Stagea Fuel Economy

[STAG250]

Does anyone know about the economy of the M35 Stag???

is the 3.5 350Z engine better than the 2.5t 25vqdet ????

Cheers

620 km's on 67 litres my first roady on new turbo in vq25det. Leadfooted and all so not bad.

[pixel8r]

620 km's on 67 litres my first roady on new turbo in vq25det. Leadfooted and all so not bad.

The turbo shouldn't really make a difference to fuel economy on long trips should it? Unless you do a lot of overtaking etc.?

Can anyone confirm what the boost level is when just cruising at 110km/h (around 2700-2800rpm i think from memory)?? I'd like to think its not on boost at all or at least very minimal...

As I see it, fuel economy would be determined by engine efficiency and gear/diff ratios...

The stagea 4.3 diff is what makes the fuel economy so bad I think. But it does help it to get up and go so I wouldn't recommend replacing it

[STAG250]

110 more like 2000-2500 rpm minimal boost. I think standard ceramic turbo is good only for 8 lbs of boost on high octane but my reconditioned one is good for 13.

I went up over a range of mountains on this trip and was maintaining 80-100 at the time

[pixel8r]

110 more like 2000-2500 rpm minimal boost. I think standard ceramic turbo is good only for 8 lbs of boost on high octane but my reconditioned one is good for 13.

I went up over a range of mountains on this trip and was maintaining 80-100 at the time

Must be a huge difference in gear or diff ratios between s1/s2 and m35 then...

[andy65b]

620 km's on 67 litres my first roady on new turbo in vq25det. Leadfooted and all so not bad.

Sounds like you are on the right track. My ARX can get up to 10km/Litre but sits usually at 8.8 on country trips and 7-7.5 in the Sydney.

[stasis]

have you guys swapped the air filter from paper ones into a drop in replacment K&n? It should improve the fule economy up to 14.7%. tested it on my dad's bimmer and thats what the trip comp says.

[andy65b]

have you guys swapped the air filter from paper ones into a drop in replacment K&n? It should improve the fule economy up to 14.7%. tested it on my dad's bimmer and thats what the trip comp says.

Not tried the filter. Definatley worth a try. Let you know how I go.

[pixel8r]

K&N filters are not as good as the normal paper filters. Sure they let more air through, but they filter less, allowing more particles to get through than with paper/dry filters. They also have been known to cause problems with the AFM (stalling etc) due to the fact they are oiled. This happened to my silvia turbo after fitting a K&N panel filter. no problems before using the K&N filter, and no problems after i changed it back to a cheapie bosch one...had to clean the AFM on several occasions while using the K&N filter and it seemed to make a noticeable difference each time I cleaned it...

A lot of people claim to have had no trouble with them however so make up your own mind.

Still, the fact remains that they dont filter as well as some other brands. A few tests rated an Apexi filter as offering better filtration and performance than the stock filter but I'm not sure which product it was exactly.

I use an Apexi dry-type panel filter for what its worth. I honestly couldn't say I noticed any difference in performance or fuel economy. And the same goes for the K&N filter I used in the silvia turbo. The biggest difference was the induction noise, had to check a couple times that I'd installed it correctly - thats how loud it was.

I figure the air filter is one of those mods that will likely give an improvement, but not something you'd notice just by changing the air filter alone.

[stasis]

K&N filters are not as good as the normal paper filters. Sure they let more air through, but they filter less, allowing more particles to get through than with paper/dry filters. They also have been known to cause problems with the AFM (stalling etc) due to the fact they are oiled. This happened to my silvia turbo after fitting a K&N panel filter. no problems before using the K&N filter, and no problems after i changed it back to a cheapie bosch one...had to clean the AFM on several occasions while using the K&N filter and it seemed to make a noticeable difference each time I cleaned it...

A lot of people claim to have had no trouble with them however so make up your own mind.

Still, the fact remains that they dont filter as well as some other brands. A few tests rated an Apexi filter as offering better filtration and performance than the stock filter but I'm not sure which product it was exactly.

I use an Apexi dry-type panel filter for what its worth. I honestly couldn't say I noticed any difference in performance or fuel economy. And the same goes for the K&N filter I used in the silvia turbo. The biggest difference was the induction noise, had to check a couple times that I'd installed it correctly - thats how loud it was.

I figure the air filter is one of those mods that will likely give an improvement, but not something you'd notice just by changing the air filter alone.

I have used K&filters for over 15 years now. In petrol engine or diesel engine, NAs, turbo and even a rotary (rx8). Never had a problem even ONCE!!. So yea problems with the oils is over oiling and thats not the filters fault i guess. I wash and clean my filters myself and oil it myself and never had a problems of any sort.

The product is a good product and i swear by it. If its not good why would i use it for over 15years?! About the filtration capabilities u have no doubt about its ability to filter out dust ETC. Probably you are refering to those foam type. I have an on field cruiser which i use in a dusty condition. And it works just fine and now its on 200,000km on the speedo clock.

Fuel economy you can tell the difference from the on board computer in this case in my dad's Bmw 740il. Before and after the installation of the drop in replacment filter the computer was reading 14.7% lower in fuel consumption. So....

As for performance wise on the K&n on the rotary engine. It only gained abour 2hp.

Well its up to you guys to decide but im just sold on the k&n cos i have tried it, proven it myself.

[pixel8r]

I have used K&filters for over 15 years now. In petrol engine or diesel engine, NAs, turbo and even a rotary (rx8). Never had a problem even ONCE!!. So yea problems with the oils is over oiling and thats not the filters fault i guess. I wash and clean my filters myself and oil it myself and never had a problems of any sort.

The product is a good product and i swear by it. If its not good why would i use it for over 15years?! About the filtration capabilities u have no doubt about its ability to filter out dust ETC. Probably you are refering to those foam type. I have an on field cruiser which i use in a dusty condition. And it works just fine and now its on 200,000km on the speedo clock.

Fuel economy you can tell the difference from the on board computer in this case in my dad's Bmw 740il. Before and after the installation of the drop in replacment filter the computer was reading 14.7% lower in fuel consumption. So....

As for performance wise on the K&n on the rotary engine. It only gained abour 2hp.

Well its up to you guys to decide but im just sold on the k&n cos i have tried it, proven it myself.

They will definitely flow more air than a paper filter, I wasn't doubting that at all. And this will also lead to better fuel economy due to less intake restriction. However I was just cautioning people to read up on them first because like I said people have had problems with the oil stuffing up the AFM - possibly due to over-oiling (i never oiled mine myself so could have been over-oiled by a workshop). Also pretty much as a general rule, the greater the airflow, the less filtration. The level of filtration may still be enough to protect your engine, as you have experienced...but thats a choice each individual needs to make.

[stasis]

They will definitely flow more air than a paper filter, I wasn't doubting that at all. And this will also lead to better fuel economy due to less intake restriction. However I was just cautioning people to read up on them first because like I said people have had problems with the oil stuffing up the AFM - possibly due to over-oiling (i never oiled mine myself so could have been over-oiled by a workshop). Also pretty much as a general rule, the greater the airflow, the less filtration. The level of filtration may still be enough to protect your engine, as you have experienced...but thats a choice each individual needs to make.

Actually the key not to over oil is very simple. The instruction on the cleaner will tell you. Spray the oil on the pleat and let it stand for aout 30min and resrpay the white spots (if theres a miss somewhere). The theory ' a little bit more wont hurt" doesnt apply in this case. So yea once the element looks a little pinkish red and you will be fine. But respray those "white spots" which is the area that was missed and respray lightly. In case you over sprayed i find that kicthen paper towel will do the tricj in absorbing the excessive oil to a certain extend.

But yea like pixel says make your own choices and be a bit carefull when reoiling thats all.

[andy65b]

I have used K&filters for over 15 years now. In petrol engine or diesel engine, NAs, turbo and even a rotary (rx8). Never had a problem even ONCE!!. So yea problems with the oils is over oiling and thats not the filters fault i guess. I wash and clean my filters myself and oil it myself and never had a problems of any sort.

The product is a good product and i swear by it. If its not good why would i use it for over 15years?! About the filtration capabilities u have no doubt about its ability to filter out dust ETC. Probably you are refering to those foam type. I have an on field cruiser which i use in a dusty condition. And it works just fine and now its on 200,000km on the speedo clock.

Fuel economy you can tell the difference from the on board computer in this case in my dad's Bmw 740il. Before and after the installation of the drop in replacment filter the computer was reading 14.7% lower in fuel consumption. So....

As for performance wise on the K&n on the rotary engine. It only gained abour 2hp.

Well its up to you guys to decide but im just sold on the k&n cos i have tried it, proven it myself.

I bought the K&N filter today so I will see how it goes.

On the M35 airbox there is a slot at the leading edge of the bonnet for cold air but on the front edge of the airbox there is another pannel that can remved opening up the front of the airbox. I have noticed on the V35 that this section is also open and sealed to only let cold air in. Would removing this section help improve the airflow and potential power?

[stasis]

is it a seconday air intake when at high rpms to suck in more air into the airbox? You can try and see wheter theres a difference or not.

After changing to the k&n filter you will notice in the engine responsive ness. And try this. When at neutral, give the gas a really quick rev upyou should be able to hear the engine sucking!! hehe!!

[RS4StagMan]

hmm where should i start on this topc? Well here goes. 3 main fuel categories are gasoline, diesel and LPG. Each type of fuel has it own pro and cons.

Gasoline engine is the mainstream for all car manufacturer since god knows when. Now over the years people have been raising concern over the gas mileage on these cars. Hence all continental cars when down the drain as they as in general suck more fuel compared to the japanese. In terms of power, torque, gasoline engine topped the chart since the muscle car era. until now.

Diesel engine the new type "common rail" has able to match or even some cases surpass the performance of the gasoline engine. Proven by the european car manufacturer such as bmws, mercs, audi ,ford, GM, renault, peugot and citroen. And for the first time the diesel engine has finally matched the emmision and perform far better emission than the gasoline engine counter parts. Its the new GM "duramax" engine which will be available at the end of the year fitted onto the Hummer H3 range.

Now for LPG. Lpg hmm. I think only australia has utilize it in such a big scale. Although other countires have limitted application on it such as taxis and public transport. Lpg engine tend to run cleaner and its good or if not better for the environment. Its cheap to run like what most people said. And thats true to a certain extend. Cost of converting 3k worth? Now in order to make your money back on the lpg conversion, how many liters of LPG do you need to buy in order to make the savings worth while? Say for an example round figures A$15k @A$1.50/ltr. Thats about 10,000ltr. Now say for Lpg@ A$0.75/ltr for 10,000ltr and that equates to A$7.5k. DOnt forget though theres a difference in fuel comsumption between a gasoline and LPG. Lpg tend to chew through faster at about 30%. Therefore 1ltr of gasoline= 1.3ltr of lpg. SO wheres the savings? And the fact is the govt ( ex horward) was going to raise the cost of LPG by A$0.10/year for the next 10 years. So i think we are goin to get suckered by the government to get us to convert our cars into LPGs!!

As fir diesel its out of our league cos we have to get a new diesel car in order to match the performance of the old gasoline cars like the stagea. The diesel cars still have not catch the trend into high perdormance yet. Although the Audis have made an impact on the LE MANS races. We will need a bunch of crazy japanese engineers to make a high performance diesel car!! . then it will be really cool. Just imagine of the high torque that you can get from the car. A mercs 270CDI can generate 400nm of torque and have a low fuel consumption.

Im not having a go at LPG. I was actually thinking of geting another SUV and convert it into LPG but the thought of getting suckered into it by the govt puts me off. Even though the Lpg are a cleaner fuel to burn but i will still have to think about it first.

Although we can use the United boost 98 now. Thats what im using on my 260rs at the moment.

just my 2c worth of BSing.

*Stasis* agree with most of your comments with regards to alternative fuel sources however LPG has always sufferered a stigma mainly due to the general public's misconceptions in our part of the world, not widely accepting the fuel as an alternative for mainstream and performance applications.

I did a lot of research into the LPG conversion before it was carried out and even before I imported the car, including the following;

1. Dual fuel vs dedicated LPG

2. Sequential gas injection (SGI)- both vapour and liquid vs. Gas Research Throttle Body (+ mechanical injection for turbo apllication)

3. Tank in boost vs keeping the cargo space free

4. Performance and economy compared with Petrol

5. Drivability/Cold Start/Tuneability/Maintenance/LPG Availability

6. Payback calculation

7. Accredited/Experienced Workshop in turbo LPG Conversions

etc, etc

For my particular situation, the payback after the $2000 Federal Government grant (WA gets an additional $1000 state grant) is 9 months, based on;

Monthly Savings $189

Payback Period 9 months

Annual Savings $2268

Weekly Savings $44

Based on: Annual Km:25000

Petrol Consumption 15L/100km

Cost of petrol/Litre:$1.45

Cost of LPG/Litre:$0.65

Conversion Cost $1750

These potential savings are indicative only

based on a range of fuel consumption.

Calculations include the benefits of Federal (and State) Government grants (rebate).

Using this calculator here

http://www.lpgautogas.com.au/index.cfm?action=MyCar

LPG, under current legislation, will be excise free until 2011, where the excise is due to increase at 2.5 cents per litre until it reaches a ceiling of 12.5 cents per litre in 2015. By comparison, the current excise on petrol in 38.1 cents per litre.

http://www.lpgautogas.com.au/index.cfm?Action=Faq#12

I think in my case I'm happy to pocket $6808 ($2268 p/a*3 years), even before the excise starts to come in. That's a bit of extra cash to fund modifications/insurance/reg/tyres/maintenance etc or put into investments or fund lifestyle etc.

I wonder what the price of petrol vs LPG will be in 2011, 2015, 2020 or later years given the huge demand on energy by growing nations like India and China?

Sorry now back to the topic, my car currently does go through about 20% more LPG than petrol (Not dyno tuned yet however), so the efficiency of the process has been reduced, but my fuel running costs p/a have decreased by about 50%.

I would strongly advise anybody considering going to LPG to research the possibility thoroughly. Contrary to pupular belief, it definately can be done on a turbo car with some great results.

BTW: I wouldn't consider it on your lovely (rare) Autech 260 RS, but a big heavy SUV- maybe? To a Stagea- Done!

[stasis]

*Stasis* agree with most of your comments with regards to alternative fuel sources however LPG has always sufferered a stigma mainly due to the general public's m

BTW: I wouldn't consider it on your lovely (rare) Autech 260 RS, but a big heavy SUV- maybe? To a Stagea- Done!

isconceptions in our part of the world, not widely accepting the fuel as an alternative for mainstream and performance applications.

I did a lot of research into the LPG conversion before it was carried out and even before I imported the car, including the following;

1. Dual fuel vs dedicated LPG

2. Sequential gas injection (SGI)- both vapour and liquid vs. Gas Research Throttle Body (+ mechanical injection for turbo apllication)

3. Tank in boost vs keeping the cargo space free

4. Performance and economy compared with Petrol

5. Drivability/Cold Start/Tuneability/Maintenance/LPG Availability

6. Payback calculation

7. Accredited/Experienced Workshop in turbo LPG Conversions

etc, etc

For my particular situation, the payback after the $2000 Federal Government grant (WA gets an additional $1000 state grant) is 9 months, based on;

Monthly Savings $189

Payback Period 9 months

Annual Savings $2268

Weekly Savings $44

Based on: Annual Km:25000

Petrol Consumption 15L/100km

Cost of petrol/Litre:$1.45

Cost of LPG/Litre:$0.65

Conversion Cost $1750

These potential savings are indicative only

based on a range of fuel consumption.

Calculations include the benefits of Federal (and State) Government grants (rebate).

Using this calculator here

http://www.lpgautogas.com.au/index.cfm?action=MyCar

LPG, under current legislation, will be excise free until 2011, where the excise is due to increase at 2.5 cents per litre until it reaches a ceiling of 12.5 cents per litre in 2015. By comparison, the current excise on petrol in 38.1 cents per litre.

http://www.lpgautogas.com.au/index.cfm?Action=Faq#12

I think in my case I'm happy to pocket $6808 ($2268 p/a*3 years), even before the excise starts to come in. That's a bit of extra cash to fund modifications/insurance/reg/tyres/maintenance etc or put into investments or fund lifestyle etc.

I wonder what the price of petrol vs LPG will be in 2011, 2015, 2020 or later years given the huge demand on energy by growing nations like India and China?

Sorry now back to the topic, my car currently does go through about 20% more LPG than petrol (Not dyno tuned yet however), so the efficiency of the process has been reduced, but my fuel running costs p/a have decreased by about 50%.

I would strongly advise anybody considering going to LPG to research the possibility thoroughly. Contrary to pupular belief, it definately can be done on a turbo car with some great results.

[quote

Yea i was actually thinking of converting to LPG just for the heacj of it at first but nah. Well i guess everybody got its own version of calculator i guess. But the thought of running LPG has always tempted me cos of the so called "evironment frienly" fuel. It still emitts Co2 but at a much lower level.

But yea really having a hard on on the diesel engines at the moment. Just have to wait for a bunch of freaky and crazy engineers to design a ture sport cars with it. One of them will be the BMW motor sports!! just imagine the torque which will plant your ass down to the seat

I think in 10-20years when we are going out for a drive we will have to think long and hard! Why? I think by that time a liter of fuel might cost something like A$5/ltr!! But again by that time i think some smart ass around the world would have invented something else to replace the so called "the internal combustion" engines!! LOL!! Actually a few years ago i saw on the dixcovery science channel that they are in trails for the electric car using magnet!! Yea just like the MAGLEV in germany. Where they pass through an electrical charge into the magnets on the wheels and it will go forward!! Just imagine that.

[STAG250]

been big rises in LPG costs here in NZ from $1 a litre to $1.29

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/topic/story.cfm?...jectid=10485089

[STAG250]

stasis

true sports cars already cpme in diesel re Audi at Le Mans

Jaguar has put out a diesel and there is a fast 535 d beemer

[_Ryan_]

GQ patrol's used RB30's and TD42's, GU TD42's have aftermarket support and will pull a bunker out of the ground... catch my drift? Or for under 8L/100, the 3L(ZD30?) could work, but would need a bit more work for the same performance.

[chuckie]

WELL LAD`S YOU WILL NOT LIKE THE COST OF PROFIRE SYSTEM I THINK IT`S ABOUT $7000 TO $8000.SO WHO EVER SAID THAT IT WOULD COST $1750 ,HAVEN SPOKE TO CHRIS HOW HAS R34 NEO IS VERY HAPPY WITH HIS SET UP 350 KM`S FOR 50LT`S OF LP SO THAT`S GOOD AS GOOD A PULP,SO IT SHOULD BE WORTH THE COST + HIS TIME`S AT THE DRAG`S WE`ER GOOD ,WILL HAVE TO GET CHRIS TO PUT SOME POST`S UP WITH SOME PIC`S ,WELL HOPE THIS HAS HELPED SOME ONE OUT .cheer`s chuckie.

[stasis]

stasis

true sports cars already cpme in diesel re Audi at Le Mans

Jaguar has put out a diesel and there is a fast 535 d beemer

Stag i know that. What i mean is AMGs and M motorsports. They still havent tweak the curent diesel yet. Although AMG did some on the C 270CDI in a very limitied numbers.

The most impressive diesel powerplant goin to be on sale in Oz if it ever come is the BMW new 320 TDI twin turbo. A 2 liter engine able to pump out 200hp!! .