The Epa Thread/Roadworthy Thread

[alr33x]

thats all to technical for me, so for an idiot help me out... why do they check hieght with the wheel on say the front bar? if it relates to axles..

..and yeh im not smart with this technical shit before someone becomes a smartass

[R31Nismoid]

The axles rule is just the "lowest point"...

Generally a front bar is within the restriction distance so its 100mm.

Usually the only place that can be lower than 100mm (how low depends on the calc's), is usually around where your CAT would finish.

It's a very small section.

Obviously the above is super generic, each situation is different.

Make better sense?

[alr33x]

yeh fair enough.. such a crappy rule lol

[2000gtt]

im about to go get my car tested/fixedc. But i am confused and want to know all the information before i fork out my money so...

its an Rb25det, R34. so 90db @4800rpm max legal...

when it was tested it got 89-91db @ that, but bounced up on 'deacceleration'...is that a problem? or am i just being screwed by the system??

i mean if its legal @4800...whats with getting busted when its de-accellarting at some other RPM??

thanks

[R31Nismoid]

they now measure deaccel noise, so yes, if you go over then you are over.

Its "back off noise", just make sure the plugs are clean and gapped openly, will help reduce that

[alr33x]

borrow a stock exhaust to be safe, im assuming your running an aftermarket?

[2000gtt]

yeah it looks half an inch to an inch wider then stock, big ricer style muffler (lol) and a small resi, will it be possible to quite it down?

[Thelen]

So after spending hours reading this and other threads, EPA documents and the tealeaves of some long lost Chinese tribe, I'm still totally confused about what you can and cannot do.

From my reading, it seems like basically ANY mod at all is pretty much illegal EPA wise, BUT, in the EPA 06 document it says:

Any modification is permitted provided that it can be

shown, by way of test1 or engineering reason, to

show that the modification would not be expected to

cause an increase in emissions beyond a similar,

unmodified vehicle.

So does that mean with an ADR compliance thing or engineering cert, 'ANY' mod is actually OK?

I'll list some mods/reasons/questions to be more specific:

- Intake manifold/plenum - There are a hundred threads on here about how to modify stock, put in plasmaman/greddy etc, but is any of it actually legal at all?

- POD (dry) is legal, but not with any change to intercooler. But what about those in an airbox, because again, 100 threads about how to do that and questions about that

- FMIC/SMIC, as above really.

- Injectors? EPA says "Extra or larger fuel injectors are not permitted." so not that they could actually tell without pulling them out, but they are still illegal right? So the 100 threads talking about them, all illegal?

- ECU, again says not permitted, unless to meet ADR.

- Turbo changes, doesn't actually talk about that much in terms of changing the size/CFM/PSI etc, just that external wastegate not permitted (and therefore majorly reducing the number of turbos available). Highflowing is impossible to tell, but is it actually legal? What about changing other aspects (impeller size/type, housing, etc) but still keeping an internal wastegate? Again, 500 threads on this, but is any of it legal?

- Exhaust manifold, seems to be all OK to mod this, ie stick in 3" dump pipes, as long as doesn't break any other rules.

- Exhaust cat and back, again legal as long as isn't too noisy, still maintains the same catalytic quality etc?

- Boost controller, probably belongs with ECU, but illegal? How do make use of your fancy new highflow without one?

As I said at the start, it seems all of this CAN be done contrary to all of that document saying NO NOT PERMITTED, so long as ADR/engineering certs are gotten? Is that right?

Basically, at the end of the day, I'm asking, what mods can be done legally, and how do you go about it (actual mod, as well as the legal aspects)

I know 95% of you guys just do it yourself or take to your local mechanic, without even looking at the legality, but a few like R31Nismoid have actually gotten damn close to following the law 100% and still making major power.

As a side point, how do performance shops like Dr Drift, Mercury, etc do modifications that majorly increase the power, ie 300RWKW etc, when all/most of the mods are illegal EPA wise? OR is this not the case because they are legit/engineer approved places? IE, can you have mods done at these places and it is legal?

Edited April 11, 2010 by Thelen

[Peter89]

Totally depends on the year of being made.

As you said Alex - pre 1983 cars have different rules, there are also cars that do not require CAT convertors and so on due to age etc etc.

HOWEVER should you put say a RB26 into a Datto 180b - you would need to comply with the MOTOR's emission requirements, not the cars.

It's very much subjective to the situation - if you can provide more detailed info we could help futher

well, i own a s14 which was sold in 1995. so do i have to follow the ridiculous new sounds restrictions (90db) or the restrictions when the car was released? which was probably 96db.

[R31Nismoid]

^ What do you mean "new"?

It's always been 90dB for a car/motor combination made in 1995.

[R31Nismoid]

So after spending hours reading this and other threads, EPA documents and the tealeaves of some long lost Chinese tribe, I'm still totally confused about what you can and cannot do.

From my reading, it seems like basically ANY mod at all is pretty much illegal EPA wise, BUT, in the EPA 06 document it says:

Any modification is permitted provided that it can be

shown, by way of test1 or engineering reason, to

show that the modification would not be expected to

cause an increase in emissions beyond a similar,

unmodified vehicle.

So does that mean with an ADR compliance thing or engineering cert, 'ANY' mod is actually OK?

That is more in reference to replacement parts.

ie. injectors non standard or aftermarket AFM, but ALL very close to the factory specifications.

In the event that say Nissan discontinue manufacturing or something.

Engineers certs do not cover all emissions testing in Vic unfortunately, EPA has some grounding.

I'll list some mods/reasons/questions to be more specific:

- Intake manifold/plenum - There are a hundred threads on here about how to modify stock, put in plasmaman/greddy etc, but is any of it actually legal at all?

- POD (dry) is legal, but not with any change to intercooler. But what about those in an airbox, because again, 100 threads about how to do that and questions about that

- FMIC/SMIC, as above really.

- Injectors? EPA says "Extra or larger fuel injectors are not permitted." so not that they could actually tell without pulling them out, but they are still illegal right? So the 100 threads talking about them, all illegal?

- ECU, again says not permitted, unless to meet ADR.

- Turbo changes, doesn't actually talk about that much in terms of changing the size/CFM/PSI etc, just that external wastegate not permitted (and therefore majorly reducing the number of turbos available). Highflowing is impossible to tell, but is it actually legal? What about changing other aspects (impeller size/type, housing, etc) but still keeping an internal wastegate? Again, 500 threads on this, but is any of it legal?

- Exhaust manifold, seems to be all OK to mod this, ie stick in 3" dump pipes, as long as doesn't break any other rules.

- Exhaust cat and back, again legal as long as isn't too noisy, still maintains the same catalytic quality etc?

- Boost controller, probably belongs with ECU, but illegal? How do make use of your fancy new highflow without one?

As I said at the start, it seems all of this CAN be done contrary to all of that document saying NO NOT PERMITTED, so long as ADR/engineering certs are gotten? Is that right?

Basically, at the end of the day, I'm asking, what mods can be done legally, and how do you go about it (actual mod, as well as the legal aspects)

I know 95% of you guys just do it yourself or take to your local mechanic, without even looking at the legality, but a few like R31Nismoid have actually gotten damn close to following the law 100% and still making major power.

As a side point, how do performance shops like Dr Drift, Mercury, etc do modifications that majorly increase the power, ie 300RWKW etc, when all/most of the mods are illegal EPA wise? OR is this not the case because they are legit/engineer approved places? IE, can you have mods done at these places and it is legal?

Most of the answers are in this thread mate...

Plenum - Illegal

POD - Illegal (unless 1 intake mod)

FMIC - Illegal (unless 1 intake mod)

Injectors - Illegal, given you need aftermarket ECU to run them...

ECU - Same as above.

Turbo - Impossible to tell a hi-flow, illegal but cannot be checked. Larger than factory turbos are illegal either way.

Exhaust - Manifold is fine

Exhaust - Could be 5" for all it matters, however MUST be within noise restrictions

Boost control - Illegal. Allows you to increase boost

You can get all the above legal - IF you go through ADR testing and its within limits.

Issue is to get that approval is a $3000 test, and if you fail, you don't get a refund.

[Thelen]

OK, as I said the answers are in the thread, I already said/knew that they were illegal, what I was getting at is how it is done legally.

Aside from the $2-3k testing, there really is no way to get EPA legal mods of the above done?

So basically 95% of the posts here are illegal lol? Well, not illegal, but clearly the owner/modifier isn't following any testing or anything

I guess just have to live with the risk of fines from EPA to see any/much increase in power without just buying a plain faster car

Just spoke to *** at RE customs, and don't quote me or him on it, but he said people just do the mods and if they get done replace with stocks and get it all cleared. Seems a bit ridicules to do this, even more so that EPA isn't more proactive (not that im saying they SHOULD enforce the law more lol, just saying they do a pretty shitty job), but whatever TIA lol.

So looks like I'll just have to suck my balls in and hope they don't get snipped by a cop and sent to teh bad house.

Edited April 12, 2010 by Thelen

[iseekool]

I know this sounds like a small thing.... but best I check...

I've changed the number plate light on my R34 to a white LED (T10). I'm aware any other colour is not allowed.

Is this allowed? Reason I ask is because it doesn't seem as bright as the original (T10) incandesent light.

[adzr33]

Just a quick one. Does anyone know what year we are required to have a airbag steering wheel?

[wht510]

If your car came with an airbag, that was the year that needed it...

[frozenpod]

Plenum - Illegal (unless 1 intake mod)

POD - Illegal (unless 1 intake mod)

FMIC - Illegal (unless 1 intake mod)

Injectors - Illegal, given you need aftermarket ECU to run them...

1 intake mod??

You have this regulation from the EPA modification guidlines wrong if you think you are only allowed 1 intake modification.

You can have as many intake modifications as you like provided they meet the requirements unless you have an aftermarket intercooler which in the case of an aftermarket intercooler it is the only modification that you are allowed to have.

Mofied plenum chambers are not legal under any circumstances without ADR approval.

[alr33x]

your post didnt make much sense to me, how can you have more than one if you can only modify the cooler but nothing else thats 1..

if u put a pod u cant have the cooler, and your saying u cant have a plenum regardless so how do u have as many as u like?

[R31Nismoid]

1 intake mod??

You have this regulation from the EPA modification guidlines wrong if you think you are only allowed 1 intake modification.

You can have as many intake modifications as you like provided they meet the requirements unless you have an aftermarket intercooler which in the case of an aftermarket intercooler it is the only modification that you are allowed to have.

Mofied plenum chambers are not legal under any circumstances without ADR approval.

Intercoolers that are larger than standard or have a different mounting location or are added where none were originally fitted, are permitted only if no other changes to the intake system have been made. In other words, you may have a pod filter or modified/added intercooler, but not both. Any sensors integral to the original intercooler or intake system just be retrofitted and be in the correct location.

Modified or aftermarket plenum chambers or throttle bodies are not permitted.

Document is here: EPA Guidelines (2006)

So guess what, given you only have a 1x Airbox, 1x Intercooler, 1x Plenum on pretty much every EFI car... What's left to change exactly? Painting the piping pink?

And you are only allowed to change two of those 3...

On top of that you are only allowed to mod one...

Guess what that leaves us with to do?

You are only allowed to make... 1 intake modification.

[Russman]

Usually the only place that can be lower than 100mm (how low depends on the calc's), is usually around where your CAT would finish.

It's a very small section.

That's so dumb coz that's where speed bumps will rip the exhaust off! Is there a maximum height that speed bumps are allowed to be? haha

[R31Nismoid]

I know this sounds like a small thing.... but best I check...

I've changed the number plate light on my R34 to a white LED (T10). I'm aware any other colour is not allowed.

Is this allowed? Reason I ask is because it doesn't seem as bright as the original (T10) incandesent light.

I know there is some sort of ADR around having the plate lit up for the obvious reasons, unsure if the actual amount of light is specified though.

I've never really looked into something that trivial

How far that goes to get you in trouble or not i wouldn't be entirely sure either.

I know you can be defected for one that doesn't work... but given yours works... even if it wasn't inline with the rules totally, should be ok.