Stagea Fuel Economy

[Ozzyla]

this

my car feels just as quick on 7psi than on 10, should prob put it back and see what the economy gets like

living in tasmania definitely throws the economy out the window, barely a straight road about

not that i'm complaining

Knock sensor maybe hearing a rattle on 10psi and taking out some timing.

Oz

[CL11QE]

so my fuel light came on during my drive home tonight, i was just around the corner from my house, its just rolled over 500,

and ive probably given the car a little bit more this time...

[pipster11]

Knock sensor maybe hearing a rattle on 10psi and taking out some timing.

Oz

its been running 10psi for ages and i've only run 7 once for about 2 mins so i haven't really tried it all that much

i've got a spare switch hanging around so i might wire it up to have a selectable ground

i should really pull my finger out and the the jaycar iebc installed but i really cbf

[Ozzyla]

its been running 10psi for ages and i've only run 7 once for about 2 mins so i haven't really tried it all that much

i've got a spare switch hanging around so i might wire it up to have a selectable ground

i should really pull my finger out and the the jaycar iebc installed but i really cbf

Please M8 be careful with using stuff from Jaycar, its all made in China and is mostly crap.

Oz

[Ozzyla]

The stagea you have is based off the R34 engine and turbo. Technically this means it should be more efficient, but obviously not in your case. The exhaust without any tuning will not help your fuel economy. You'll get more power (and the exhaust means you're running more boost - probably around 11psi) but it'll just run really rich on the factory tune. Get some kind of piggyback ecu in there and a proper tune and you'll see a huge increase in both power and fuel economy. In my case it went from ~13L/100km to 11.5L/100km just driving to work and back. Admittedly it didn't help the hwy economy much but I was getting 10.5L/100km consistently which should get around 600km to a tank (roughly 60L at the empty line - tank itself is 68L)

There are a lot of people on here getting >400 (some > 450) kms to a tank in the city. I suggest you do take it to a dyno and get the AFR's checked out...and check for any error codes from your ecu - might have a faulty sensor somewhere. Other things to try is clean the AFM - remove it from the car, run some contact cleaner or metho over the metal wires that hang down inside the pipe (but dont touch them with your fingers), let it dry, then put it back in.

to anyone else out there not used to the way Nissan ecu's respond on turbo cars - if you get a free-flowing exhaust, you MUST get some sort of aftermarket tuning - like a piggyback ecu (eg. apexi safc or greddy emanage).

So many people think an exhaust will make their car run leaner. not true (well, not for these cars anyway). The exhaust affects boost pressure in that your boost limit increases - and obviously the amount of airflow increases too. The ecu reads the amount of air using the AFM and then adds the appropriate amount of fuel - according to its pre-programmed fuel maps. Due to the amount of airflow you're actually getting with a 3" exhaust, this causes the potential to run dangerously lean so the ecu will compensate by adding ridiculous amounts of fuel, and its not uncommon to see AFR's below 10:1 just from adding a 3" exhaust. somewhere around 9.5:1 the ecu will panic and go into R&R (rich and retard) mode to protect your engine. It feels like a sudden loss in power and you'll get it when under hard acceleration. In extreme cases, it will cut fuel and it'll almost send you through the windscreen.

Short answer: If you get an exhaust, or even if you just add more boost, get it tuned. You'll never get the best from the exhaust if you dont...and it'll cost you crazy amounts in fuel.

I agree, the Neo2 was sposed to be better, i just havent seen it yet

Also on the exhaust, I only noted that for accuracy, I do not agree with your comments there, by just fitting a more free flowing exhaust the ECU should not need remapping.

It will also have a negligable affect on fuel acconomy. It may end up giving you a little more in the way of boost (maybe) but the ECU will easly cope with that.

As im only talking about fuel eco, im only talking about light load conditions.

Cleaning the AFM I have done in the past to fix some probs, but ill give it a run on the dyno first to see whats going on first i think.

Im not 100% sure on the Stagea, it may have a AFM clean/Burn mode built into the ECU..

I have checked O2 Sensor and ECU codes. All fine.

Like I said, im going to run it up in the next few weeks i hope is i get time, Ill document AFR,load etc and timing. And we will see whats going on... Maybe there just a brick! lol

Thankyou for your comments

Oz

PS. just wondering, you in the Trade?

[pixel8r]

I agree, the Neo2 was sposed to be better, i just havent seen it yet

I owned a neo (1999 stagea) for 2 years and averaged about 13L-14/100km when it was completely stock.

Also on the exhaust, I only noted that for accuracy, I do not agree with your comments there, by just fitting a more free flowing exhaust the ECU should not need remapping.

I think you misunderstood my point - its not that it NEEDS remapping in order to run. But if you get it remapped, the benefit is huge, enough that I no longer see the point in upgrading the exhaust and not tuning the ecu. You're just not seeing the full benefit until you remap the ecu or add some form of tuning.

It will also have a negligable affect on fuel acconomy. It may end up giving you a little more in the way of boost (maybe) but the ECU will easly cope with that.

Admittedly I had a high-flow (GT30 hybrid) turbo installed before I upgraded my exhaust but my results matched what most people on here said. Once the exhaust went on, boost went up to around 11psi, and my fuel economy suffered due to the extra performance potential (I can be a bit of a leadfoot sometimes). 11psi was also enough for it to run AFR's below 10:1 and hit R&R and fuel cut on occasion. This could've been due to the upgraded turbo though.

Obviously if your driving style didn't change then your fuel economy wouldn't be affected much, but my reasoning was that most people after fitting a free-flowing exhaust will adjust their driving accordingly, resulting in more fuel usage. As you increase boost, your fuel-efficiency gets worse and worse - because the ecu tends to severely over-react by adding crazy amounts of fuel.

The reason I recommended tuning is because of the result I saw after getting a SAFC installed and properly tuned. When I first had the SAFC installed it had only very mild adjustment - enough to stop it hitting R&R but not much else. Later I had it tuned by a more professional tuner and also the base timing was advanced to suit. The result was a decrease in fuel consumption from 13-14L/100km down to just 11.5-12L/100km and this was consistent from that point onwards.

As im only talking about fuel eco, im only talking about light load conditions.

fair enough.

PS. just wondering, you in the Trade?

Haha No. I'm actually a computer programmer.

I only know bits and pieces that I've picked up off the forum combined with personal experience from having owned 2 stageas over 3+ years and other nissan imports for over 5 years before that.

[JZZ20]

Full tank of United Premium-100, and to the first petrol light i got 404kms. Then drove till about 425 and refueled, didnt want to run out hehe.

And this was what I qould call 'average driving'. Was a mix of some highway, city, suburb, steady and 'spirited' driving.

If I really babied her, I could squeeze over 450 I think.

Its still stock apart from a 3" Cat back including new 3" Cat, but plan on some mods and especially a Power FC and tune

[pistol-pete]

actually i managed to get over 430kms on my last tank and that wasnt completely empty either so not too bad really. and they werent a boost-less 430kms either

[Duncan]

Please M8 be careful with using stuff from Jaycar, its all made in China and is mostly crap.

Oz

lol so is the computer you typed this on. do you have a particular concern with specific bits of their stock or do you just beleive nothing from china can work???

[pipster11]

managed to pull 480kms from this tank (light has been on for about 20kms)

that has included running through town, 4 hours on the highway with several straights and overtaking manoeuvres and 30ish mins going over some mountains = fun

i've hooked up an on/off switch to the grounded side of my solenoid and ran it into the cabin and grounded it there - basically allowed to have 5-6psi max with the switch off and ~10 with the switch set to on

not sure why mine is 5 and 10 tho (thought it was 5 and 7 stock) makes a big difference, can notice the lack on high boost on accel but as i figure the stock maps go very rich on 10psi and are much leaner on 5-6 so it may take more throttle input to get it to move on low boost but at least it will be running a bit leaner

[02stagea]

Since getting my car serviced. I have averaged about 550 per tank. Got every oil in the car changed and it is running great now. I got 650 on a run on the freeway so I think that big numbers can be had. Also I never let the fuel light come on!!

[RubyRS4]

I'm getting on average 512 kms to the tank on 98 RON. Thats with a full system, FMIC, bigger boost, HKS pod filter and a few other supporting mods.

That is all.

[stagman]

Okay, so what i think is a stock RS4 Series 2; My last two tanks are as follows:

Tank 1: 47L and i got 430.7km-10.91L per 100k. This was with about 10% spirited driving and the rest a pretty even split between highway and urban.

Tank 2: 56.2L and 519.3km-10.82L per 100k. This was with more spirited driving then last, however i also drove to Toowoomba which was about 2 hrs. and 15 minutes on highway at a average speed of 100kmph. The rest was suburban and city driving.

All done on Bp 98 ron.

[CL11QE]

yeh filled up 2nite petrol light had just come on, 530K, and topped up 56L....car due for a service too, and again its BP 98 Ultimate....which i also gotta say is alot of the time cheaper then other stations 98...

[pyro-ns]

has anyone else tried 98 from mobil? we've found that you use it about twice as quick as BP 98... we tried it when driving from Brisbane to adelaide, so same driving circumstances as all the other tanks of BP 98 we had...

[stagman]

has anyone else tried 98 from mobil? we've found that you use it about twice as quick as BP 98... we tried it when driving from Brisbane to adelaide, so same driving circumstances as all the other tanks of BP 98 we had...

Hmm i always rated Mobil. In my old car i would normally see about 50km+ more per tank with it?( in my first car, a Subaru liberty wagon)

[pipster11]

has anyone else tried 98 from mobil? we've found that you use it about twice as quick as BP 98... we tried it when driving from Brisbane to adelaide, so same driving circumstances as all the other tanks of BP 98 we had...

i used to use it, seemed good and i got average fuel consumption with it

i know its not a stag but the gf's grandparents always use it in their audi and they see 8l/100km city and getting down to almost 6 on the highway!!!! and its the turbo one too, and its a solid car - damn germans

also, if you want basic control over your boost then you car chop off just the neg (grounded) side of the stock solenoid, connect some wire to the solenoid side of what you chopped and run it into the cabin, grab an on/off switch, connect your wire to one side of the switch and earth the other

that mean that with the switch off you will run whatever you car runs before 4500, but will do it all the way to redline

flich the switch to on, you get max boost all the way to redline

there have been stories of the stock solenoid getting burnt out if grounded all the time - this is a way to have the best of both worlds

[d1_drifter]

I gotta stop opening this thread, it depresses me hahaha.

[stagman]

haha yeah i could imagine. Pipster, isn't that a bit risky? What happens if the car detects knock but you have the ground un-slected or whatever and its running 7-8-9psi? I want to do something similar once i get my nistune installed, but i was warned agiasnt it for that reason.

I also would like to say, i really hope to see under 10l per 100k after my nistune install, hi-flow panel filter and turbo back exhuast. All in good time though haha.

[pipster11]

haha yeah i could imagine. Pipster, isn't that a bit risky? What happens if the car detects knock but you have the ground un-slected or whatever and its running 7-8-9psi? I want to do something similar once i get my nistune installed, but i was warned agiasnt it for that reason.

I also would like to say, i really hope to see under 10l per 100k after my nistune install, hi-flow panel filter and turbo back exhuast. All in good time though haha.

pretty sure if it hears a knock then the ecu pulls timing and dumps fuel

i've been running it for a couple of weeks and i leave it mainly on low cos if i'm on the highway and go to overtake it will at 10psi before you know it

and how i see it 40% throttle with 10psi or 60% with 5-6psi - cos the stock maps are so rich once you get up to ~10psi its gotta use less fuel

i did a trip to the coast, 150kms each way and used about 17 litres to get there which included going through some fun twisties - only 2 ppl in the car but 1 huge ass 12 man tent, 4 surf boards, 1 body board, 1 esky, clothes, doona and other random shit and not driving lightly really

on the way back i think i got closer to 10 (something like 10.2 or 10.5)