The Epa Thread/Roadworthy Thread

[Curmi]

why? ecu and z32 should ...just worried about injectors ...turbo is a low mount and looks stock..

[Borci88]

If it didn't come stock it didn't come stock, they will pick up on the injectors, the Z32 and he'll probably get a good enough look at the turbo to tell also.

You have to consider that a stock computer isn't going to run different injectors and what not perfectly like it probably runs now, which is an indication that the computer has been changed and other things to suit.

Edited December 10, 2012 by Borci88

[R31Nismoid]

well i got a epa in the mail today emmissions and noise.. fml..

gonna go test it see if i pass with upgraded turbo(gt2876r), r32 gtr injectors, z32, dr drift remap.. everything else is stock ....not worth it?

Z32 = instant failure. The EPA aren't stupid.

They also will then realise the ECU isn't stock so go looking even harder is usually the case.

[MrSheepMoose]

Hey guys.

I'm currently looking into buying an import. I'm wanting to do some modifications to it, and I want to avoid the hassle of replacing parts whenever I get a defect.

A few things I'm unsure of...

1) Roll cages.

What can be fitted, and at which point does it need to be engineered? Are 6 point bolt in roll cages legal, providing you have padded the areas in which your head could come into contact, and it doesn't block the entry points?

2) Coilovers.

Can you get defected for having them, even if you haven't lowered the car below the legal limit? If so, is engineering the best way to avoid this?

3) Seats.

I'd like to install some seats, but aren't sure of the legalities behind it. I know that you need ADR approved seats, or an engineering certificate. Can you only engineer ADR approved seats though, or are you able to engineer seats like Brides?

That mostly covers it.

Few more questions though. If you do get defected and fined, despite having an engineer certificate, what's the best way to contest the fine?

Also, any engineers you guys have used and would recommend? Looking for one who could engineer the items I listed, plus a few more (suspension bits, diff (if needed), boost controller/ECU (I think it's needed due to the EPA), Steering wheel quick release, that sort of stuff).

Thanks guys!

[wht510]

What state are you in? Some of the questions you answer can differ based on this alone.

[MrSheepMoose]

I wouldn't post under the Victorian section if I wasn't from Victoria.

[Curmi]

lol

[R31Nismoid]

I wouldn't post under the Victorian section if I wasn't from Victoria.

You'd be surprised, interstate people have posted in the wrong area's before, i back Nik on that lol

Rollcages - the laws changed recently. I'd reccommend calling VicRoads and asking to speak to one of their engineers. Or calling a professional roll cage maker like Brown Davis in Bayswater. They should be up with the laws.

Coilovers - you need to retain 2/3 the orignal suspension travel from memory, which almost no coil overs do.

So as long as you run the correct ride height (over 100mm), you generally wont have a problem as not even the super-TMU's know much about in depth ADRs

Seats - Must be recliner and fit the approved standard if you wanna keep the rear sets (speak to a VASS signatory like Enkelman in Braeside for how to get them legal, don't bother calling VicRoads about that, they won't know). Otherwise you can put in fixed back seats but you need to remove the rear seats, seat belts/buckles and re-rego the car as a 2-seater which needs a VASS Cert (engineers cert).

If you get done - take the pricks to court. I have many times, and won. Just gotta be prepared to do it and after a couple of times you'll find they will back off. Also ensure you write a nice scathing letter to the Ombudsman about being victimised, feeling threatened in your own community etc and you should be fine after that.

ECU/Boost controllers are instant failures and you can realistically never get them engineered/EPA/legal. It's too much cost here in Vic and too much effort.

So when you do get pinned, swap to stock - my cars generally can be "made to stock" in an 60-90mins if you mod smartly, and you can still have 350rwkw+

[MrSheepMoose]

Awesome. Thank you so much for the information!

[gtr jet]

I was also just about to ask all those questions so thanks for doing it for me Sean.

Looks like i'll have to start making some phone calls and ripping the coilovers out.

[Miguelone]

Fixed backs are fine with rear seats if you have a 4 door though right? Something about having to be able to let rear passengers out quickly in an emergency?

[eightsixboy]

I wonder if aus spec super streets are 'legal'? There pretty soft.

I was also just about to ask all those questions so thanks for doing it for me Sean.

Looks like i'll have to start making some phone calls and ripping the coilovers out.

Why pull the coilovers out? Thats prob the easiest thing to swap 'if' you get defected for it.

[eightsixboy]

Fixed backs are fine with rear seats if you have a 4 door though right? Something about having to be able to let rear passengers out quickly in an emergency?

I think any seat is 'illegal' unless its adr approved and on Adr approved rails, even then they'll prob defect you and make you prove its legal.

With a 4 door I think you can get away with fixed seats though, don't see why it would be any issue, its not impacting on any rear passengers in anyway.

[MrSheepMoose]

Fixed backs are fine with rear seats if you have a 4 door though right? Something about having to be able to let rear passengers out quickly in an emergency?

That's what I've heard.

Makes sense really. Would suck needing to unbolt a seat or attempt to cut it up to release a trapped passenger.

[gtr jet]

Why pull the coilovers out? Thats prob the easiest thing to swap 'if' you get defected for it.

So I can get the car on the road. It hasn't been registered in a couple of years. I'm just thinking about waiting till I can get club reg.

[R31Nismoid]

Fixed backs are fine with rear seats if you have a 4 door though right? Something about having to be able to let rear passengers out quickly in an emergency?

You'd need to talk with VicRoads/VASS Engineer about that with regard to a 4door, i don't remember reading it anywhere.

[wht510]

MrSheepMoose, Glad we made sure you were from Vic, as everyone said, some people from NSW/WA etc. do post here. Because you don't say from what area you are from I would have to assume you are from VIC and then all hell breaks loose.... Oh and thanks for asking clear questions, it sounds like you know what you want/need, which makes answering them easier.

Fixed back seats in a coupe can't be done for the reason stated previously. Ash has hit the nail on the head for that. Rear seated passengers need to exit the car in a hurry, they can't get out. I have heard you can have one fixed back and one recliner, but you would have to confirm this. You have to do as Ash recommends, and remove the rear seats. This also opens you up to running harnesses if you want, but again, the mounts need to be ADR approved (engineered) and the harnesses themselves need to conform to the Australian Standards (AS for seatbelts).

Fixed back seats in a four door depend on the vintage of the car and the style of the seat. Most OEM seats these days are padded from behind (HAhahha) so you don't crack your scull open when you are sitting in the back and you rear end someone (HAhahah again..). Due to this, most race seats wont pass the new standard for someone hitting them in a passenger seat behind them.... Hence it's usually easier to remove the rear seats! To do this, it's fairly easy to register the vehicle with Vicroads as a two seater. In a 4 door this would be funny, but in a coupe it kind of makes sense

You need to make sure the seats you fit to your car have been tested to the Australian Standard (ADR) They don't actually become ADR'd until they have been approved by an engineer for fitment.

I'm not sure if BRIDE seats have had this done, but there are some companies that import them who may have actually completed the AS testing. FIA approved seats, even though the tests are more stringent and higher in capacity for loading are slightly different than the ADR tests, and wont be allowed by the engineer unless they have completed the AS testing. I do know the Sparco Pro 2000's for example have been approved as passing the AS testing, and when fitted to a car with approved steel rails, can conform to engineers requirements.

Based on what I have heard, the current laws on roll cages state that no cage is legal. Bolt in or weld in, you can't run one. If you already have one fitted, then you are lucky... You can argue you can't remove it easily and it has already been approved.

The reason for this is mainly due to the crumple zone design of modern cars, and the potential for the roll cage to affect the performance of crash absorption. I still don't understand why we can't run roll cages in older cars which did not have such crumple zones. They need to specify a date I think, and I think Brown Davis and other cage manufacturers are promoting this idea to the appropriate authorities.

Typically when you make changes to the way a car handles (such as fitting bigger brakes or coil overs or any other driveline modification), you will require an emergency stop test, and I think there is now a swerve avoidance test. When fitting bigger brakes, you must speak to an engineer to get approval, as you are changing the dynamics of a previously tested car. The OEM company fitment have gone to a heap of trouble to make sure the car conforms to the requirements of stopping with (or without) ABS at a range of speeds and conditions. The same applies for coil overs or the OEM system.

As Ash said, Mod smartly, or go to the trouble and do it all in one hit and have the piece of mind that you can say to Mr Police Officer that it's 100% legal...

EDIT:

Removable steering wheel/boss etc. will need to be OK'd by the engineer. Most likely it wont be approved due to the potential of affecting the AirBag (if you have one?) If you don't have an airbag (that is the car is pre-airbag), then you need to have a cushioned centre. Again, it comes down to hitting your head on the wheel if you rear end someone or something... There are ways of getting around this, but you/the engineer have to dig a little bit and it's usually easier in cars that are pre ADR requirements that may not have had cushioned steering wheels in them. I'm talking 1970's here for example!

Edited December 12, 2012 by wht510

[wht510]

I should add that most VASS engineers are receptive to those who have done their homework. If you say "I have this car and I would like to do these mods and can you quote for a certificate" they will usually be able to provide a fairly accurate figure depending on what you want done.

You have to be careful though, as these guys have to make a living and some of them wont provide advice unless they are charging by the hour. It's better to say a list and ask for a quote. If they say you can't do it, ask for any way that you can (testing etc.) to make it legal, and go from there.

Fees largely depend on what you want done and the appropriate paperwork/ calculations or testing required. Plus being a VASS approved engineer is expensive. They have to pay some crazy amounts for insurance purposes....

[Dan_J]

good info guys ^

Based on what I have heard, the current laws on roll cages state that no cage is legal. Bolt in or weld in, you can't run one. If you already have one fitted, then you are lucky... You can argue you can't remove it easily and it has already been approved.

The reason for this is mainly due to the crumple zone design of modern cars, and the potential for the roll cage to affect the performance of crash absorption. I still don't understand why we can't run roll cages in older cars which did not have such crumple zones. They need to specify a date I think, and I think Brown Davis and other cage manufacturers are promoting this idea to the appropriate authorities.

few months back a padded half cage was legal, now its illegal.... and vic drift just changed its reg now every one must run at least a cams spec bolt in half cage for 2013

Edited December 12, 2012 by Dan_J

[Miguelone]

Great write up, from what you're saying about brakes sounds like GTR Brembos into a gtst should be fine but a car like mine for instance would need to be engineered because I don't have ABS and the Brembos are designed for cars which do?