bottles of Recochem metho 95% ethanol. Do the test, pass with flying colours, quickly get to a servo and fill up with 10L of fuel, run it down to dilute the ethanol, then fill the tank up per norm.

I can't see it hurting if done over the course of a couple of hours, I've done this with a corolla with a 4AGE, I ran close to pure ethanol in an emergency and it actually ran beautifully.

You do realise 95% methylated spirits contains 5% water, Methylated spirits is just another name for Ethanol, I worked in a chemical company in brisbane and we sold 100% Ethanol and watered it down with 5% water for your off the shelf metho, wouldnt be putting 5% water through my car as suggested above.

[Guilt-Toy]

ethenol brings up the nox values which will make it fail anyway

[saliya]

You do realise 95% methylated spirits contains 5% water, Methylated spirits is just another name for Ethanol, I worked in a chemical company in brisbane and we sold 100% Ethanol and watered it down with 5% water for your off the shelf metho, wouldnt be putting 5% water through my car as suggested above.

Hey,

Methylated spirits is 'denatured' ethyl alcohol (ethanol); denaturing meaning basically making it undrinkable.

This is usually done by adding 10% or so methyl alcohol (methanol) or a similar amount of naptha.

I doubt the company was selling 100% ethanol diluted with water as methylated spirits, because it's not denatured

and is thus subject to booze tax. There are hundreds of ways to denature ethanol - but none of them is by

adding 5% water only

Guilt-toy - keep us all posted; if you can get a PFC with 740cc injectors past emissions I'd like to think I'll be able

to put my 700cc Sards in and do the same thing. If you could post any information/graphs etc. that you get

that'd be awesome.

Regards,

Saliya

Edited February 8, 2007 by saliya

[wrxhoon]

Here you Go Anthony, I found one, I couldn't find the warm up sheet though.

[Guilt-Toy]

I can see some major differences between mine...

The CO is double what mine is... and it can go to 9.4 to be legal

The fuel consumption is higher - 17.2 litres per hundred compared to my 11.8 litres per hundred.

The nox is really low and HC is .8 less then mine.

Mine is running lean because i drive lots of k's a day to work and back (min 140) so i tuned it to be good on fuel so thats why my nox is so high.

I think i am going to get the wideband again and retune the ecu before the next test to:

1: run richer

2: run more retarded timing

3: more stable a/f ratio's on freeway cruise and drivability driving.

im thinking of tuning it to around 14.0 a/f on drivability and 14.4 at over 60ks an hour...

NOX is mainly generated from heat so all i have to do is fatten up the tune a bit and go back and see what happens.

Will also fix the charcol canister situation up as well and get hold of a good cat converter.

Thanks for that jerry - much appreciated.

Edited February 8, 2007 by Guilt-Toy

[Cubes]

I'm not sure how spot on the dyno's wideband is but last time she was on the dyno I noticed idle and cruise was sitting on 14.2:1 with the o2 sensor enabled.

This is running the pfc obviously.

[wrxhoon]

I can see some major differences between mine...

The CO is double what mine is... and it can go to 9.4 to be legal

The fuel consumption is higher - 17.2 litres per hundred compared to my 11.8 litres per hundred.

The nox is really low and HC is .8 less then mine.

Mine is running lean because i drive lots of k's a day to work and back (min 140) so i tuned it to be good on fuel so thats why my nox is so high.

I think i am going to get the wideband again and retune the ecu before the next test to:

1: run richer

2: run more retarded timing

3: more stable a/f ratio's on freeway cruise and drivability driving.

im thinking of tuning it to around 14.0 a/f on drivability and 14.4 at over 60ks an hour...

NOX is mainly generated from heat so all i have to do is fatten up the tune a bit and go back and see what happens.

Will also fix the charcol canister situation up as well and get hold of a good cat converter.

Thanks for that jerry - much appreciated.

Don't forget mine was an RB26 so fuel consumpion would be higher and she was stock tune on a stock computer ( I figured the only way to pass a GTR was to have everything stock), there is another reason for the high fuel consumption but I wont go in to that . Typicaly on an RB26 on the RTA 240 test fuel consumption should be around the 15l/100k and it didn't go un-noticed by the guy that did the test as he told me about it but my aim was to pass the car because it was send there by the cops . RB25's are much easier to pass than RB26's for many reasons.

Retarding timming to far won't help , same with advancing it, you have to stick very close to Nissan specs. Same with running to rich or lean , I guess trial and error in your case if you are prepared to keep going there , I didn't have that luxury , I had to pass it .. You answered your own question by saying NOX will increase with heat, run it lean and she will generate more heat.. On the other hand what I told you to do will make it run much cooler because you have much less load when it's going uphill . If you had an exhaust temp gauge you would be able to see the difference in exhaust temp going uphill on full song .

Like I told you before there is no easy way out of it and if you had cams you would never pass .

Good luck on the next test .

Edited February 8, 2007 by wrxhoon

[black33gtst]

Hey,

Methylated spirits is 'denatured' ethyl alcohol (ethanol); denaturing meaning basically making it undrinkable.

This is usually done by adding 10% or so methyl alcohol (methanol) or a similar amount of naptha.

I doubt the company was selling 100% ethanol diluted with water as methylated spirits, because it's not denatured

and is thus subject to booze tax. There are hundreds of ways to denature ethanol - but none of them is by

adding 5% water only

Guilt-toy - keep us all posted; if you can get a PFC with 740cc injectors past emissions I'd like to think I'll be able

to put my 700cc Sards in and do the same thing. If you could post any information/graphs etc. that you get

that'd be awesome.

Regards,

Saliya

hi mate,

a mistake by me not elaborating enough, yes you are right you can use methanol as a denaturing agent but the trend by most of the larger chemical companys in the past has changed to adding 25 litres per 23000 litres of MIBK with 150grams of bitrex to denature and then adding 5% water to achieve the 95% ethanol blends. yes we werent selling 100% ethanol we added MIBK and Bitrex to denature. Hopefully that clears it up. As a side note I ran a test using a Gas Cromatograph machine on the leading suppliers of Methylated spirits in australia which confirmed all were adding water.

[Cubes]

Being a 3ltr I'd imagine the rb25 nissan spec ignition timing would be out. Being essentially a stroked rb25 the piston speed is greater; I would have thought the 3ltr would require just that little more ignition to achieve peak combustion pressures where they are supposed to be? Or maybe it doesn't work like that? :S

[666DAN]

You do realise 95% methylated spirits contains 5% water, Methylated spirits is just another name for Ethanol, I worked in a chemical company in brisbane and we sold 100% Ethanol and watered it down with 5% water for your off the shelf metho, wouldnt be putting 5% water through my car as suggested above.

Gee I hope I realise that, considering I'm an industrial chemist. 5% water behaves differently in solvent systems and won't do jack if run through quick enough. You'd be opposed to water-methanol injection as well???

Also there is no way in hell you'd be diluting 100% ethanol, it costs way too much to produce, just to dilute back to 95%.

95-96% is when ethanol forms an azeotrope anyway which is why it is so cheap to produce. Taking ethanol from 95% to 100% is where it gets bloody expensive.

Methylated spirits doesnt contain methanol anymore, they're ~95% ethanol, 0.25 Methyl Isobutyl Ketone (make you sick) and some Bitrex to make it taste bad.

[black33gtst]

Gee I hope I realise that, considering I'm an industrial chemist. 5% water behaves differently in solvent systems and won't do jack if run through quick enough. You'd be opposed to water-methanol injection as well???

Also there is no way in hell you'd be diluting 100% ethanol, it costs way too much to produce, just to dilute back to 95%.

95-96% is when ethanol forms an azeotrope anyway which is why it is so cheap to produce. Taking ethanol from 95% to 100% is where it gets bloody expensive.

Methylated spirits doesnt contain methanol anymore, they're ~95% ethanol, 0.25 Methyl Isobutyl Ketone (make you sick) and some Bitrex to make it taste bad.

As I said 2 posts above about the mibk and bitrex.

and yes we were importing 100% ethanol from New Guinea (much cheaper) and producing 95% ims (industrial methylated spirits.

And I understand about quickly running some ims95 through your system but was meaning dont do it as a continual thing.

read above i explained to all about the mibk and bitrex (that crap really gets into everything doesnt it lol)

no arguments meant mate just conveying some info

[Guilt-Toy]

Just a quick update on this - i wired my fuel pump directly to a 12v feed using a relay (as i heard my fuel pump should flow around 350rwkw) and hired the dyno again and retuned the ecu over the weekend. made 317rwkw on 20psi and cleaned up the fuel maps. getting hold of a decent cat for the next tune.

[Guilt-Toy]

I PASSED THE TEST!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WWWWWWWWWOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You guys have no idea how happy i am right now.. i just got back to work from the RTA Botany and passed the IM240 test with FLYING colours.

THC 0.39 - NOX 1.01 - CO 2.6 (its even half what it can be)

Every part of that tune and setup was done by me - this adds to the satisfaction as well as the fact that many people doubted me and said things like "you cant pass big injectors" "you cant pass a power FC" "you need to get a 5 gas tune that costs $1000 at least before you should even bother attempting" rah rah rah rah rah. HA!!!

I tuned the car the first time for economy and failed the test due to a high NOX so then i hired the dyno again the other weekend and re-tuned it to how i "thought" it would need to be to pass emissions after gathering as much information as possible on the net and comparing it to a passed test sheet.

So yeah 317rwkw and fully EPA legal. Now its time to get my engineers certificate so I can stick it up the police and epa.

I hate to sound like im blowing my trumpet but i am soo stoaked that I managed to pull this off all by myself. (with some hints from Jerry WRXHOON who has done the tests before)

After i get the car engineered its time to go for 400+rwkw

Edited February 27, 2007 by Guilt-Toy

[Cubes]

Awesome.... It can be done.

Top stuff.

Blow your trumpet all you want. Its well deserved.

So you simply richened it up slightly (14.2afr)? pulled a little ignition or?

[Guilt-Toy]

thanks man.. !!!

I retuned it to run between 13.6 - 14.4 on cruise - keeping in mind the map was based on the Apexi Power FC for japan's fuel...

I sat in the passenger seat with the HC and just watched the emissions read on the screen while he was driving with the HUGEST smile on my face

I also used Shell V-Power 100 with 5% ethenol. and got hold of a good compliance Cat converter (Thanks Jerry) and fixed up the vapor leak - found the charcol canister was not even hooked up and the breather from the tank ontop of the dif was not even pluged in!!!

Edited May 9, 2007 by Guilt-Toy