Cut/polish On Fresh Paint

[Rekin]

Hey,

Went to a detailer who used to own a panel beating shop and was telling me how he still paints small things. (sideskirts, front bar etc)

He was telling me that you can cut/polish a new spray after 1hr of paint being applied due to the new style of paint being used. Enamel i think he referred to it as?

He claimed that the old style acrylic is what needs to cure for over a month before it can be cut/polished/waxed.

Does anyone have any information whether this is true or not?

Ive always heard people say you need to give paint a couple of months before waxing etc etc

Cheers

- Patrick

[Mr. Keets]

Why would you want to? To start with a cut and polish is an agressive strategy especially on clear coat. You always start with the least agressive product even when you are experienced. I would go by the judgement of the person who painted the car.

[so_tred]

Why not just wait a month and not have to worry about it?

[Rekin]

sure i could wait around a month and avoid any risks, but i would like to know if there is a reason to wait. After all, this could be just some old procedure which has now been eliminated due to the advancements of paint technology...

[mike_a31]

Its not possible to cut and buff (polish) fresh paint unless it has been dried with a UV lamp. Even this isnt advisable. By new paint he may mean 2-pac enamel paints these need to b baked in an oven at 80deg for 40min then left to cool and cure for minimum 12 hours before it can b buffed.

If u buff paint b4 its cured it tends to be moved about by the buff or in worst case scenario can be burnt by the buffing pad and need to b painted again.

Old acrylic paint used to take days/weeks/months to cure because it required all the solvent content to evaporate out of it b4 it would become solid, new 2-pac paint cures by chemical reaction Paint + Catalyst (hardner) and will cure to a solid finish alot quicker.

Another advantage of 2-pac paint is u can achieve an "off the gun finish" meanin the paint/clearcoat will b applied in a such a way that it does not need any buffing. Acrylic paint was a nightmare to get a nice finish with and would require the entire surface to b sanded back with 2000grit sandpaper to remove the orange peel appearance then buffed to a shine.

[Rekin]

Thanks very much for the info Mike!

Reason I ask is because I'd like my car to get a full detail but i am afraid that the detail may damage the freshly painted area's of the car. (spoiler, sideskirts, frontbar)

So if its painted in 2pac enamel and given a week to cure, a full exterior detail will not cause any damage? (with a buffer)

Cheers

[frogman]

2Pac is designed to have gloss "off the gun", meaning you don't need to buff or polish it after its dry to make it shiny. Acrylic never actually dries, and needs to be buffed to get full gloss. You only need to 'cut' acrylic to remove orange peel or defects, you can buff it without rubing it back if you want.

Yes, you can cut & buff 2Pac pretty much straight after it has been baked. He would have been talking about "baked enamel" (which is old school talk, similar to 2Pac.) The only reason to cut & buff 2pac is to "de-nib" it, removing any little specs of dust that can fall into the paint when spraying/drying. Or to cut out runs or if you have stuffed it up & got too much orange peel.

This is done by using a small block and 1000-1200grit wet&dry to 'cut' or flatten the spot, then buffed with a cutting compound followed by a finer type of compound, then polished. Some people talk about show cars getting "colour sanded," when you rub the whole car back and buff it up so there isn't any peel in it. The longer you leave 2Pac to cure, the harder it is to cut back & buff up. Most smash shops will de-nib(cut & buff it only) the day after it was painted. Then polish it before giving the car back to the owner.

Every one seems to have a different tale to tell about acrylics... When I worked in smash shops I painted my fair share of cars & parts in acrylic as an apprentice. Parts, or something like a guard & door, you would paint first thing in the morning, leave it in the sun & buff in the arvo while it was still soft...if you get the right amount of heat into the panel you can flatten orange peel off ... so you wouldn't have to rub it back!

Depends on how well you painted it to how much cutting & buffing you will need to do. Usually just let it sit for a couple days then cut & buff.

I can remember respraying a silver VR Commodore in acrylic (when they were new cars, insurance companies would only accept/pay for an OEM finish.. not allowed to paint it in 2pac, ) that had been hailed on. Gave it a light cut, buffed & polished it 3 days later... no smash shop will let a car sit around for a month waiting for paint to dry.

I think the main thing people talk about when they say you shouldn't cut/polish/wax fresh paint is waxing fresh acrylic. Theoretically, the wax can seal in the thinners that is still evaporating while its fresh, causing it to 'solvent pop'. Acrylic is old tech. You will probably find that most people that talk about waxing acrylic are also old tech, or havn't painted for a while or knew someone that was a painter, or whatever...

[Rekin]

ahhh cool thanks for that.

Yeah basically the car will be waxed a couple of days after the painting and was afraid the wax would prevent the paint curing, but this only affects acrylic as you mentioned.

Cheers for all the help and I hope this thread has helped others

- Patrick

[mike_a31]

the only thing i would b cautious of if sum1 is gonna give my car a full details and this included buff all over is the person buffing has no idea how big the paint layer is and there is a possability of buffin thru the paints. But really the person would have to b pretty dam aggresive with the buff for this to happen. plus if u have freshly painted parts there will b no need for the detailed to do anythin other than give them a light hand polish.

Frogman: i Disagree with u about cut and buffin a car just after its come out of the booth. I have found that if the car isnt left for a minimum 4 hours for the paint to fully cool and cure there is a tendency for buffing and swirl marks to come back as the paint is still fully curing. I'm not sayin it cant b done cos i know it can havin done it myself b4, just sayin its summin i try to avoid doin.

[tmc_2]

Id prob wait, in my back yard stuff ups i polished a bonnet 3 hours after the clear was on and i got permanent swirls in it wrecking the finish.

Im no expert tho

[frogman]

Yeah, buffing 2pac straight out of the booth isnt the best idea...you can do it if you have to(as in: smash shop, crap car, friday arvo, gotta get it out the door!) but you dont need to wait for weeks.

It depends on how cofident(brave!) you are when it comes to acrylics, if your not sure then leave it, rather than wrecking all your work on the last step.

[seriesII]

i cut and polished my dash 7 hours after i painted it metalic silver, and came up awesome after, nice and smooth ..

[Rekin]

Spoke to another panel beater who paints in 2pak but does not bake. Says cut/polish can happen after 2 weeks.

[mike_a31]

lol thats a bit excesive dryin time.

2-pac drying times

40min @ 80deg or

12 hrs at 25deg

They r pretty much the standard dryin times for most 2 pac products.

To buff 2pac after 2 weeks would b a nightmare by that time wit will b rock solid and u will have to really work the buffing pad hard to buff out any paint defects.

[seriesII]

To buff 2pac after 2 weeks would b a nightmare by that time wit will b rock solid and u will have to really work the buffing pad hard to buff out any paint defects.

so true, my new wing was done 1 day later to get all the swirls and what not out.. came up perfect..