Coilover Question - Teins Ha

[lanky71]

Hi All,

I am looking at getting some Teins HA coilovers second hand ones, and even though they appear to be in good condition I was wondering if the springs are replaceable like in the other coilover brands like G4's.

Also any input on whether they are any good for daily driving, etc would be appreciated.

My Car '98 R34 GT-T Sedan.

My car is a daily driver but would like it to handle a bit better, and noticed my rear suspension is starting to go car has 75000km on the clock and i have had it since 45000km since last August so I do a fair amount of driving. I don't want it to be so stiff that its uncomfortable as I drive 1hr to work each day mainly freeway but some traffic at each end.

Was interested in SydneyKids setup but at the moment $2k is out of the question, looking around the $1k mark.

The car might hit the track very occassionaly but mainly want something for street use better then stock suspension.

Drew.

[evil_weevil]

Drew - When you say Sydney kids deal for 2k...what do you want/need?

I paid just over 1700 for springs, shocks, front and rear sway bars and front adjustable castor.

And car feels absolutely awesome.

I could take you for a ride in it sometime? sure its in a 33, but could give you an idea?

[lanky71]

Drew - When you say Sydney kids deal for 2k...what do you want/need?

I paid just over 1700 for springs, shocks, front and rear sway bars and front adjustable castor.

And car feels absolutely awesome.

I could take you for a ride in it sometime? sure its in a 33, but could give you an idea?

Here is the quote I got:

Nissan Skyline

R34GTT

73175 Front Springs $ 144.00

73176 Rear Springs $ 144.00

Front Bilstein Shocks $ 476.00

Rear Bilstein Shocks $ 476.00

BNF24Z Front stabiliser bar adj $ 219.00

BNR11XZ Rear stabiliser bar adj $ 219.00

KCA331 Caster Kit $ 110.00

KCA348 Front Camber kit $ 183.00

KCA347 Rear Camber Kit $ 123.00

KCA349 Rear Subframe alignment kit $ 105.00

W0921 Bump Stop & Dust Cover X 2 $ 102.00

Freight

Sub Total $2,301.00

Less extra 5% $ 115.05

Total $2,185.95

Will have to go for a ride to compare, i spotted some used teins ha for $750.. so figured even if i need to replace spings in a couple of months it would work out more cost effective... but need input as i know very little bout suspension.

[evil_weevil]

hmm....

My guess - would you need all those components for daily use?

I mean if it were a dedicated track car yes.

And if those parts you are looking at are 2nd hand - would they need rebuilding later on?

and cost for that?

And what sort of settings can you get from those parts different/similar to syd kids?

I guess we'll have to wait for Syd kid to reply

[Trust33]

got to agree with chris..having the whole package is great.

But for a start coilovers are the way to go.at the track a whiteline handelilng pack will save you a couple of sec per lap.depending on how good of a driver you are and what tyres you use..

Also you should have the whole setup aligned properly.you dont want -3deg front right and +1 deg front left.itd be a bitch to drive on the limit and the tyres would wear unevenly.

[lanky71]

hmm....

My guess - would you need all those components for daily use?

I mean if it were a dedicated track car yes.

And if those parts you are looking at are 2nd hand - would they need rebuilding later on?

and cost for that?

And what sort of settings can you get from those parts different/similar to syd kids?

I guess we'll have to wait for Syd kid to reply

The idea is the have the car setup for daily driving but also able to be quite capable on the track, hence why i was asking about coilovers because of the ability to adjust stiffness, height, etc... Yeah will have to wait for sydkid

got to agree with chris..having the whole package is great.

But for a start coilovers are the way to go.at the track a whiteline handelilng pack will save you a couple of sec per lap.depending on how good of a driver you are and what tyres you use..

Also you should have the whole setup aligned properly.you dont want -3deg front right and +1 deg front left.itd be a bitch to drive on the limit and the tyres would wear unevenly.

Do you have any opinion or thoughts on the G4's that JustJap have? $1400 for a brand new set doesn't seem too bad.

[STATUS]

HA's are fairly old now considering they have been superceeded for about 3-4 years now. It would be a fair risk buying them 2nd hand.

[lanky71]

HA's are fairly old now considering they have been superceeded for about 3-4 years now. It would be a fair risk buying them 2nd hand.

Oh Ok, thanks.. didn't realize they were that old. I thought last year or something.

[evil_weevil]

Drew, with my set up - I do on average 10 days a year at the track - first time I had stock standard suspension - fun but was...well....slower than my old VT commodore!!!

first step I did the springs and shocks from syd kid

car felt alot more alive! and handled better, much better!

now Ive got the sway bars and castor it should do much better, but also - tyre choices now come into play.

so on the easter sat track day, my car with just those mods, I feel will increase corner speed and reduce body roll, lowering my lap times.

EC in my VT LS1 did 2.02 (FE2 suspension, king springs, kings camber kit (rear),whiteline front strut brace)

In my line did around 2:09 standard suspension

so if I dont get under 2:02....there is something wrong with my driving

So my question is - 2nd hand suspension might be cheap short term, but long term, rebuild?replacement?

Might be worth it to pay that little bit extra and get brand newies - such as the group buy?

Anyhoo - I prob have no idea so Im off hehehe

[Sydneykid]

The idea is the have the car setup for daily driving but also able to be quite capable on the track, hence why i was asking about coilovers because of the ability to adjust stiffness, height, etc... Yeah will have to wait for sydkid

Do you have any opinion or thoughts on the G4's that JustJap have? $1400 for a brand new set doesn't seem too bad.

I am not sure how to answer .................let's try this

Stabiliser bars are the best bang for buck suspension upgrade you can make for improved handling. Road or track. Ask any suspension engineer and they will tell you that. There is simply no better way of adjusting a cars handling balance. It's why race cars from the lowest to the highest have driver adjustable stabilser bars. So any quest for handling improvement should START with stabiliser bars.

Next is alignment, getting the largest contact patch for the tyres to the road. That means caster and camber settings. It's no good having 245 tyres if only 150 mm of them actually touches the road, in a straight line, for accelerating, for braking or for going around corners.

The next most important bit is shock absorbers. Adjustable shocks are only worthwhile if you know what you are doing with the adjustments. Most of the time shocks have adjustment to cover up for their unsophisticated valving. This means they only work in a small range of conditions and so they have to have the adjustment. Bilsteins have very sophisticated valving and consequently have a large window that they operate well in. Simply put, they don't need adjusting. Plus I have selected the valving to suite the Group Buy kit.

LAST yes last, is springs. Car manufacturers very rarely get it wrong with spring rates, especially for sporty cars like Skylines. You really only need change the springs if you want a lower ride height. Keep in mind that the Bilsteins in the Group Buy come with additional circlip grooves which enable you to lower it using the standard springs. Around 24 mm works very well. There are 6 grooves 8 mm apart and I can tell you the height that you will get from each groove. Keep in mind that GTST's handle best around 350 mm front and 340 mm rear (centre of wheel to guard).

So what I suggest for guys doing the odd bit of track work, is to have adjustable stabiliser bars and then learn the 4 or 5 settings that they provide. The rules of thumb are simple;

1. Less understeer = more rear bar and/or less front bar

2. Less oversteer = less rear bar and/or more front bar

3. More oversteer = more rear bar and/or less front bar

4. More understeer = less rear bar and/or more front bar

It takes less than 10 minutes to adjust the bars while you have the car jacked up to put your track tyres on (if you have them). If not, you can do it the day/night/week before you go to a track day.

I hope that answered your questions, if not please just ask.

cheers

[R DIRTY 3]

If you buy the secondhand HA Teins, chances are in the long run it will cost you more than 2k anyway because you will change the coils to get a softer rate, then they will leak etc due to age, so a rebuild will be required and the spending continues!!

Buy something new that you know will last especaially with the KM you are covering. Bilsteins should be good for at least 150,000+km before due to replace.

[madaz R33]

Hi, i also have a question relating to coilovers,i have a R33 gtst 93, i have noticed the front suspensinon is sagging and places i used to get in and out of easy, i am now scuffing the bottom of my front bar, so i have deciede i need to rectify this and have found a set of pro circuit hks height and dampering and rebound adjustable coilovers, the only prob is that 10kg and 8kg, too dam stiff? it is a daily driver but my mods are well under way so i can enjoy it more and go to the occasional track day, the history of these coilovers are they were bought from yahoo auctions in Japan for a customer who made a deposit and never returned for the, they appear in very good cond with minnimal usage, and the price i am able to obtain them for is v good, will i feel every single bump on the road, will it be uncomftable for passengers me in the long run? will i get sick of it and go back to standards? is it a case of sacrificing comfort for drivability? the other reason i am asking this is i am just about to fork out the $$ for them and i have also purchused a new a/m front bar and dont want it scraped to buggery, any info you could give me asap would be really appreciated, thanx in advance Damo

Edited March 17, 2007 by madaz R33

[R DIRTY 3]

Hi, i also have a question relating to coilovers,i have a R33 gtst 93, i have noticed the front suspensinon is sagging and places i used to get in and out of easy, i am now scuffing the bottom of my front bar, so i have deciede i need to rectify this and have found a set of pro circuit hks height and dampering and rebound adjustable coilovers, the only prob is that 10kg and 8kg, too dam stiff? it is a daily driver but my mods are well under way so i can enjoy it more and go to the occasional track day, the history of these coilovers are they were bought from yahoo auctions in Japan for a customer who made a deposit and never returned for the, they appear in very good cond with minnimal usage, and the price i am able to obtain them for is v good, will i feel every single bump on the road, will it be uncomftable for passengers me in the long run? will i get sick of it and go back to standards? is it a case of sacrificing comfort for drivability? the other reason i am asking this is i am just about to fork out the $$ for them and i have also purchused a new a/m front bar and dont want it scraped to buggery, any info you could give me asap would be really appreciated, thanx in advance Damo

In my opinion these coilsovers are a bad choice for you no matter what cost they are.

The rates are way way to strong for a daily driven car. You may be able to change the rates, but to drop to where you need it to be you will have to do a revalve aswell. Its all just money of course.

Alternatively, find something more suited to what you are using the car for with softer rates. Tein super street'a are designed for road and club truck use if you are definately wanting a japanese coilover.

[Forged]

Hi SydneyKid:

What is the optimum ride height for an R34 GTT coupe? I am thinking about getting these Bilstein shocks from the group buy, but how well does the standard springs work with bilstein shocks? are they still a comprimise compared to the springs you offer? I only want to decrease the body roll a little for corners and reduce the ride height for appearance sack, but still want to do it the right way. and I mainly use the car for street. would you still recommend stabiliser bars for what i want? would factory stabiliser bars and springs work well with just bilstein shocks?

thanks

I am not sure how to answer .................let's try this

Stabiliser bars are the best bang for buck suspension upgrade you can make for improved handling. Road or track. Ask any suspension engineer and they will tell you that. There is simply no better way of adjusting a cars handling balance. It's why race cars from the lowest to the highest have driver adjustable stabilser bars. So any quest for handling improvement should START with stabiliser bars.

Next is alignment, getting the largest contact patch for the tyres to the road. That means caster and camber settings. It's no good having 245 tyres if only 150 mm of them actually touches the road, in a straight line, for accelerating, for braking or for going around corners.

The next most important bit is shock absorbers. Adjustable shocks are only worthwhile if you know what you are doing with the adjustments. Most of the time shocks have adjustment to cover up for their unsophisticated valving. This means they only work in a small range of conditions and so they have to have the adjustment. Bilsteins have very sophisticated valving and consequently have a large window that they operate well in. Simply put, they don't need adjusting. Plus I have selected the valving to suite the Group Buy kit.

LAST yes last, is springs. Car manufacturers very rarely get it wrong with spring rates, especially for sporty cars like Skylines. You really only need change the springs if you want a lower ride height. Keep in mind that the Bilsteins in the Group Buy come with additional circlip grooves which enable you to lower it using the standard springs. Around 24 mm works very well. There are 6 grooves 8 mm apart and I can tell you the height that you will get from each groove. Keep in mind that GTST's handle best around 350 mm front and 340 mm rear (centre of wheel to guard).

So what I suggest for guys doing the odd bit of track work, is to have adjustable stabiliser bars and then learn the 4 or 5 settings that they provide. The rules of thumb are simple;

1. Less understeer = more rear bar and/or less front bar

2. Less oversteer = less rear bar and/or more front bar

3. More oversteer = more rear bar and/or less front bar

4. More understeer = less rear bar and/or more front bar

It takes less than 10 minutes to adjust the bars while you have the car jacked up to put your track tyres on (if you have them). If not, you can do it the day/night/week before you go to a track day.

I hope that answered your questions, if not please just ask.

cheers

Edited March 17, 2007 by Forged

[Sydneykid]

Hi SydneyKid:

What is the optimum ride height for an R34 GTT coupe? I am thinking about getting these Bilstein shocks from the group buy, but how well does the standard springs work with bilstein shocks? are they still a comprimise compared to the springs you offer? I only want to decrease the body roll a little for corners and reduce the ride height for appearance sack, but still want to do it the right way. and I mainly use the car for street. would you still recommend stabiliser bars for what i want? would factory stabiliser bars and springs work well with just bilstein shocks?

thanks

Suggestions to your questions follow;

Nissan cut the guard heights the same on R32/33/34's, so the centre of wheel to guard measurements pretty much transfer from car to car. With the exception of the 4wd's, they need to be 5 mm higher for front driveshaft reasons.

The standard springs with Bilsteins shocks works very well. Add stabilser bars and the correct alignment settings and the result is good handling with almost standard ride comfort. I have done many cars using this method.

The Whiteline springs have slight higher rates than the standard springs (20% to 25%), so they are not harsh or rough riding. They are also lowered, so you can achieve around 10 mm lower than you can with the standard springs using the additional circlip grooves.

Stabiliser bars control the roll, that's their job. Springs hold the car up and absorb bumps, that's their job. The alignment products (caster and camber) keep the tyre contact patch at the optimum for improved traction. Each part does its job, that's why the total results are so good (take a loook at the feedback on the Group Buy threads).

cheers

[lanky71]

So using the blistein shocks and lowering springs i can achieve better handling and almost stock comfort with also the car being lower? As I do want it lower but mainly for cosmetic reasons unless it also can improve the handling.

[siddr20]

^^ you will acheive better handling with SK's setup. He has engineered the best settings for you with these shocks and springs.

Plus your car will sit lower than stock height!!

Theres about 8 circlip type grooves, so you can go even lower than the suggested sk height..

Just wish i had the money to buy my set

Edited March 18, 2007 by siddr20

[Sydneykid]

So using the blistein shocks and lowering springs i can achieve better handling and almost stock comfort with also the car being lower? As I do want it lower but mainly for cosmetic reasons unless it also can improve the handling.

A simply summary;

Group Buy Bilstein shocks with standard springs - almost standard ride comfort, better handling and around 25 mm lowering (max). No camber correction kits usually required.

Group Buy Bilstein shocks with Whiteline springs - sporty ride, not uncomfortable, better handling again and around 40 mm lowering (recommended). You will need camber correction kits at the recommended height.

The full Group Buy kit = sporty ride, not uncomfortable, superb handling and around 40 mm lowering (recommended).

cheers

[lanky71]

A simply summary;

Group Buy Bilstein shocks with standard springs - almost standard ride comfort, better handling and around 25 mm lowering (max). No camber correction kits usually required.

Group Buy Bilstein shocks with Whiteline springs - sporty ride, not uncomfortable, better handling again and around 40 mm lowering (recommended). You will need camber correction kits at the recommended height.

The full Group Buy kit = sporty ride, not uncomfortable, superb handling and around 40 mm lowering (recommended).

cheers

Okies, I get it now.

Thanks.

*** Runs off to start saving more cash quickly... ***