044 Pump Issue

[B-Man]

Perhaps - Get one of these and mount it underneath the car.

[Guilt-Toy]

will look into it.. i am still going to get this car fully engineered so will speak to the engineer about it. Maybe it can go in the boot.

[discopotato03]

Yes I'd be a bit concerned about a copper tube radiator at the front as well , if it were to rupture without warning hot manifolds and high voltage ignition systems could do the blevey thing .

Guys I have to wonder about running two pressure pumps , ie a small one (adequate) for normal running and a Gorilla one for super duty . I guess the problem then becomes dont forget to switch over at the right time ... The problem I think is a reliable system that somehow fails safe rather than unsafe from a fuel capacity point of view .

With coolers I'd be happier with something made of steel and although its a pain maybe some kind of fan forced one if its not located "out in the breeze" .

Actually just had another thought , is it possiple to have a T piece in front of the pump that can somehow bypass a controlled amount of fuel back to the tank so less volume is doing the roundies from the pump to the rail and back ? More complication and how can you reliably block this bypass when you need it all - another manifold pressure referenced FPR ?

Food for thought , cheers A .

[B-Man]

I've thought of something else - put a tripple rotor in - it will use all the fuel -

[psi]

I have already made money available to buy a fuel cooler as part of my fuel upgrade. I had been watching my mates rotory. It was in a super sudan speedway car. after about 16 laps, the car would go off tune, spit and cough and loose heaps of power. Much time was spent tring to find the problem. Due to the layout of the track, it had a fair amount of light throttle cornering. One day (after being pushed off the track) he was checking for a fuel block and noticed his alloy tank was quite warm~hot. hmmm

Added a davies craig auto cooler! no more problems. The cooler had to be steel to keep the officials happy. They also stated that the cooler was not permitted on the pressure side!!

The car had the same outcome as said above! it was fixed! then it blew a apex seal.. i guess all that lean mixture got to it..

Big pumps and low fuel useage..

[Guilt-Toy]

afr's started to play up a little again this morning but only after 2.5 hours of driving in very heavy traffic because of a few break downs and traffic... the pump was a little louder but no way near as loud as it would have been previously...

So its much better then it was.. Was also thinking that if there was a front on accident the cooler would get bashed inbetween the intercooler and the air con cooler and once the engine stopped there would not be alot of fuel leakage... im going to speak to the engineer today about it.

[Guilt-Toy]

I phoned my engineer who is doing my car and he said he has never seen this done before but he cannot see why it would be a problem...

The system is hooked up after the fuel regulator so in a accident fuel is not going to squirt everywhere because its not under high pressure and as soon as the engine stops the fuel flow stops as well.

He said he will think about it a bit more...

[Guilt-Toy]

another engineer said he would have no issues if its on the return line but would prefer that some decent fittings were used to prevent it from accidently leaking..

Sounds like it might be okay to leave it where it is for now.

[MBS206]

If you have a programmable ecu, you should be able to setup an output, so that when cruising/idling, the 044 pump is shutdown, and another smaller (maybe stock pump) is running. but the moment you go above say 3000RPM the output turns off, and the 044 pump comes on.

So set it up, the output is ON for the small pump, off for large one.

Put the 044 through a NC relay, and the small pump on the NO relay, set it up with a timeout delay (So that the NC relay stays open for say 1/2 a second whilst the small pump turns on.)

This way, if you loose power, the larger pump will become the active pump.

With this setup you WILL need a retune.

[rob82]

When running an inline external pump - we always run a bypass around the big pump along with a check vavlve and switch it on when required - either a hobbs or an output of the ECU can be used. This helps by not flowing lots of fuel to front of the car where it is heated.

[Guilt-Toy]

ive got a hobs pressure switch 9psi i could use...

When running an inline external pump - we always run a bypass around the big pump along with a check vavlve and switch it on when required - either a hobbs or an output of the ECU can be used. This helps by not flowing lots of fuel to front of the car where it is heated.

[tacker]

Troy followed your lead and mounted my fuel cooler at back near the fuel tank but for some reason cant post pics here at the minute

[STATUS]

Running a phenolic gasket between the head and the inlet manifold helps keep the rail cool, provided you do the associated coolant mods too.

www.gizzmoelectronics.com

[rob82]

Running a phenolic gasket between the head and the inlet manifold helps keep the rail cool, provided you do the associated coolant mods too.

www.gizzmoelectronics.com

Surely it would have sealing issues under higher boost. Also whats the good of a phenolic spacer to stop heat from the head when the intake manifold runs coolant through it anyway?

Edited May 9, 2007 by rob82

[tacker]

This little aluminium cooler did work but needs to be a bit larger i think.

[Craved]

might want to think about a heat shield between the cooler and the exhaust, also some ducting infront of it to force air in so it doesnt just go under as that would be the easier path

[tacker]

Yep i knew that would be mentioned but its just the angle of the pic. It about 300mm part but i think you are correct with the idea about ducting more air to it. It seems to work although can give any figures on whe temp difference there was.

[T04GTR]

sik. another thing to add to my cars list cheeres

[psi]

Yea the cooler on the speed way car was on the return after the fuel reg.

The powers at be said pritty much the same as the engineer you spoke to... low pressure, its the hottest point in the system and will not pose any restriction to the fuel flow.

Although they did want it in steel. They were concerned about its ability to be ruptured in an accident.

The car never had an issue after the cooler was added. He mounted the cooler in the boot just before the fuel tank. His thoughts were that the cooler will be in less danger in there! He used a pair of 100mm computer fans for air flow.

I will be following his lead when i put my bigger pump in, and adding the cooler.

the twin pump idea is interesting..

I am going to be running a swirl pot, and using the stanard pump as a lift pump.

I've an 070 which could be used for a primary pump.

thanks for the idea. man my boot is gonna have some plumbing in it!

[SirRacer]

Ive just dug this up from the dead as im now having the same problems with my 044. When i drove the car for short periods of time the pump was fine, however now it seems to heat up and cause me problems.

The bosch dealer in my case said the relay i used may be causing the problem. "The intermittent noises can be related to low voltage = high current = excessive heat and swelling of the pump armature which will not cause the pump to fail all together but limit its output, (causes shorts in the armature and lowers the pumps terminal rpm)

and/or

starving of fuel pump under surge conditions = wear in the gear set = terminal pump damage and will eventually stop altogether."

I fail to see how everyone running a bosch pump in their boot is going to require some sort of fuel cooler system as the pump is having issues? Anymore opinions or developments from anyone whos posted in here?

Hes pics of my setup anyway. I do think the wire is a bit thin and may be causing a voltage drop. Im also going to change the relay to something a bit meatier. Will post back when i sort out the problem.

Edited December 19, 2008 by SirRacer