Sau V Ns

[T04GTR]

How can you say its inferior in stock form? What do std turbo S13/14s make at the wheels? My point is a motor will only be as good as the gear Nissan gave it at the factory. In which case look at the R31 GTSR. There are RB20 with std turbo and intercoolers making 250rwkws

on the bottle? lol

of all the years ive been in the silvia scene, i only know of 1 broken rocker. whats wrong with the chain drive ?!

not surprisingly there is alot of bias here

youve been hiding then. keep it under 6800 and they be fine. but thats where the fun starts.

not all of them do hehe ok, all the longitudinal ones do. but happines is just an RNN14 head away.

trent: I don't really know the gun SR shops in melb. but you would want someone who knows there shit installing liners that big. I'm guessing they will need to be frozen too and maybe the block heated in an oil bath and they may go in without too much hassle.

they all have rockers but. but i think the sr20ve is a good unit. out of the p11 primera (individual v-tec for inlet and exhaust) or p12 primera where it was vtec for both at the same time. but htese engines used a single counter crank not full counter for wieght saving to rev. pitty there a front wheel drive motor. but the haeds are adaptable with singnificant mods.

[T04GTR]

oh. and since when is a 3.5 litre oil capacity good!!! lol.

[T04GTR]

ps.. id like to see a sr20 do 250000 kms and still make good power and have good compression hehe

[Rolls]

on the bottle? lol

They'd make 230rwkw with a remap, exhaust, boost increase and fueling to suit. Came with a TO4 from factory.

Edited April 14, 2007 by Rolls

[Roy]

on the bottle? lol

I know of two that are making over 250rwkws with std turbo engine. One may have internals but looking at its off boost rpm it doesnt look to be a stroker and it seems to be a std motor. The other one made that power happily until it was rebuilt for a shake at Targa Tas. They are strong things anf the Gp A motors didnt have a whole lot of exotic things done to them to make 420hp

[mokompri]

youve been hiding then. keep it under 6800 and they be fine. but thats where the fun starts.

on the contrary

ive seen plenty of sr's have 8K rpm limits, and some with more on solid lifters. the lifters are an issue before the rockers are (with the rb20 & 25 having HLA's as well). ones who break them, either miss a gear or are just unlucky, its not the 'norm'.

i revved mine to 7600 all the time, no problems. in fact i was bouncing off the limiter plenty on my first skid pan day

and you didnt explain the problem with the chain drive, and why the belt system is 'superior'... maybe its lower maintenance requirement is a downfall ?...

[Roy]

I dont understand all the talk about hydraulic lifters. Sure i woul drather solid lifters, but at 16psi and 8,600rpm its not a problem in my RB20

[croat]

Roy that rb sounds very nice above..

I have been in both a sr and rb20 equipped s13 and am more impressed with the sr20. rb20 would have more potential if you were willing to spend the $$ and in my opinion sounds much much better than the sr. i find the sr a much more punchy engine with better response than the rb20.

[Beer Baron]

Every SR20 has rockers, GTiR use solid lifters rather then hydrlic (spelling). I dont see the big drama with rockers unless you want to rev over 9000. They have benifites like you can fit massive cams with no modification to head etc.

yeah, good point! i didn't read garys post properly and now i look like I was dropped on my head at birth.

but yeah, I thought he was taking a stab at the SR hydraulic lifters. and yes, I meant to point out that GTI-R SR use solid post, and you are right, they all have rocker arms to actuate the valve. none are direct like RBs. and you are also right in that with solid lifters and good springs etc you can still happily rev to 8000 maybe just add some rocker arm stoppers for insurance for when they do try to fly off.

[GeeTR]

Good to see someone compared an RB30 to a 2JZ......always good to compare an engine origionally designed as a diesel to an over engineered freak

*Wheezy watches the pot stir

I was talking about the square bore x stroke at 86mm in I6 configurations; meaning a 25/26 head on 30 block.

Sorry if confusing, obviousally the 30 head has no place in this discussion - Was in no way comparing a RB to a 2JZ

M

[femno]

Geez i love that video! Thats one thing i think makes the Rb alot better to drive, it can bounce off the rev limiter all day whereas i dont think an SR will last as long...

[GeeTR]

Owdy

I’m super glad this thread didn’t dissolve into everyone grading RB’s as the wholly more superior option on the basis of its classic straight 6 trumpet note Lifters and rockers are good examples of issues in the low to medium power levels I feel, only in the upper echelons does crank tunnel trueness and cylinder sleeve rigidity crop up.

I love the SR as a motor, as I love the 350z… that is I don’t, but I respect the fact it fiscally brought Nissan back from the brink of bankruptcy, loosing light RWD cars like the Silvia’s were unfortunate causalities.

The SR20DET wore many hats and allowed many interesting cars to be created, GTiR, Bluebird and some 4WD thing in Japland I forget the name of. What I’m slowly trying to get at though, is that in the long run, and long receipt world, pouring cash into a SR doesn’t haven’t have a high rate of return when your talking serious power. Saying the SR is a better motor as it makes more power for less $$ in the initial stages, is like rocking up to the Iron Chief, loosing, and proclaiming with a frothy scream that the Chicken flavored Magi Noodles was the ace choice due to prep time 

I’m not so sure bout those that say the HLA and rockers are fine for sub 9K red line limits. I agree, you can get away with running much deeper lift (oxy-moron) cams without head mods; I think this is a downfall as iv heard of many people bending, fracturing rockers with 270 / 11mm cams. I haven’t done myself, though I’m lead to believe that little relief of the RB head is required to fit 10.5mm+ lift cams, surely not an issue when you take into consideration all the work that people doing to even $6K rebuilds.

SR’s never win over the RB in my books, in terms of medium to higher power ( with reliability in mind)

What it does do, is produce a lot of bang for your “initial” buck ( refer to previous thread comment on being able to spool turbos that a RB20 would have issues with) and is available in many exciting chassis’s. At the expense of another awful analogy, and or coming across like im a “know it all auto engineer / street racer twat” I rest my case. Two VERY different motors with clear boundary’s of capability and automotive social inequity.

… *ponders* “What swarf I can come up with, Feeck, Id stand up for that sweet harmonic 1/3 360o trumpet note any day…” *cough - shuffle*

-Michael

[someonestolecc]

There's no objective answer.

Personally I'd take a SR in most cases because it howls like a freight train, is shorter, seems to have more torque throughout and doesn't require dropping a gear as much.... it really is the ghetto fighter.

I get the impression that the rb20 is a bit of a high society engine, all quiet and refined... and it sounds f**king great! So maybe it gets a run in my preferences in some circumstances

Either way they can be both made to go 230rwkw in bolt on mods (maybe add cams for the sr). So.. horses for courses. Go drive both and see which you prefer... oh and if you want over 240rwkw's then the sr20/rb20's don't cut it.. RB25 or other in this case.

Oh.. recently CEF11E took me for a spin in his 230-240rwkw rb20 and boy was I surprised - his car was the exception of driving rb20's with no torque under 3k rpm. His engine seemed to be almost (maybe 200rpm) as low-down-torquey as my ol' SR, and as it got on the juice it f**king screamed, was almost like a rb25.

[GTR1993]

I think people are loosing the point.

More cubes will always win in the power game, end of story. SR20 is a good motor with good support and is in my opinion underrated by the purists because its alloy blocked and has rockers. RB has its fair share of problems as in oil control and oil pump failures. In my opinion if you can fit a 4 cylinder use the sr, if you can fit the rb use that. (or the JZ series but thats another argument ) But why on earth would you go backwards when go fowards, dont put a 2L 4 banger in a skyline when you can have a 3L 6.

If iw as to build a motor again for outright power, ill say now it wouldnt be RB or SR, just go for the biggest cubed motor you can fit, add hair dryers and be done with it.

Also alot of the problems people have with rocker arms is not enough valve spring force, as soon as you let the rocker float and it slaps on the cam it WILL snap no question, keep it in contact and it will be fine.

I own both a high strung SR20 and a mildly modded 26 and the rb makes power easily, just depends what suits YOUR application.

[Wheezy]

I was talking about the square bore x stroke at 86mm in I6 configurations; meaning a 25/26 head on 30 block.

Sorry if confusing, obviousally the 30 head has no place in this discussion - Was in no way comparing a RB to a 2JZ

M

Well it uses rocker arms like an SR20 but yeah theres no place,

as mentioned I just like stirring the pot.

[GeeTR]

Well it uses rocker arms like an SR20 but yeah theres no place,

as mentioned I just like stirring the pot.

By all means, light hearted pot stirring is wot the best discussions are all about! LoL

No place though, for the 30, as in head flow.

I was more comparing the classic stroke'y nature of the SR with the iron block / 6 / cam on shim RB. Combining attributes.

These discussions always get me thinking bout actually making my dream engine. A custom I6 block, CNC cut from chunk of $5000 alloy. Design your own water jackets, use a head similar to the 2JZ though with conventional intake on drivers side, exhaust on passenger, with a way under square billet crank, though closer to 3L capacity. Magine then bolting that to one of the best production car 4WD around... ATTESA...

If only the $$$

arrgh, zzZzzZ time

- M

[GeeTR]

I think people are loosing the point.

More cubes will always win in the power game, end of story. SR20 is a good motor with good support and is in my opinion underrated by the purists because its alloy blocked and has rockers. RB has its fair share of problems as in oil control and oil pump failures. In my opinion if you can fit a 4 cylinder use the sr, if you can fit the rb use that. (or the JZ series but thats another argument ) But why on earth would you go backwards when go fowards, dont put a 2L 4 banger in a skyline when you can have a 3L 6.

If iw as to build a motor again for outright power, ill say now it wouldnt be RB or SR, just go for the biggest cubed motor you can fit, add hair dryers and be done with it.

Also alot of the problems people have with rocker arms is not enough valve spring force, as soon as you let the rocker float and it slaps on the cam it WILL snap no question, keep it in contact and it will be fine.

I own both a high strung SR20 and a mildly modded 26 and the rb makes power easily, just depends what suits YOUR application.

Sorry if im whoring thread, but this engine dynamic sh*t is the crux of why i love this hobby.

You've made some awesome summary's GTR1993. RB and SR that are fixed to an extent when modding hard. Lets not talk bout the JZ's. Outright power isnt really a goal around import forms, otherwise we'd all be using big blocks and truck tahbins.

Sall bout applications. I figure...

- Type of driving style you want = chassis, then power plant then sus settings etc.

[Kaomech]

I went from my CA to RB in my S13...

reason... well simply put after 6 months researching i came to the conclusion the RB was the better motor...

the way i see it is 6cyl vs. 4... doesnt matter how new the SR's technology has become its still a 4 and will always stress alot more under higher loads.

Reliability issues so far with the RB... Nil...

Handling issues... The difference is noticeable but you become accustomed to it and the handling isn't severed anyways with the right suspension set up to even it all out... its 70kgs heavier in the front over the CA according to my weighbridge cert....

10psi all day every day... the RB's been through cruises and hell in the summer heat wisemans ferry she still didnt skip a beat...

although RB's get real hot in an s13 nothing 2x 12" thermo and a stock radiator doesn't fix anyways...

Personally id vote RB ...

Same power as SR perhaps.... difference.... the RB was built to handle more reliably... they are cheap to replace, and best of all the sound it makes no worked SR makes that sound... but then again ive heard some shit exhausts so perhaps its just my cannon ... lol...

[Beer Baron]

holy shit! A stock RB can take 10psi from a stock turbo on a cruise?! damn they must be bullet proof.

i'm sorry, but it cracked me up.

[psybic]

The torque of a hi-comp SR20 ( yes, na block, turbo head, t28, microtech, exhaust, na cams, and thats all ) was very impressive in my S12.

Very snappy and responsive to drive.

moved to Stock RB25 - was very sluggish and didn't feel powerful until hi revs.

Now I have a CA with similar mods to the SR, except a bigger turbo and not hi-comp. very very laggy, same peak power, but no response.

The feeling I got from the RB25 in the R33 was that it was similar to the CA for power delivery, smooth and always increasing... however, this could be due to setups... even so, the SR was my pick for sure, very very good response!

Ofcourse, just like everyone else, my experiences only included one stock RB25, a stock RB26, a modified SR and a modified CA, so I dunno, are you after stock vs stock, or a drift car, or a drag car..etc