Gtr Pump Questions!

[benl1981]

Ok. I have an R32 GTR pump to go into my r33 GTST. The pump is supposedly not that old but it’s hard to tell. I was given a little anti reversion valve with it.

I have a few questions.

1. Can you test the pump without fuel, listening to what it sounds like or can this damage the pump?

2. Do I need to fit the anti reversion valve so I don’t have to prime the line every time? Does the R33gtst standard pump have one inbuilt in the pump or can I just reuse the old r33gtst anti reversion valve?

3. Do you usually need any seals or can you just reuse the tank seal? Depends on condition I guess. How much are these? How often are they reusable.

4. Is the bucket test a good measure for the condition of the pump? Time how long it takes to fill a 10 litre bucket (i.e. with the return fuel) with the old pump. Then repeat with the GTR pump

5. The sock on the GTR pump is a lot smaller than the GTST pump sock that I have seen in photos. Is it ok to use the GTR sock or should I remove and put the GTST sock on.

Hopefully it all works out. The tuner likes walbro pumps but I already have the GTR pump

Edited May 1, 2007 by benl1981

[InterCooL]

1. testing fuel pump you need pressure and flow rate. best to be done at a dyno place with a fuel pressure / flow meter. worth around $1000 last time i spoke to a guy who owned one

3. i've re-used pump o-ring seals before. tho in my old car it came cracked, if i went around a corner fast, the petty would become smell-able but that was in a hatch

if yours doesnt break when you take it out, then you should be fine. if its brittle replace it. couldnt cost much, just an o ring

[benl1981]

Thanks for the answers.

Well the pressure should be set by the fuel pressure reg so if I time the amount of seconds it takes to fill the 10 litres then I should be right? This is only for a fairly basic check..to check the pump is superior to the stock gtst one.

Cheers

[benl1981]

anyone?

[rob82]

Yes this test is fine for measureing fuel flow. Just remove the return line from the rail and put it into a meausrable container and run the car for 60 seconds - that will give you Liters per min. For 200rwkw you want around 2.5l/min of fuel flow at 50psi pressure.

As for the "anti reversion" valve it will most likely not be needed. We usually only run check vavles around inline switched pumps.

Edited May 1, 2007 by rob82

[MANWHORE]

ben, I just fitted a gtr pump into my own car!

1. no, fuel lubricates the pump. you can't do it in air,water, oil anything. fuel only.

2. no need. I didn't install the valve in mine, and it is identical to how it was with the gtst pump.

3. i reused mine. It's really such a simple seal - when you take it off, you'll know what i mean. unless if it's split or something, it shouldn't leak. the seal is like $15 or something anyways.

4. nope, flow rate is related to pressure. at no pressure, it might flow something really high. as pressure increases, it drops.

5. the attachment for the gtr sock and the gtst sock is IDENTICAL. just remove the clip, transfer the old one across. It really is a piece of piss.

In regards to the walbro pumps. I definitely wouldn't run a walbro, especially with a bigger turbo liek you have. Many of the guys here have found that the car leaned out with the walbro up around 230 rwkw (even if you might not be going for that atm, no point putting somethign in that flows a little more than the stock pump). If the walbro pump is only good enough to be run with the stock turbo, then there is no place for it even, since the stock pump happily supports anythign the stock turbo can throw at it.

also in regards to bosch pumps, pm t04gtr and he'll tell you why they're bad. I agree with his reasoning, and i have found similar issues.

if you measure your stock fuel pump wiring, at idle, your pump will only be getting 5 volts, and with any accelerator action, it'll be getting about 10.5 volts. this is a HUGE way off 13.8 volts.

I'm not allowed to release the flow data, but at 13.8 volts, the stock gtst pump flows a huge amount more than what people thought it does.

Also, the gtr pump flows HEAPS more than what people think it does too, but i'm not allowed to release my info. people are actually getting ripped off everyday when they buy 'something'.

PS: you're welcome to have a look at my car if you like. It is a perfect example of how a gtr pump should be installed. It is a smigim louder than the gtst pump (like barely). i.e. all you hear is pump noise. i.e. electrical noise. not rattling, not pump knockign on the tank because it was installed badly like that thread I showed you how the pump was just cable tied in.

Edited May 1, 2007 by MANWHORE

[benl1981]

Hi Chris,

Nice one..how's the turbo going?

If you pull the return line I believe the pressure should be the same as the rail pressure, hence it is not free flowing.

I'm not going to calculate it out but use it as comparison only..

"Nissan R33 Skyline GT-R stock. This factory Nismo fuel pump was tested to flow 252 lph at 43 psi and 13.5 volts."

[MANWHORE]

I don't like the turbo. I want to get a hks gtrs.

When I found out the 'fact' that i was told, i realised how good the gtr pumps are, so I bought another one, and put it in. lol.

[SilverECR33]

Hey guys,

Im actually planning on doing this upgrade soon. on my R33 gtst. I have a R34 GTR pump to go in. 1 question./

Why change the sock? it is slightly different in size. but you would think the GTR sock be of better quality?

[sxc33]

I just did this myself sunday, its soo easy you cant get it wrong.

I reused the filter sock from the GTST as it was a fair bit bigger than the filter sock that it came with (my 33 gtr pump was a 2nd hand one though), i just ripped it off the old pump and shoved it on the gtr unit.

As for the noise, there is a little bit, but as someone said before, its only the pump itself, not something banging or rattling.

And the sound it makes when the pump primes up (key turned to on, not cranked over) is bloody cool. Very rice boy like, but still cool.

[MANWHORE]

In regards to the pump sock. that's actually a good question.

Well, the reason for me, is because my new pump didn't come with a sock. They usually come pump only. also, because my car's done so little kays, everything on it including the sock is almost brand new.

In the past, i've used either gtr sock or the gtst sock. Any sock is fine. all it does it sediment from getting into the pump. bigger, smaller, it isn't really a big deal. gtr ones aren't 'better quality', they're the same crap.

Edited May 2, 2007 by MANWHORE

[benl1981]

Chris,

Bad new about your turbo

When you installed your GTR pump did you use the rubber type material you were talking about around it in between the pump and the hose clamp?

If so where did you get it and how much did you use and how much was it?

thanks

[SilverECR33]

Thanks Manwhore ( dont feel right thanking that name).lol

Well then Id probably want to use the GTR one off a new R34, should be a damn sight cleaner than my 180k+ gtst one

thanks for the input

[MANWHORE]

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha, silver, you'll be right mate.

Honestly, these gtr pumps are the best pumps. I went to justjap, and asked them about the walbro and bosch 040 pumps (i then asked them about the gtr pump). the gtr pump was more expensive than them both. I asked why, coz it was second hand. He said the pump is better

This was before I did research on pumps. he was actaully right.

Edited May 2, 2007 by MANWHORE

[MANWHORE]

No nitrile rubber sheet (solvent resistant). I'm very careful and picky with my own car, so I make sure everything is perfect, and i don't skimp on things. But I also don't pay for unnecessary things, coz i'm not made of money.

the install is perfect. no buzzing, fuzzy, wuzzing, knocking. All that I can hear that's different, is the pump is a little louder(perfectly normal for a big pump). That's exactly how it sounds in a gtr anyways. Tomei and nismo pumps sound like this too. it sounds really cool.

the gtr doens't use rubber (you saw the gtr cradle), and neither does the gtst (have a look at birnie's thread for the tomei pump swap).

what I did do, is you know the gtst rubber that sits under the pump. I trimmed that one to fit (you won't need to, you've got the gtr rubber (grrr, it'll be neater than my install). you'll need that.

I used 2 hose clamps. Most people usually use 1, but i used 2 just to make sure it didn't make noise, or come lose. They were $3 each, so $3 is no biggy, i'll just eat 1 less cheese burger.

I clamped it tight, such that the clamps bent a little bit (doens' tmatter, i'm not taking them off and reusing them).

other things I can say - the wiring - undo those little nuts - put a 7mm spanner on the nut, and use a screw driver on the other side. The gtst ones transfer over like it was made for it. the little rubber sleeve goes back on perfectly.

She's beautiful. I won't be home until the weekend, but you're more than welcome to listen to mine to see how much noise it makes.

Having said that though, if you must use rubber, I forgot the name of the place (my home pc died, so I lost all my documents and pictures). In the past, if i've used rubber, i just slit a piece of efi hose, open it up, and use that. works a charm. but honestly, I wouldn't bother.

Edited May 2, 2007 by MANWHORE

[benl1981]

So you didn't use the nitrile rubber sheet on yours then?

Thanks mate.

Hopefully I can do this on the weekend and get 1 step closer to a tune

[MANWHORE]

No, I din't use anything. just 2 hose clamps.

Give it a whirl mate.

Edited May 3, 2007 by MANWHORE

[SilverECR33]

OK , looks like the GTr pump is different, The wiring going ot the pumps is different . The GTr pump has 3 wires going to pump, The GTST one has 2, Positive and Negitive, Where as the GTR one has 2 x Neg and 1 x positive.

Is this some sort of Control wire?. The second Negitive that goes to the GTR pump, Earths to the side of hte pump, And it has a different plug. This second negitive that earths .

Now I am not sure what this wire does really and if the pump will work without using this 3rd negative that was hooked up in the R34 GTR.

any ideas? kinda stuck with the pumps out :S

ps. Also the GTR pump doesnt look like it sits in the Fuel like the GTST one does. its got a Long hose to sock (about 30-40 CM long).

Edited May 5, 2007 by silverbulletR33

[MANWHORE]

In the 32 gtr, the pump sits on the bottom of the tank, so it is definitely fine for it to be submerged in fuel. In the 34s, it is also submerged in fuel. The difference with the 34 is just that it sits up near the top, so that it needs a longer pickup.

You are correct in saying that the pickup on the gtr pump is different in the sense that it has a long hose wiht the filter on the bottom. It is no biggy. You can either use that, so that it sits lower in the tank. or swap it with your pickup.

The 32gtr pickup is very similar to the r33 gtst pickup. gtr pumps are all the same. That is evidence to show that either style is fine.

The strap on the side of the pump is a ground. I don't bother using those.

It's easy mate

Edited May 5, 2007 by MANWHORE

[SilverECR33]

**yea i just cut the hose down to about just under 2 inches long, and used the R34 sock.

In regards to the Extra negative wire - With the R34 Pumps they have a control wire, that makes the pump harder or softer. I just used the original wiring off of the GTR PUMP which splices into the negitive. And hooked it up just like the GTST one with the main 2 wires, with the 3rd wire running off the main negativel, It just wont be able to be controlled like in the R34. I was advised it will just function at its max compacity all the time, similar to the GTST one.

There was a bit of customization I had to do with the PUmp as it is Quite FaT and wouldnt go all the way down. With the R34 it has 2 plastic Mounting brackets which are apart of the pump casing. These have to be cut off, for it to be able to slide into the tank properly. as it will reach a point and not go far enough for the Mounting ARm to slot into the top of the fuel tank.

Up and running now, sounds sweet. works well _ couldnt be happier.

oh yea ps. I couldnt use a hose clamp to clamp the pump, had to remove the clamps to get the thing sliding all the way down. I tried to reposition the clamps but it just wouldnt slide down. so i removed it then it just slide down.

- Cheers.

Edited May 5, 2007 by silverbulletR33