Twin Turbo Straight Six Cylinder Engine

[ras1983]

All I can say is... Think about how much these BMWs cost, and then think back as to how much our beloved skylines cost!??!

they are in two different leagues!!

And mate, give me a RB any day of the week!!!

Ummm, a brand new GT-R would have been pushing $120k+, so i don't see how price can come into this.

the fact is that the RB26 was never REALLY improved and developed since 1989. i love GT-Rs as much as the next guy, but you can't deny that you wouldn't want that BMW engine in a car that you own.

imagine the tuning potential.

[Forged]

as u sure this gets "twin turbo" classification? i would call this a bi-turbo setup as you have two turbochargers of different sizes

one small, one big. well marketing call it twin turbo, but to me twin implies to turbo's of the same size

European manufacturers use "twin turbo" and "bi turbo" interchangeably. An Audi B5 S4 uses two turbos of the same size and they call it "Bi Turbo Motor"

[rb26s13]

the 1 and 2jz use different sizes

WRONGGGG, the 2jz turbo's i pulled off a car a while ago were identical in size

most car mags and stuff most often say that the rb26 is one of the only true twin turbo (6) engines

like oblivion said, both the 1jay and 2jay were twin sequential turbo, the 1GGTE was only a 2litre twin with a pissy 150kw at the rear wheels (from what i remember) and the rotaries (despite not being a six, but a twin) were sequential aswell

regardless of how they were setup.. they do run the same size turbo's and get the "twin turbo" catagory in my opinion

[kralster]

When i think about it, it's not that a fantastic engine. It's only putting out 75 kilowatts per litre which is pretty weak.

But the fuel economy is pretty amazing i must say.

[mokompri]

as has been mentioned the 2JZ has a sequential turbo setup, but the turbos are the same size

imo twin turbo and 'bi-turbo' are the same thing, meaning having 2 physical turbos, it has no inference to whether they are sequential or different sized turbos or what not

[jake33]

the RB26 stock intercooler size is about 3 times that of the BMWs 3 litre twin turbo judging by the pic. (quiet small... )

Edited May 15, 2007 by jake33

[ras1983]

the RB26 stock intercooler size is about 3 times that of the BMWs 30litre twin turbo judging by the pic. (quiet small... )

+1. Also, lets not forget that the BMW engine is only running 0.4bar of boost, i think around 6psi. thats just amazing.

[scathing]

When i think about it, it's not that a fantastic engine. It's only putting out 75 kilowatts per litre which is pretty weak.

But the fuel economy is pretty amazing i must say.

The engine awards aren't just about outright power. Stuff like smoothness, power delivery, response, economy, and even the note come into it.

Don't forget that the Euros tend to tune their cars conservatively. Most of the aftermarket guys can pull an extra 20% more power out of the Euro turbo engines with ECU tweaks alone (like most of the VAG turbomotors), and that's before you touch any hardware like the exhaust or intercooler etc.

There was an interview with Peter Luxon of APS in a Motor magazine ages ago, and they said they pulled another 30kW+ at the tyres out of a 996 Turbo with only a ECU retune. The OEM setup runs the car rich in the top end, to preserve the engine while its being held at high RPM on the autobahn, but since that doesn't happen in Australia you can "safely" lean it out and make more power.

And my mate just bought a new Polo GTi. 110kW off the showroom floor, but with an ECU reflash and a stronger BOV it'll make 150kW.

[sewid]

All I can say is... Think about how much these BMWs cost, and then think back as to how much our beloved skylines cost!??!

they are in two different leagues!!

And mate, give me a RB any day of the week!!!

Whaaaat?

Current BMW 335i may be waaaaaaaaay overpriced at $104,000 but thats what an R32 GTR would've cost you in 1991.

I think you've been smoking something if you think the Skyline was a cheap car new!

[andylaurel]

I dont know if you are talkin about the 1GGTE but it has 2 turbos the same size...the 1 and 2jz use different sizes but the 1GG doesnt.

Cheers.

I dont know about the 7M.

The 1JZGTE uses twin CT12A's and the turbochargers are not sequential

The 2JZGTE uses twin CT12A's or CT20's and the turbochargers are sequential. This is achieved by the use of a special valve in the exhaust manifold that directs all of the exhaust gasses through one turbocharger until about 4000rpm where the valve opens and the exhaust gasses are then directed evenly between the turbo's.

On both the JZ series of engine, the turbochargers are identically sized.

Manufacturers have struggled over the years to design a sequential twin turbo setup that uses differnt sized turbochargers. Subaru had a crack at it with their early 2 litre Legacy/Liberty B4's and failed dismally. The B4 had a massive power hole between the 1st turbo and the 2nd turbo.

[gts-4 dreamer]

AGREED!

v10 plaz

[342Four]

The 1JZGTE uses twin CT12A's and the turbochargers are not sequential

The 2JZGTE uses twin CT12A's or CT20's and the turbochargers are sequential. This is achieved by the use of a special valve in the exhaust manifold that directs all of the exhaust gasses through one turbocharger until about 4000rpm where the valve opens and the exhaust gasses are then directed evenly between the turbo's.

On both the JZ series of engine, the turbochargers are identically sized.

Manufacturers have struggled over the years to design a sequential twin turbo setup that uses differnt sized turbochargers. Subaru had a crack at it with their early 2 litre Legacy/Liberty B4's and failed dismally. The B4 had a massive power hole between the 1st turbo and the 2nd turbo.

you sure about the 1Jay?

a guy i know has a JZA80 supra with the 1Jay and it seems to me that you can feel the 'sequentialness' as the second turbo kicks in

i may be wrong

i think the series 4 to 6 rx7 13b's had sequential turbos of the same size

[scathing]

Current BMW 335i may be waaaaaaaaay overpriced at $104,000 but thats what an R32 GTR would've cost you in 1991.

I think you've been smoking something if you think the Skyline was a cheap car new!

And that's not taking inflation into account.

[psybic]

Yeah, twin means two as far as I knew. Would you tell a set of twins they were "BI" because they were different sizes? Pfft, stupid people making up meaning for words.

Wank over BMW all you want, I am impressed with an RB26 which was built initially 18 years ago and has similar power output to this brand new engine. If you want to talk about awesome efficiency, what about the S2000 engine. 90kw per litre, no turbo. This engine has 75kw per litre of engine capacity with two turbo's hung off the side. Crap, even the RB26 with the documented 206kw(which we all know is lower than the real story to avoid extra tax due to Japanese law) has 79kw per litre.

Wank over design and bullshit all you want, how many of you have seen the design blue prints and physics calculations that went into all the design aspects of the engine? I'd say the ones that work in BMW engineering section and thats about all.... and thats probably no one contributing here.

Not impressed with awards which are obviously politically motivated.

[GUN_METAL_GTR32]

Breath-taking but I am fan of the RB engine. Let us not forget the fierce power of the RB series.

RB25DE - twin-cam 140 kW/190 PS and 147 kW/200 PS (with VCT) @ 6000 rpm, 255 N·m (26.0 kgf·m) @ 4000 rpm)

RB25DET - twin-cam turbo (245 to 250 hp and 319 N·m)

NEO RB25DET - twin-cam turbo (206 kW (280 PS) @ 6400 rpm, 362 N·m (37.0 kgf·m) @ 3200 rpm)

RB25DE and DET engines produced from August 1993 also featured NVCS (Nissan Variable Cam System) for the intake cam. This gave the new RB25DE more power and torque at lower rpm than the previous model.

r u dumb mate. u can not compare nissan rb engines to those of the bmw family.

[scathing]

Wank over BMW all you want, I am impressed with an RB26 which was built initially 18 years ago and has similar power output to this brand new engine. If you want to talk about awesome efficiency, what about the S2000 engine. 90kw per litre, no turbo. This engine has 75kw per litre of engine capacity with two turbo's hung off the side. Crap, even the RB26 with the documented 206kw(which we all know is lower than the real story to avoid extra tax due to Japanese law) has 79kw per litre.

What extra tax? The 280ps power cap wasn't a tax thing.

And this engine would be far better spread of torque than the RB26DETT (which even by the time it hit R34 guise was still very doughy down low) and F20C, which would make it far more drivable. Since its going into a luxury car and not a balls-out sports car, its also aimed for a different market.

With the next M3 due out in a few months with a far bigger V8 that's rumoured to put out 300kW, what's the bet that the next 335i will make more power, since it then won't threaten the E46 M3's position as the top of the 3 series tree?

Not impressed with awards which are obviously politically motivated.

Hey, nice tinfoil hat!

The engine awards aren't for the highest specific power output. They're for the best all-round road car engine. That includes its construction, use of technology, economy, power delivery, and a whole bunch of other stuff.

[djr81]

Hmm, maybe the people involved in the awards included some of the following in amongst their criteria:

Weight (RB's weigh a tonne)

Emissions (RB's particularly the 26 are a "dirty" engine)

Noise (er.....)

Fuel consumption

Torque

etc etc etc

There is far, far more to building a good motor than just a hedline output figure.

I, for one, am glad that a manufacturer such as BMW still make a straight six - there are very few people who do. That they make a twin turbo version of the same is something to be celebrated. Just have to convince them to put it in an M3 instead if that dumb arsed V8 that they are wanting to use. The M series cars were a much better thing when there was less of them - hell the M3 used to have a four, the M5 a 3.5 litre straight six.

[Forged]

And this engine would be far better spread of torque than the RB26DETT (which even by the time it hit R34 guise was still very doughy down low) and F20C, which would make it far more drivable. Since its going into a luxury car and not a balls-out sports car, its also aimed for a different market.

With the next M3 due out in a few months with a far bigger V8 that's rumoured to put out 300kW, what's the bet that the next 335i will make more power, since it then won't threaten the E46 M3's position as the top of the 3 series tree?

Hey, nice tinfoil hat!

Lets not underestimate this 335i engine either. It is apparently so responsive to mods that many tunners reckon BMW has accidentally created a very capapble engine that would threaten the upcoming M3 V8 as the top choice 3 series engine.

Check this out http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31578

45rwkw from a piggyback and a catback, with a better AFR than stock and 11 psi of boost.

And this is a Jap tunner.

[djr81]

Yeah I sort of had thee feeling that they deliberately specced it so as to not threaten the M3. But it won at Bathurst, which the M3 never did....

[insanity]

7M-GTE was the 3ltr single turbo engine, famous for blowing head gaskets

Actually, I just had a look, it was APril 1989 that the that the Soarer became available with the 1GGTE engine.

The 1G-GTE was available first in the 1986 GA70 Supras....

I don't know of any other Jap production car before that to have a TT setup.