Pfitzner (ppg) Dog Boxes, Reliable?

[Chris Wilson]

Looking to buy PPG straight cut dog engement gear set for my circuit R33 GTS-t. They are all but unknown here in the UK, are they reliable under circuit race conditions? It will be behind a 650 BHP single turbo RB26 engine, and the car will be on narrowish slicks. No drag racing at all, mainly rolling starts. Thanks. Should anyone have a perfect kit for sale, or is able to offer a good discount on a new one, please let me know

[colbs]

dont no much about their dog sets, but a mate of mine has a straight cut helical set in his subaru which is his daily car with the occasional track use and he has had it for the last 2 years and it hasnt missed a beat..

[GTS-t VSPEC]

I know a few people who've broken theres, but whether that is due to the box or there driving it's hard to determine. With any dog engagement you'll find you have to do alot of maintenance on it.

[dontfeelcold]

dont no much about their dog sets, but a mate of mine has a straight cut helical set in his subaru which is his daily car with the occasional track use and he has had it for the last 2 years and it hasnt missed a beat..

What is a "straight cut helical set". Are only some gears replaced with upgraded ones?

[Risking]

You cant have a straight cut helical set.

Its either straight cut OR helical. Unless one the usual 1,2,3 are straight and the rest are helical??

I've used a PPG in my old S13, it seemed okay and held up just fine. It never did many K's as the car was sold before the engine was even run in.

If its a circuit car you can get away with the dog engagement. Most of the broken dog engagements Ive seen have been on street cars due to the difficult nature of changing gears.

[STATUS]

They are great we ran one in a drift car all last year with 280-odd rear wheel kilowatts and a good friend also a drifter ran one in his 30-26 with mid-high 300rwkws all with no dramas, they are virtually maintenance free if you opt for the billet selectors. the std selectors are weak and can cause issues down the track. this skyline was even liveable as a daily.

PAR dog boxes on the other hand are unreliable and i see more on workshop floors that in cars... poor truscott had his in for one event and it detonated and the boys from hyperdrive in WA have had theirs out more than its been in...

Edited March 7, 2007 by URAS

[T04GTR]

thats what ive heard to. they just keep breaking. or is that just the s15 casing being a little small.

[9krpm]

nothing is indestructible especially stuffs that were advertised so in Australia lol

My ppg gearbox has just been replaced by os giken, had almost every option in the ppg box but the heat treated parts of the gears worn out

I only do circuit track work and drive the car daily with only around 400rwkw. Bet you don't see that from stuffs from Nissan. If you don't drag race and gentle on synchro you are better off without the dogbox.

[dontfeelcold]

Did you tell PPG what had happened?

[Sydneykid]

We get our PPG dog boxes serviced every 20 hours of racing (ie; races, practise and qualifying).

cheers

[NXTIME]

define "serviced" please Gary...

[Chris Wilson]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Gary: My take on normal service for a dog box would be to inspect gears and baulk rings, and to have to change the odd baulok ring and gear due to dog face wear if they can't be reground. Can I take this as a fair assessment of their requirements or do things literally break frequently?

Are you running it as a 2WD or 4WD transmission? Thanks.

[r33_racer]

and why not go the whole hog and get a holinger 6speed. Full dog box.

[Chris Wilson]

and why not go the whole hog and get a holinger 6speed. Full dog box.

Cost! Plus I don't need more than 5 gears, to be honest. It's just a fun track day car, I don't want to get too carried away, I have a six speed sequential in the racecar, so I have pub bragging rights when needed

[STATUS]

nothing is indestructible especially stuffs that were advertised so in Australia lol

My ppg gearbox has just been replaced by os giken, had almost every option in the ppg box but the heat treated parts of the gears worn out

I only do circuit track work and drive the car daily with only around 400rwkw. Bet you don't see that from stuffs from Nissan. If you don't drag race and gentle on synchro you are better off without the dogbox.

Interesting as we broke two OSGIKEN sets before lashing out on the PPG, that said we also had the PPG box built and serviced (every year) by them.

[dontfeelcold]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Gary: My take on normal service for a dog box would be to inspect gears and baulk rings, and to have to change the odd baulok ring and gear due to dog face wear if they can't be reground. Can I take this as a fair assessment of their requirements or do things literally break frequently?

Are you running it as a 2WD or 4WD transmission? Thanks.

Aren't baulk rings are used in a syncromesh gearbox, not a dog box?

[Chris Wilson]

Aren't baulk rings are used in a syncromesh gearbox, not a dog box?

I am in the UK, here we call the dog rings baulk rings, even when they are really dog rings, IYSWIM ?

[Sydneykid]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Gary: My take on normal service for a dog box would be to inspect gears and baulk rings, and to have to change the odd baulok ring and gear due to dog face wear if they can't be reground. Can I take this as a fair assessment of their requirements or do things literally break frequently?

Are you running it as a 2WD or 4WD transmission? Thanks.

You got it, inspection, dress up the dog rings once, the next service replace them, new bearings every time, the odd selector fork (usually 3rd gear). We have both 2wd (3) and 4wd (2) non sequential 5 speeds, because sequential and 6 speeds are not allowed under the regs. I would prefer to have sequential every time, more than halves the servicing costs. So the extra cost is paid for in year 1.

We had a few niggling problem when we first started to use them, mostly with the selectors. But now the PPG dog box internals are a just like brake pads, you replace them when they are worn.

cheers

PS; Didn't Theo just do an 8 using a PPG?

[Chris Wilson]

You got it, inspection, dress up the dog rings once, the next service replace them, new bearings every time, the odd selector fork (usually 3rd gear). We have both 2wd (3) and 4wd (2) non sequential 5 speeds, because sequential and 6 speeds are not allowed under the regs. I would prefer to have sequential every time, more than halves the servicing costs. So the extra cost is paid for in year 1.

We had a few niggling problem when we first started to use them, mostly with the selectors. But now the PPG dog box internals are a just like brake pads, you replace them when they are worn.

cheers

PS; Didn't Theo just do an 8 using a PPG?

I must say I didn't realise PPG did a sequential kit. Will this fit the R33 GTS-t casing, or is it for the Getrag casing? Thanks for all your feedback SK. The stock box is slowing me down a lot. The ratios are all to pot, second is too low, I never use first save for starting off, and the change into fifth is slow, and 3 rd and 5th synchros wear out for fun. I now NEED a decent gearbox in it, a proper weld in cage to get some tortional rigidity, and some more power, which should be addressed by an all steel RB26 lump which I have nearly completed. Once the cage is in I'll be a lot happier to fit some nice carbon doors i got vac moulded here in the UK at 2.8 kilos each, with full stock pattern internal shells. I feel too vulnerable without the stock steel doors with impact bars and no cage, particularly after stuffing it sideways into the barriers at Oulton Park last year...

[dangerous_daveo]

I must say I didn't realise PPG did a sequential kit. Will this fit the R33 GTS-t casing, or is it for the Getrag casing? Thanks for all your feedback SK. The stock box is slowing me down a lot. The ratios are all to pot, second is too low, I never use first save for starting off, and the change into fifth is slow, and 3 rd and 5th synchros wear out for fun. I now NEED a decent gearbox in it, a proper weld in cage to get some tortional rigidity, and some more power, which should be addressed by an all steel RB26 lump which I have nearly completed. Once the cage is in I'll be a lot happier to fit some nice carbon doors i got vac moulded here in the UK at 2.8 kilos each, with full stock pattern internal shells. I feel too vulnerable without the stock steel doors with impact bars and no cage, particularly after stuffing it sideways into the barriers at Oulton Park last year...

LoL, and thats JUST a fun track car! Hahaha. Thats gold hey.