Ahahhahah Give Him Some Sympathy

[monkeykplunk]

Seriously,

You guys are just as bad as them.

look at half the comments in this thread.

Half the guys on that forum are decent blokes and I know quite a few, and are proper enthusiasts unlike half here.

Sure, some go on like tools which was demonstrated - but so do half you lot in a reversed situation.

A true enthusiast will respect any car with decent performance no matter what badge lies on the bonnet.

Oh, for the record, I have owned a nicely modified gen3 LS1 - its quicker than my R33 at EC track.

But now Ive spent more on my boat - it will be quicker.

Just remember - every group of car owners (skylines, xr6 turbo's, gen3 commodores, Porsche, NS.com...etc etc) has a

"tool factor" that gives the rest a bad name.

I respect all kinds of performance cars.

I have friends who have really decent SS Commodores, and the newer models actually started looking really good too.

But I am more of a Ford man, as thats pretty much what I've owned from when I was 18. I actually wish I'd never gotten rid of the XF just so I'd have something other then the 'line to drive around!

But now I'm trying to pay off the rest of the loan on the 'line so I can get an XR6T....... although I'll prob end up with a 33 GTR anyway

[scathing]

not just that but turbos work better on smaller motors u can rev longer and quicker...i think

As a general rule, FI engines will tend to rev lower than NA engines.

It costs a lot to get an engine that's strong enough to handle the pressures generated by pumping all that "extra" air and fuel into the cylinder, while being light enough to mitigate the acceleration / decelleration loads at high RPM.

It can be "fixed" with the application of lots of money and / or constant rebuilds but its hardly something you'd do on a daily driver.

[scathing]

The GEN-TT kits are killing most supercharger kits horsepower figures.

And so they should. A turbocharger is more efficient than a supercharger.

Have a look at the APS TT kit for the Gen IV powered Corvette - 700hp at the flywheel with the stock NA exhaust (which will generally be more restrictive than a FI exhaust) and internals using approx. 95RON petrol. That's not bad for 10.5psi and a very linear power curve.

Screw and Roots type superchargers also don't like being attached to high revving engines either, which the Gen III technically is (compared to most "affordable" engines of that capacity). They're great if you need a lot of power down low, but won't be as efficient as revs climb.

[scathing]

Some of the posts stated on LS1 forum members said things like "Take it on the circuit and see whose car is faster..".

Even better! I say i'd like to see those heavy V8 over steering buckets go round a corner...!

I don't see how an induction type in itself makes a car any faster or slower around a circuit.

For every shitbox-slow car with an 8 cylinder engine in a V configuration, you've got stuff like the Elfin Clubman and Streamliner before you get into Euro sedans like the E39 M5 and current Audi RS4, or coupes like the Ferrari F430.

Then of course you've got slow turbo 4's like....any Saab, or the Mark IV Golf GTi, or some of these modern hot hatches that try putting down 170kW+ through the front wheels, etc.

The fastest "production" car around the Nurburgring is a NA 4 cylinder displacing 1.3L - it doesn't have displacement nor boost yet its still over 30 seconds a lap faster than the possessor of both; a Bugatti Veyron.

[scathing]

love the "drop the turbo then we see what it can do".

ahhaah maybe he should drop 2 cylinders then we can call it even

Yeah, I f**king hate that attitude too.

Drop the turbo, then you're racing a car with less than half your displacement. That's like beating up a toddler.

How about putting a 5.0L VS SS up against an S2000 then? No turbos there? But then the V8 brigade will start whinging about how hard it revs, and tell them to drop 4000RPM....

Why don't we just pull over then, if a V8 powered car needs that much of a handicap to stay competitive?

[Modena]

Yeah, I f**king hate that attitude too.

Drop the turbo, then you're racing a car with less than half your displacement. That's like beating up a toddler.

How about putting a 5.0L VS SS up against an S2000 then? No turbos there? But then the V8 brigade will start whinging about how hard it revs, and tell them to drop 4000RPM....

Why don't we just pull over then, if a V8 powered car needs that much of a handicap to stay competitive?

haha so true...

i dont see why they get shitty, after all they drive a family car... not a sports car.

[frankxinyu]

the problem is tho the stupidity of the comments is unbelievable!!!!!!!!!

so many narrow minded red necks having a winge! thats what that is.

i can not see any respect given to any cars other than holden.

this sounds like a bogan i ran into, he said:

if you want power and performance, buy a commodore. if you want a comfy ride and pull chicks, buy a skyline.

lol

[Intensevil]

The skyline pulls chicks, the commodore pulls trailers

[BAMR33]

Haha someone should link this thread to that topic in the ls1 forum

[MK2]

Lots of laughs there

[scathing]

i dont see why they get shitty, after all they drive a family car... not a sports car.

Not a big fan of that attitude either.

Holdens and Fords are built as sports sedans, within their reasonably small budget. While they're not bespoke sports cars, Skyline coupes (especially the 2WD variety) aren't a track day special either. The cars aren't built as pure commuter vehicles like a Maxima or a Camry, but at the same time their outright drivability is compromised by the necessity in the design brief to carry passengers and do things Australian families want to do (which is apparently to tow shit).

Is the M5 a sports car? Its built off a cooking model commuter machine and hotted up with go-faster bits. In principle its no different to a HSV - the only difference is in the amount of money thrown at it. I'm sure Holden could build a beast of a GTS if they could charge AUD$200K+ for it and sell it on every continent of the world to improve the economies of scale.

When it boils down to it...if your car has more than 1-2 seats, a stereo, sound deadening, air conditioning, or any other kind of creature comfort, then in reality its lugging weight that isn't there to make your car go, stop or turn faster (i.e. ballast). If said ballast was not put in there by homologation or racing requirements, then you're not driving a sports car....because sports cars don't willingly carry ballast.

Which means unless you're driving an Elise, Clubman, or stripped out clubsport vehicle (911 GT3 RS, Ferrari 360 CS, M3 CSL, F40, etc) then you're not driving a sports car either.

The HSV product, in my opinion, is a great grand tourer. If I needed 4 door / 5 seat practicality while still wanting to go out for a spirited drive occasionally, and couldn't afford an Audi RS4 / BMW M5, then I'd buy one for sure over the likes of a V35 sedan / Honda Legend / Ralliart Magna.

[evil_weevil]

summed it up pretty well scathing

[racsov500]

oi pot! your a black c**t! -kettle

[Intensevil]

It's a GT car, not a sports car.

Sports cars =

mx5

rx7

rx8

skyline coupe

350z

m3

corvette

GT car =

HSV Clubsport

FPV typhoon

m5

Cosmo

Soarer

So while it may be a fast car, it's not a drivers car, thats the difference between the two

[scathing]

The 350Z is a GT. As is the Skyline coupe. I'd say the M3 is, too. They're all too heavy and soft to be a true sports car. They're quick, but they're not focused enough.

I'd be more inclined to call a Silvia or Integra a sports car than a Skyline or a FairladyZ.

[ras1983]

The 350Z is a GT. As is the Skyline coupe. I'd say the M3 is, too. They're all too heavy and soft to be a true sports car. They're quick, but they're not focused enough.

I'd be more inclined to call a Silvia or Integra a sports car than a Skyline or a FairladyZ.

i dunno, i wouldn't call a GT-R soft.

[scathing]

I was thinking more of the 2WD coupes.

Regardless, we all know the red R stands for racing. What does the rest of the acronym mean? Those 2 letters preceding the R sound awfully familiar though.......as if someone had mentioned them before........

[ras1983]

I was thinking more of the 2WD coupes.

Regardless, we all know the red R stands for racing. What does the rest of the acronym mean? Those 2 letters preceding the R sound awfully familiar though.......as if someone had mentioned them before........

ok i see where you are coming from.

[Forged]

It's a GT car, not a sports car.

Sports cars =

mx5

rx7

rx8

skyline coupe

corvette

GT car =

HSV Clubsport

FPV typhoon

m5

if you want to get picky about it, they are not GT cars either. According to EVO magazine (a quite reputable bunch of guys who pretty much have driven everything on wheels from skylines to veyrons).

GT cars have 2 doors, 2 or 4 seats and a closed roof, for example; Aston Martin DB9, Continental GT, M3, M6, Z06, Lotus Exige, NSX, Rx7, Skyline GTR, Cayman, 911 and etc.

Sports Cars are 2 seats and open top cars like; AC Cobra, Z4, S2000, Lotus Elise, Mx-5, SLK, 350Z roadster, Boxster, MR2 and etc.

As for the likes of HSV GTS, FPV, M5, RS4, E63, EVO IX and WRX, they are Sport Saloons or Performance Sedans.

I think this is a better way to classify all these cars (if you really have to) instead of the endless debating over whether skylines are more of a sports car than XR6 turbos. they are all performance cars, just in different shapes and forms.

Edited March 21, 2007 by Forged

[scathing]

GT cars have 2 doors, 2 or 4 seats and a closed roof, for example; Aston Martin DB9, Continental GT, M3, M6, Z06, Lotus Exige, NSX, Rx7, Skyline GTR, Cayman, 911 and etc.

I don't think that a Lotus Elise is particularly grand in size, nor is it any good at "touring".

I consider a GT car to be something that's swift rather than rapid, and with a modicum of comfort. It is enjoyable, but its not the raw experience a "proper" sports car is. They should cruise, rather than race. Aston Martins and Jaguars are great examples of GTs. They won't come first on a mountain road or circuit, but they're still a tactile drive and you won't get to the end needing a chiro for your back and a shower for the sweat.

Sports Cars are 2 seats and open top cars like; AC Cobra, Z4, S2000, Lotus Elise, Mx-5, SLK, 350Z roadster, Boxster, MR2 and etc.

....and the Opel (Holden) Tigra?

The way I see it, any car that was engineered as an open top is a roadster. Any car that was designed as a hard top, and then had the roof cut off, is a convertible.

Any sports car should be a driver's car. It shouldn't matter how many doors or seats it has - its primary focus is driver enjoyment and pace around the bends (to rule out luxobarge sleds like the AMG S65 or Rolls Royce Phantom). Whether its some cushy barge like a Jag or a bare bones corner carver like an Elise, the point is that the driver (rather than the passengers) come first in the design brief.