Which Coilovers Would You Choose?

[djr81]

How about some of these....

http://store.yahoo.co.jp/mudjayson/suspjpn-bils-nissan.html

Specifically:

http://store.yahoo.co.jp/mudjayson/bps-jpn4.html

[Sydneykid]

How about some of these....

http://store.yahoo.co.jp/mudjayson/bps-jpn4.html

Only available for R33GTR and R34GTR, no other models.

The specification is different for Australia, much more sensible spring rates than Japan.

cheers

[djr81]

Only available for R33GTR and R34GTR, no other models.

The specification is different for Australia, much more sensible spring rates than Japan.

cheers

Well I am confused (there is alot of it about at the moment) because the listing specifically mentions R32 & even the build dates from 8/89 to 04.

I would have thought with the adjustability of the damper you could pretty much chuck whatever spring you liked at it.

[Sydneykid]

Well I am confused (there is alot of it about at the moment) because the listing specifically mentions R32 & even the build dates from 8/89 to 04.

I would have thought with the adjustability of the damper you could pretty much chuck whatever spring you liked at it.

I get about 20 PM's a week about adjustable Bilsteins for R32's, when the guys ask the Ebayer for them, they suddenly don't have any. I have, on my engineering computer, every shock absorber EVER made by Bilstein, and they most definitely are not on there. The part number is for R33GTR and R34GTR only. The R32GTR part number is for non adjustable.

The Bilstein valving and adjustment accommodates a good range of spring rates, that's not the problem. The issue is you get Japanese spring rates when you buy them from Japan, if you buy them locally you get Australian spring rates. So there is extra cost when you buy them from Japan and then buying the Australian springs. At Group Buy prices this outways any cost advantage in buying them from Japan.

cheers

[alexk]

Get some tein super street aussie spec, 5kg front and 4 kg back. Also if your not happy, you can get pretty much any spring rate and have them revalved (and rebuilt) here in aus without a hassel. if your doing more track work, i would not recommend the group buy.

EDIT: I saw the light and bought some bilsteins / eibach combo!

[Sydneykid]

Get some tein super street aussie spec, 5kg front and 4 kg back. Also if your not happy, you can get pretty much any spring rate and have them revalved (and rebuilt) here in aus without a hassel.

But that costs more money. Plus how does he know what are the right spring rates to ask for?

if your doing more track work, i would not recommend the group buy.

Why?

The Group Buy kit seemed OK for the 2005 NSW State Speed Event Champion.

So far my R32GTST has never been bettered by another Skyline (of any model) at an SAU event.

An R33GTST with a Group Buy Kit won the first round of the AASA 2007 Championship for JDM cars at QIR.

etc

cheers

[Roy]

LOL..pains me to say this. But, make that NSW SAU. We are weak

The quick SAU guys are in Vic. The VIC GTRs have a great recipe for going quick and are quicker then improved production cars (Yes i know they dont comply with any regs so on merit should be quicker without restrictors etc) But the fact is quick is quick. Giant in QLD punches with the Vic boys. I want to see a R32 GTSt beating them...oh, i so badly want to see that. But it wont be me So up to you SK

Was the 2005 Champion you refer to the Supersprint Champion? Class Champion? Was it the red R33 with GCG turb etc?

You could add to that list my car which came 3rd in the SAU-Vic Club Sprint Championship, and won the Mod RWD class. But that was winning a thrown fight as the cars and experience of the guys i was up against, well, like i said thrown fight. I suspect that JDM thing was similar. The title itself is not testimont to how great my car is in the suspension department. Its great on the street, and capable on the track. But it does take some driving and as you would be aware there is room for improvement.

I hope to very soon come to a much better arrangment, more track orientated with the comprimise being for street Then see how close a lowly R32 with RB20 can get to these Vic GTRs

[alexk]

But that costs more money. Plus how does he know what are the right spring rates to ask for?

Why?

The Group Buy kit seemed OK for the 2005 NSW State Speed Event Champion.

So far my R32GTST has never been bettered by another Skyline (of any model) at an SAU event.

An R33GTST with a Group Buy Kit won the first round of the AASA 2007 Championship for JDM cars at QIR.

etc

cheers

What i meant was as a starting point, the 5/4 would be fine for ages, he would have to spend heaps of hours on the track to warrant an upgrade, and when he is ready for an upgrade he doesn't have to spend a sh#t load of cash.

The bilsteins you use for your group buys are the 'bottom of the barrel' range, which you then revalve which is fine for some. There are plenty of quick guys here in vic that use jap coilovers, and im sure your r32 has had 'extra special' attention to the suspension setup

[PSI_GTSII]

Thanks for the opinions guys, in the end I went with these:

HKS HipermaxII...Good value..good quality...Good ontrack performance, not so good on Road suits me fine as my car only travels 3000kms or less per year

Also grabbed a few other bits and pieces, all for $2900 delivered which seems pretty good value....just hope the Mrs don't find out

HKS Kansai type 3 Tower bar...looks tough..

Apexi intake system....hate my current dirty Green Mushroom Air filters..

Trust Greddy Catch Can....Motors getting old..

Trust Greddy oil filter relocator....Getting to GTR oil filter sucks Arse

Nismo oil cap....well...Wank

Edited April 19, 2007 by PSI_GTSII

[JAGR33]

So far my R32GTST has never been bettered by another Skyline (of any model) at an SAU event.

cheers

Care to share what sort of times your car does at the tracks in NSW???

[tjandriesen]

Only available for R33GTR and R34GTR, no other models.

cheers

Understanding that you have built the group buys for both performance (street & track) and value, and for those of us with R33/R34s, would looking at pairing one of these with the balance of the GB as a more expensive, more track aggressive option make sense (& buying Aussie so you get Aussie spring rates).

LOL..pains me to say this. But, make that NSW SAU. We are weak

The quick SAU guys are in Vic. The VIC GTRs have a great recipe for going quick and are quicker then improved production cars (Yes i know they dont comply with any regs so on merit should be quicker without restrictors etc) But the fact is quick is quick. Giant in QLD punches with the Vic boys.

Roy, What makes the Vic guys quicker that we can't work out / replicate here?

[JAGR33]

Roy, What makes the Vic guys quicker that we can't work out / replicate here?

Well the only car from SAU we hear about going really fast in NSW is the zed from UAS, there are hardly any GTR's that are as fast as him except for a guy GTRJason on the forums. Look at the SAU Circuit Times thread and you'll find no cars that are on par with the above mentioned cars. If there are any faster GTR's, they obviously are not linked to to SAU...

In Nov last year quite a few Vic guys went up to EC for some fun, the fastest Vic car did a 1:45, compare that to what most GTR's do there, and don't forget it was his first time aswell....

[hrd-hr30]

the Aus spec Teins seem pretty good. 11th outright in Targa Tasmanina last year from a rookie in a R34GTR that was only just completed in time for the event. No lack of serious competition there. Fulcrum Suspension, the Aus distributor will be able to advise on spring rates for anyone with more track oriented vehicles. The guy who did their development on the Aus spec Teins is a very good shock man and has worked wonders on some of the fastest open wheel hillclimbers (Formula Libre) in the country.

I'm sure the Bilstein group buy stuff is good too, but it looks more street oriented. Lets face it, 99% of the time you're on the street anyway.

My Buddy Club coilovered R32 GTR won its class and got 3rd outright on the Mountain Straight Hillclimb in 2005's Bathurst Speed Weekend, and won its class in the 2 rounds of the 2006 Tighe Cams Mt Cotton Hillclimb Series I contested. Doesn't mean it had a good suspension setup - it didn't! And I wouldn't recommend them to anyone - crazy bump rates on these shocks!

Edited April 20, 2007 by hrd-hr30

[Roy]

Roy, What makes the Vic guys quicker that we can't work out / replicate here?

Honestly? A workshop called Racepace. And then the fact that the SAU-Vic guys are pretty active in their club level motorsport, so all the drivers are getting lots of experience.

Maybe things have changed but back in Sydney there was only a handful of SAU guys having a regular play, Duncan, Majanal (now into his drifting), Fatz, Paul, Silver-Arrows and i use to see Neil around as well. But even if they were out there 8-10 times per year they were not driving cars near as modified as the Vic guys.

So combination of drivers getting good track experience with good cars under them. Given a few more runs at EC i dont doubt they will be knocking on the door of 1:42s.

I think on the whole you will be happy with the HKS. They would have been my pic out of the brands/models you were looking at

[Roy]

The bilsteins you use for your group buys are the 'bottom of the barrel' range, which you then revalve which is fine for some. There are plenty of quick guys here in vic that use jap coilovers, and im sure your r32 has had 'extra special' attention to the suspension setup

I agree there are plenty of guys out there doing good things with Jap shocks.

But calling the Bilsteins internals bottom of the barrel? The Bilstein shock itself is very good quality and offers good flexibility. There is nothing wrong with the shock itself. It’s just when ppl like me try to use off the shelf components for something they are not intended for. That said, speak to any person that has been involved with Nascar, Tourings Cars, Targa Cars, Porsches in their various categories....many have used and continue to use Bilsteins (Konis are another popular option). The Jap stuff is often cheaper so if it was really as good dont you think people would be running to use them? Hell even Japanese manufacturers turn to Bilsteins for the MR EVOs, STIs, R34 Nur etc. Sachs i think were used on the Z-Tune. So not wanting to start which is better, as i have no idea, but there are diffrences and i think its important to remember that the base Bilsten is a very good and flexible beast.

The internals of what you get in the group buy are not that far detached from their premium Bilstein brothers. They are a lot closer then what an entry level Tein is compared to something like a Tein RS; which are worlds apart. So dont blame the shock if the owner doesnt have the right one for his application. But this isnt the point of the thread. The original post was regarding a choice of Japanese shocks, and in my eyes he has made a good decision.

[alexk]

I agree there are plenty of guys out there doing good things with Jap shocks.

But calling the Bilsteins internals bottom of the barrel? The Bilstein shock itself is very good quality and offers good flexibility. There is nothing wrong with the shock itself. It’s just when ppl like me try to use off the shelf components for something they are not intended for. That said, speak to any person that has been involved with Nascar, Tourings Cars, Targa Cars, Porsches in their various categories....many have used and continue to use Bilsteins (Konis are another popular option). The Jap stuff is often cheaper so if it was really as good dont you think people would be running to use them? Hell even Japanese manufacturers turn to Bilsteins for the MR EVOs, STIs, R34 Nur etc. Sachs i think were used on the Z-Tune. So not wanting to start which is better, as i have no idea, but there are diffrences and i think its important to remember that the base Bilsten is a very good and flexible beast.

The internals of what you get in the group buy are not that far detached from their premium Bilstein brothers. They are a lot closer then what an entry level Tein is compared to something like a Tein RS; which are worlds apart. So dont blame the shock if the owner doesnt have the right one for his application. But this isnt the point of the thread. The original post was regarding a choice of Japanese shocks, and in my eyes he has made a good decision.

By my comment saying 'bottom of the barrel' i meant that there are alot better bilstein products out there (obviously for a higher price). If i had the choice (endless budget) i would choose bilstein or ohlins over jap coilovers anyday, however you're getting more for your money when you buy tein vs bilstein when you only have a $2000 budget. Also my comment only refers to what PSI-GTSII was looking for in the first place.

i agree, good decision made.

[Sydneykid]

Care to share what sort of times your car does at the tracks in NSW???

The problem with comparing lap times is that our cars are built to CAMS regulations, usually Improved Production which means a 36 mm restrictor for a single turbo and 2 x 27 mm restrictors for twin turbo. Effectively that means less than 400 bhp for a GTR. Plus a limit of 8” wide wheels and no lightweight panels. So a 1.06 at Wakefield won't sound that fast when compared to an "unlimited" power output GTR (or Z32). All we can do is continue to beat the opposition on the day.

I should also mention that races typically last 20 to 30 minutes, so we set the cars up to do the fastest 12 laps (or so). That’s a lot different to setting them up for one fast lap.

For 3 years my R32GTST ran a normal Group Buy kit, nothing “special” about it. I only corner weighted it once, and that was in the last year. Since it won’t be running Improved Production any more, we will see how fast it can go with no such limitations.

cheers

[Sydneykid]

you're getting more for your money when you buy tein vs bilstein when you only have a $2000 budget.

I completely dissagree, I did this for a magazine article some time ago, the editor hated it because it showed a lot of his advertisers in a bad light. The idea was to take a $1600 coil over kit (not for a Skyline) and break its retail price content down to show what you get for $400 each. Then compare it to a Bilstein, Koni, Whiteline, Kings, combination for $400 per corner

Coil over kit retail price breakdown;

Strut top $60

Bump stop $15

Dust cover $8

Upper spring seat $20

Lower spring seat $15

Threaded sleave/case $30

Spring $80

Shock $172

Total $400

Bilstein, Koni, Whiteline, Kings;

Bump stop $15

Dust cover $8

Spring $80

Shock $297

Total $400

It's easy to see that you get a 75% superior shock value ($172 compared to $297). The cost in a shock is the type of materials used (fairly minor difference) and the valving sophistication (where the real money is spent).

cheers

[alexk]

I completely dissagree, I did this for a magazine article some time ago, the editor hated it because it showed a lot of his advertisers in a bad light. The idea was to take a $1600 coil over kit (not for a Skyline) and break its retail price content down to show what you get for $400 each. Then compare it to a Bilstein, Koni, Whiteline, Kings, combination for $400 per corner

Coil over kit retail price breakdown;

Strut top $60

Bump stop $15

Dust cover $8

Upper spring seat $20

Lower spring seat $15

Threaded sleave/case $30

Spring $80

Shock $172

Total $400

Bilstein, Koni, Whiteline, Kings;

Bump stop $15

Dust cover $8

Spring $80

Shock $297

Total $400

It's easy to see that you get a 75% superior shock value ($172 compared to $297). The cost in a shock is the type of materials used (fairly minor difference) and the valving sophistication (where the real money is spent).

cheers

i don't disagree with you SK, however you do get more flexibility with jap coilovers especially when you are doing more track work and only have a $2000 budget. Yes the bilsteins have better valving etc, but its not neccesary for his application and more importantly thats not what he wants

[Sydneykid]

i don't disagree with you SK, however you do get more flexibility with jap coilovers especially when you are doing more track work and only have a $2000 budget. Yes the bilsteins have better valving etc, but its not neccesary for his application and more importantly thats not what he wants

This going to sound rough, I just know it. But it has to be said, otherwise the myths will continue. So I apologise in advance, it isn’t my intention to preach, simply educate.

What do you mean by "more flexibility"?

Because they have some simplistic spring preload adjuster, you think that makes them more flexible? The truth is, it probably shows up how inflexible they really are ie, they need the adjuster to cover up for their unsophisticated valving.

Adjustable shocks are only worthwhile if you know what you are doing with the adjustments. Just whacking them on full hard for a track day is almost guaranteed to be the wrong answer. The question you have to ask, does the driver have enough knowledge to use the adjustment? Will he get it right?

So that leads to the heart of the discussion, “not what he wants”? What does he want?

A brand name to brag to his mates, tick.

A nice shiny shock/spring unit for the bling, tick.

Or does he want his car to handle great, ride comfortably and do fast lap times?

cheers