New Club Sprint Rules

[Snowman]

Well apparently CAMS have now altered the rules for the number of cars allowed on the track per session in club sprints.

I can't tell you the exact numbers for all tracks around the country and I'm not sure of the reasoning behind this but I have my guesses.

I had my 1st experience of the new rules down at Phillip Island yesterday where the maximum number of cars allowed onto the track at any one time for a club sprint was increased from the old 14 cars to now allowing 26 cars out together.

My theory is they have done this in an attempt to slow down the crazy fast cars now doing club sprints without roll-cages etc as with that many cars on the track it was damn hard to get a clean lap out. Although Phillip Island is a big track and we were able to get a few good laps out through the day.

Next weekend we are going to Sandown where the limit has been changed from 12 to 20 cars. I think that is going to be harder to get a clean lap in.

But at the same time it was kinda fun with lots of traffic - there was some great "racing" sessions to be had. Also it meant that pretty much you got back and parked your car and check the things you check and then you were already being called back up for your next session. So there was heaps more laps to be had through the day.

So do people think these new rules are a good thing or a bad thing?

The one thing I can say is that in all the years I've done super sprints I have only ever seen 1 incident involving car to car crashes in a club sprint - but they were WRX drivers so you can understand it.

[Beer Baron]

well my main criticism of the interclub championship in nsw is they don't split the sessions into classes, they split them into clubs. so you end up with type 1 running with guys in SVD, race cars with road cars etc. this means that you can have half a lap ruined stuck behind a slower car that is completely oblivious to your existence and a high probability that if you try and stick it up the inside they will just turn in on you. I have at one point passed 8 cars in a lap!

so i'm not so worried about an increase in cars per session, but I really think the sessions need to be groups based on class, not on club. if it were split by class there would not be the huge disparity in times and hence not as many laps wasted passing slower cars.

[Ant97GTR]

Hmmm while it may slow done some of the faster cars I think it will increase the possibilities of a car on car accident due to the increase of overtaking....IMHO a lose lose situation

[sav man]

I went to super sprints on the weekend, and we were told to stick with your own speed group or you'll be put there (and they enforced it), and they hinted that cams want less cars on the track. We run 2 groups of 4, but on a small track. At the start of the year we had a 500hp GT-R get tangeled up with a lotus cortina.

[blacksx]

At the multi car club supersprints (WRX,ALFA,SSCC,HSV&NSCC.) They only run 8 cars on the track at Oran Park and Wakefield at a time a few more at EC.

Overtaking slower car's will alway's be an issue if your in a GTR.

[ferni]

I agree with Ant... traffic = slower laps, and more chance of a car to car bingle...

[Snowman]

Phillip Island wasn't too bad. I'm more worried about places like Winton where the track is much smaller. Will have to see if they use the new rules down there this weekend.

[Beer Baron]

At the multi car club supersprints (WRX,ALFA,SSCC,HSV&NSCC.) They only run 8 cars on the track at Oran Park and Wakefield at a time a few more at EC.

Overtaking slower car's will alway's be an issue if your in a GTR.

well at EC they run 14 at once. 7 groups of 2. I wouldn't even have a problem with say 18 or 20 (though 15 would be better) on EC as long as they are all within a few seconds a lap of each other. release at 5 second intervals and you're golden.

[NickR33]

yeah I don't see a problem when 1 faster car comes up behind 1 slower car and gets waved past... I think problems might occur when you get a long queue of cars all held up behind someone... people start to get frustrated and you have ten cars on the circuit all jammed up together... but perhaps that is the point as Snowy said, I presume most of the big accidents have just been car+wall not car+car so they are just trying to slow people down and aren't too concerned if you rub panels?

I just reckon there are better ways to slow people down (maybe they should ban GTRs again LOL)

[Snowman]

well at EC they run 14 at once. 7 groups of 2. I wouldn't even have a problem with say 18 or 20 (though 15 would be better) on EC as long as they are all within a few seconds a lap of each other. release at 5 second intervals and you're golden.

well PI was 14 until last week. It has just been increased to 26. So that could be the new number for EC.

[Beer Baron]

holy cow. 26 at ec will be nuts. that would mean some cars would be going out straight into other cars on their hot lap. as i think they do 10 second gaps (2 cars go out at once, maybe 3 sec between them). so 260 seconds gives us about 4 and a half minutes to get 26 cars out there which means the first guys will actually be getting traffic entering the track even on their second flying lap out! nasty.

[djr81]

Well for a club sprint the fewer cars on the track at any one time the better. If you are in any way compromised by another car your lap is ruined. Hence it is in your own interest to exit the pits behind another car that is quicker than you. Make sure you take your time on the out lap & give them plenty of space. Ofcourse if they are many seconds a lap slower than you it doesn't help any because you can easily pull back a couple hundred metres.

Truth be told I have found it is easier to get respect (ie preference in the que) from the marshalls if your car is all stickered up or generally stands out. If it is plain Jane they will have trouble remembering it & you tend to get put behind the lame arses in HSV's etc. That makes it doubly difficult because you need a large power advantage to get by cleanly on the straight without resorting to a heroic out braking manouvre which will ruin the lap anyway.

[Ant97GTR]

yeah I don't see a problem when 1 faster car comes up behind 1 slower car and gets waved past...

There isn't much of a problem if this happens on a straight esp for the overtaking car. However if the faster car catches the slower one near a corner or series of corners, then the faster car loses a heap of time through them. This no doubt causes frustration for the driver of the faster car and we all know what can happen if the red mist decends.

I'm not saying this will happen but surely this new rule increases the chance of it happening due to the extra traffic.

[Snowman]

holy cow. 26 at ec will be nuts. that would mean some cars would be going out straight into other cars on their hot lap. as i think they do 10 second gaps (2 cars go out at once, maybe 3 sec between them). so 260 seconds gives us about 4 and a half minutes to get 26 cars out there which means the first guys will actually be getting traffic entering the track even on their second flying lap out! nasty.

They combated that yesterday by letting 2 cars out at a time rather than 1 car approximately 5-10s appart. So it meant IF we got the the front we didn't catch the "last cars". It just meant we used the out lap as an extreme overtaking lap rather than a "warm up" lap.

[Duncan]

I'm sure CAMS are trying to keep the costs down. Insurance goes up so will entry fees unless there are more cars on the track at the same time.

we are all watching the gradual death of club motorsport. supersprinting needs clear tracks. 2 years ago there were 40 cars in our race class, only 17 turned up last weekend.

[Roy]

Yeh, this is silly. Its a limit so i think of the Clerk of Course is thinking about it he wouldnt expand the grid unless the number of entrants dictates. Pretyy stupid to be putting so many cars of different driving ability, speeds etc on teh same corner with the clocks running. It will end badly. and when it does the CAMS/Coroners report will have heads rolling....yeh im with Duncan. Cant see these things lasting much more then another 2-3years. When i first moved to Vic, days were beign booke dout, now you rock up on the day and there are vacancies.

[Ant97GTR]

I tend to disagree Troy. When I first started doing these day in '04 the number of entrants was around the 50 car mark since then these days have about 70-80 cars in attendance and instead of 5 group there are around 7. Setting aside silly rule changes and the like I can see these club days lasting a lot longer than 3 years.

[phunky_monkey]

Well here's hoping!

I'm against it personally for the reasons stated by Troy. It's hard enough to pass on tracks such as Winton as is, let alone with more cars to contend with. Even with cars waving you through, it still slows you down.

Though it will be a bit of fun it won;t be good for times and the potential for accidents is greatly increased in my opinion.

[Beer Baron]

i have the perfect solution. i'm going to move to japan. they have a shed load more tracks. better surfaces. better facilites. cars are plentiful, track days are plentiful. the drivers at these days respect each other and wont hold you up for 3/4 of a lap driving down the middle, then stand on the loud pedal down the straight leaving you with no option other than a banzai move, or another ruined lap.

as usual stupid australian farken law making regulation making weeners take the fun out of anything and everything they can. I want a country with far fewer laws and more leinient enforcement of them.

[phunky_monkey]

^^^ Amen