Drift Australia

[Trust33]

thats true 17-18 year olds are befitting of their age.willo i know mate.it has happend in australian sports as well.many times over...

i love the sport.i had seen it on lots of vids and thought that i would give it a go 2months ago at the sau drfit day and i like the taste of drift.it's a great sport with great people.so much so that im going out to do it again.

im a low budjet drifter i cant afford everything that i want to do to the car.though i like what i have and i i make do with what ive got and it gives me personal satisfaction to link all corners sideways.it's kind of for the love of it for me atm.when i stop it will be because of money,most likely,not because i dont like drifting.

i can see myself being a privateer if it ever came to me competition drifting.though the thought of sponsorship does arouse me!!

[m3gtr]

australia does not have the track support to boost the profile sufficiently, drift australia does a great job and we will continue to support them.

is that with their heritage,roots and responsibilities firmly in mind notwithstanding what you have mentioned as an inhibiting factor?

what is your view of the media coverage and overall attitude of the sport?

By the way, URAS is a Japanese brand. It seems you have made contacts. Are they of Japanese origin?

I am asking this because your "distributors" are not exactly the kinds of places i would associate with top level drift performance upgrades.

Please understand i say this whilst living in Tokyo and my view may be biased depending on your take.

Going back to your statement, why is it that Australia doesnt have the track support? what exactly are you referring to?

[m3gtr]

And why don't they have the track support... because not enough people are not interested. If drifting did bring the crowds I'm sure the tracks would be more than willing to help out. I'm sure as the current generation of drift fans get older and more younger people join the scene the sport will take off, just needs more time and more publicity.

sorry Bam R33...you beat me to it...i was too focussed on the obvious to see that you had already asked the question..

[m3gtr]

Approximately 30 years ago I became involved in drag racing via the usual street scene channels. In those days draggin was looked upon in much the same light that drifting is today. We were the hoons, the street racers, the bodgies or whatever other derogatory title you wish to bestow.

I gave it all away and did the marriage kid deal till now i have the time to do it all again. I am so impressed with the way ANDRA and others have progressed drag racing to where it is right now. The winter nats just finished and i could not help but be amazed by the crowd and the demographics relating to.

There were mums and dads with nippers in tow, grand dad and grandma. Lots of couples all reasonably well dressed and very well behaved. The grounds were relatively clean given the crowd size and the no alcohol rule is well supported and appears to be a major positive. The car parks were full of late model family sedans, wagons, and 4wd's denoting a wide acceptance of the sport by middle class Australia.

The race teams are proffessionally presented and sponsor banners are thick on the ground. All in all the sport has come from obscurity to one of wide acceptance and public support.

I recently dropped by qld raceway to have a look at a drift comp and I can honestly say drifters get what they deserve, Maybe not all of them but compared to the drag racing fraternity they are grubs. How in hell do you expect to attract corporate support when the best you have to offer is a sense of dress that can at best be described as slovenly. The filth and litter just thrown on the ground was worse than any football crowd I ever saw. Drink bottles, food packets. worn out tyres, bits of cars just left laying on the ground. The drift cars themselves were generally untidy and not at all of a standard of finish you could present to a national tv audience much less expect Joe public to pay good money to come and watch.

Some of the driving skills were darn good but on the whole i certainly wouldnt bother returning to see more of the same.

I am not a snob. I am working class and somewhat of a bogan but it isnt rocket science to see why the drift scene is wallowing at the gate and cant really get up and running.

sorry to put in my 3rd post in aminute but you, fineline, have it summed up to a T. Its what i have observed too, and not just from within australia but also with the understanding of how it works where i live now, Tokyo, Japan.

you should see it over here mate. You would definitely change your view on drift and how it CAN be presented.

[Rezz]

When I see drift in Australia, I think that there's too many people thinking "this is the next big thing", but totally ignore the fact that good 'ol V8 loving Australia is outside waiting to get their racing track back after the event and into peoples hands who 'know what they're doing'. It's hard to explain the mentality of the average Aussie when it comes to an Asian derived activity. They might think it's exciting and great to watch, but then the next thing that comes out of their mouth is "Skaifey could do better in a V8 Supercar though".... In order to get any bigger in Australia IMO you've got to appeal to the V8 brigade more... ALOT more. That will probably be suicide for the drift purists, but you're in Australia right? Thats the way it is...

When I see drift in Japan, I see a cultrually respectful group of people using their own countries cars and know-how with full support from big multinational corporations and car companies in an economic environment that was *built on the car*. Car companies in Japan virtually lifted it out of economic doom after WW2, and anything connected with selling more cars or adding to brand mystique or whatever is looked upon favourably. Although with the emphasis now on eco-friendly designs and conservation, I don't know how much longer things like drift and motorsports in general will be tolerated at a local level in Japan... it won't last forever thats for sure.

[m3gtr]

When I see drift in Australia, I think that there's too many people thinking "this is the next big thing", but totally ignore the fact that good 'ol V8 loving Australia is outside waiting to get their racing track back after the event and into peoples hands who 'know what they're doing'. It's hard to explain the mentality of the average Aussie when it comes to an Asian derived activity. They might think it's exciting and great to watch, but then the next thing that comes out of their mouth is "Skaifey could do better in a V8 Supercar though".... In order to get any bigger in Australia IMO you've got to appeal to the V8 brigade more... ALOT more. That will probably be suicide for the drift purists, but you're in Australia right? Thats the way it is...

When I see drift in Japan, I see a cultrually respectful group of people using their own countries cars and know-how with full support from big multinational corporations and car companies in an economic environment that was *built on the car*. Car companies in Japan virtually lifted it out of economic doom after WW2, and anything connected with selling more cars or adding to brand mystique or whatever is looked upon favourably. Although with the emphasis now on eco-friendly designs and conservation, I don't know how much longer things like drift and motorsports in general will be tolerated at a local level in Japan... it won't last forever thats for sure.

Rezz, you make some very valid and insightful points but you are forgetting some others that are just as valid. Is not Australia a country that is made up of other "countries"? And is not japan part of that mix? Do we not have Mitsubishi factories in Oz? Is not the japanese car brand to thank in part ( begrudgingly ) for some of australias positive jobs rate and economic stability?

Is not toyota the second top car seller in the country?

Please dont try and be nationalistic and dare i say it patriotic when it comes to your argument.

You cannot ignore your roots and that is surely the case when it comes to the good old V8 but the same argument applies when australians try to embrace drift with its roots firmly in japan. A student will NEVER be better than the master but through training and diligence, the student can become LIKE the master, knowing all he knows and being able to do all he does. ( a very old proverb )

I dont want arrogance taking over Rezz. Do i need point you back to the bitch fights that stem from V8 supercars and the fact the mass media encourages them due to an overwhelming desire from the general public to witness them?? You tell me of a time you EVER heard or saw a public SPAT between rival Japanese teams IN PUBLIC. You know as well as i do that people over here dont air their dirty laundry in public. Its a lesson australians in motorsport and in general life would do well to learn.

like i said. Worse than springer or just like it.

what is it about aussies that love to see a fight? literally speaking an unfounded purile illegitimate reason to spite the other in order to insight angst and indifference.

Australia needs to clean up its bloody image ON track before any "upstanding" run of the mill citizen will take to it in a different light.

Again, it comes down to respect. People will give respect where it is due and expect it in kind. Otherwise they just wont bother.

where does aussie motorsport stand on this front?

Edited June 12, 2007 by m3gtr

[Rezz]

Rezz, you make some very valid and insightful points but you are forgetting some others that are just as valid. Is not Australia a country that is made up of other "countries"? And is not japan part of that mix? Do we not have Mitsubishi factories in Oz? Is not the japanese car brand to thank in part ( begrudgingly ) for some of australias positive jobs rate and economic stability?

Is not toyota the second top car seller in the country?

Please dont try and be nationalistic and dare i say it patriotic when it comes to your argument.

You cannot ignore your roots and that is surely the case when it comes to the good old V8 but the same argument applies when australians try to embrace drift with its roots firmly in japan. A student will NEVER be better than the master but through training and diligence, the student can become LIKE the master, knowing all he knows and being able to do all he does. ( a very old proverb )

I dont want arrogance taking over Rezz. Do i need point you back to the bitch fights that stem from V8 supercars and the fact the mass media encourages them due to an overwhelming desire from the general public to witness them?? You tell me of a time you EVER heard or saw a public SPAT between rival Japanese teams IN PUBLIC. You know as well as i do that people over here dont air their dirty laundry in public. Its a lesson australians in motorsport and in general life would do well to learn.

like i said. Worse than springer or just like it.

what is it about aussies that love to see a fight? literally speaking an unfounded purile illegitimate reason to spite the other in order to insight angst and indifference.

Australia needs to clean up its bloody image ON track before any "upstanding" run of the mill citizen will take to it in a different light.

Again, it comes down to respect. People will give respect where it is due and expect it in kind. Otherwise they just wont bother.

where does aussie motorsport stand on this front?

Me patriotic? I'm just stating it the way I see it. I'm not quite sure what you mean with all that about being nationalistic, but it's an uphill battle trying to promote an obviously Japanese originated motorsport in Australia with the 'power base' rooted firmly in V8 Touring car racing. This fact alone will keep Drift at the current level unless the 'power base' becomes interesed... they won't have any interest if there isn't a viable business case put before them... in order to do that you'd have to sell out to the V8 crowd. Like I said, that would amount to suicide for drift purists. Holden v Ford drift... sounds awesome.

With the 'arrogance taking over'... I don't think people like seeing that permiate in as much as they like talking shit on the culprits ie "See that wanker when he did his post-race interview? rah rah rah..." they like talking shit, but need some arrogant tool to instigate it. Controversy..... You're right, that'd never happen here (Japan) but then again, Japanese are cultrually more respectful of each other at face value. In Australia there isn't that rigid social expectation to 'be a certain way'. You're going to get people jokingly (or seriously) slagging off others in Australia... thats part of the culture. This isn't confined to motorsports, you get it everywhere.

Anyway, I hope some breakthrough does happen and drift gets the respect and support it needs to grow.

[Snowman]

I think you are missing one important point here. As a sport Drifting is ghey.

No no - seriously it is. And right now it's full of people deciding what is a drift and what is a power slide (like who cares seriously).

Don't get me wrong sliding around in a car is a HELL of a lot of fun - but as a sport it has a major flaw.

Same with other sports like synchronized swimming, figure skating, that stupid sport where they get horses walking in funny ways, etc - the problem with drifting is that whilst there are fundimental rules as to what makes a good drift the final result still comes down to someones opinion rather than any specific fact. Any sport IMO that is based around a judges decision is highly overated. Americans seem to like them but then they like baseball. So do the Japanese for that matter.

Most people who love cars and motorsport that I know that don't like drift, don't like it for this simple reason. If the rules get changed and there are specific MEASURED points for things like angle and speed then more people like me would be interested.

Until then the sport is ghey.

[dodgybrooks]

I think you are missing one important point here. As a sport Drifting is ghey.

No no - seriously it is. And right now it's full of people deciding what is a drift and what is a power slide (like who cares seriously).

Don't get me wrong sliding around in a car is a HELL of a lot of fun - but as a sport it has a major flaw.

Same with other sports like synchronized swimming, figure skating, that stupid sport where they get horses walking in funny ways, etc - the problem with drifting is that whilst there are fundimental rules as to what makes a good drift the final result still comes down to someones opinion rather than any specific fact. Any sport IMO that is based around a judges decision is highly overated. Americans seem to like them but then they like baseball. So do the Japanese for that matter.

Most people who love cars and motorsport that I know that don't like drift, don't like it for this simple reason. If the rules get changed and there are specific MEASURED points for things like angle and speed then more people like me would be interested.

Until then the sport is ghey.

Surfing does alright, and it's a judged sport.

Drift is great fun to do and watch, and although the judging bit does suck a tad it doesn't make drifting ghey.

[scathing]

Rezz, you make some very valid and insightful points but you are forgetting some others that are just as valid. Is not Australia a country that is made up of other "countries"? And is not japan part of that mix? Do we not have Mitsubishi factories in Oz? Is not the japanese car brand to thank in part ( begrudgingly ) for some of australias positive jobs rate and economic stability?

Is not toyota the second top car seller in the country?

Please dont try and be nationalistic and dare i say it patriotic when it comes to your argument.

He's not. Those people who buy locally made Mitsubishis, or Toyotas, pretty much don't count.

I'm not being bigoted. Have a look at Toyota's range. There isn't one sports car in it anymore. And the last two they brought into the country were half baked (the flappy-paddle only MR2 and the "lets engineer a gearset that drops me off VVTi" Celica). Its almost the same for Mitsubishi - the locally made car isn't remotely sporty and, at last check, it tanked when it went to market. They do have the Evo in the mix, which is an awesome car, but not that common and so its owner base doesn't have the numbers either.

So the vast majority of Toyota and Aussie-made Mitsubishi owners look upon their cars as an appliance. There's no love - its just a tool. And that means they're not going to be interested in motorsport. And given that neither company has a car that's near-ready for drifting, relatively speaking it'll cost them a lot more to prep a competitive car. That's a big risk for the marketing men who knows their brands trade off being cardigan cars.

If you're parochial enough to only buy an "Australian made performance car", you're a Holden man or a Ford man. By all accounts Robbie Bulger running the ute, and then Monaro, as well as Ford's DRIF6, brought a few locals in to "support the brand" but attendance still isn't there.

The only way I can see drifting picking up a lot of national coverage in a hurry is to get picked up as a support event at a V8 Supercar round, like the Elise and Porsche Cup races. But I can't see Ford / Holden ever permitting that. Porsche and Lotus aren't exactly competitors for Ford and Holden, but the Japanese manufacturers are. Since the vast majority of drift machines in Australia are Japanese-made, there's no way they'll permit them to muscle in on their mindshare.

Otherwise, look at what happened to Procar. They had some hot exotica (Lambos, Viper, Ferraris, etc) which your average punter would consider aspirational in Nation's Cup, as well as "production cars" in GT-P that are similar to what said punters would actually drive, but they still got buried by the racing taxis.

[scathing]

Surfing does alright, and it's a judged sport.

That's beerbaron's point exactly. It does OK, it doesn't do well. Considering how long surfing's been around for, and the Australian "beach culture" mindset, you'd think it would do a lot better.

But its still nowhere near rugby union's status (which is, lets face it, a snobby "private school" game) let alone league or AFL. Or V8 Supercars. Or, as a more direct comparison, even swimming.

I'm with beerbaron on this. I love watching drifting and going for a bit of a skid occasionally (on the track or skidpan only, of course), but for me its a side show to motor racing. Drifting is something drivers do to have fun and blow off some steam; racing is what they do when they get serious.

As an analogy, look at basketball. You've got the Harlem Globetrotters doing all their cool moves when they do their demonstration games, or the dunking comps. But they're half time antics. When they're finished arsing about, the players go back to a game that has an objective method of calculating a winner.

[Roy]

Its a good spectacle and takes skill no doubt. But it will struggle to grow to the scale of Japanese Drift etc because of the size of our population and what ppl care about cars and motorsport, well they support the V8s. More importantly any money ready to go into motorsport is thrown at V8s, what little is left over is spent with fostering tomorrows drivers in the lesser classes and fostering talent in state level and club level motorsport.

My biggest gripe with drifting? It has tried to grow too quick. No doubt the people responsible for its growth in Aus should be congratulated. They have done a great job and spent countless hours giving enthusiasts the avenues to go drifting. But, i have to pay to go a long and watch a drift event. An event with mostly noviced hitting each other and spinning out (Lol, yes it has been years since i have been in one or entered an event), and is no doubt better these days. So all too soon payign spectators walked away because they werent seeing what they get in an Option DVD. Club days, spectating is free. I competed in a few drift days and the tone amongst entrants wasnt warm. Organisers were cool, but entrants werent as warm and typically spectators hung way too much sh1t on the mug entrants. Mind you i would want a better show if i had been made to pay

So where it stands today? I havent been to an event in years and i have to say i havent entered one in years reither. Maybe its time i jump back in and see what i see...but i woudl suggest many entrants and spectators may be a little shy about getting back out there. Especially when there is free entry to track days run by car clubs, and they are pretty socialable with kids and families in attendaance...hell ask a car owner and sign a disclaimer you can even go for laps in the cars for free....far more welcoming form of motorsport.

...dont shoot me...just a perspective

[dodgybrooks]

That's beerbaron's point exactly. It does OK, it doesn't do well. Considering how long surfing's been around for, and the Australian "beach culture" mindset, you'd think it would do a lot better.

Surfing is a huge international sport, spawned huge clothing companies, magazines and an entire culture.

But its still nowhere near rugby union's status (which is, lets face it, a snobby "private school" game) let alone league or AFL. Or V8 Supercars. Or, as a more direct comparison, even swimming.

Don't kid yourself, no motor sport comes close to the popularity of AFL and rugby (and soccer in all those more educated countries than our simple own).

That wasn't my point though. Just because the winner is picked by judges doesn't make drift ghey, that was my point.

All sports in their infant days are exactly that, infant. Bumbling about shitting themselves and not making any friends. Drift will grow up and become an important part of motor sport in time.

[Starionturbo]

Drifting...... Its a great form of motorsport, I really enjoy It, I suppose you really have to get into it and have a car setup for it to truly enjoy it otherwise you are just fighting the car or breaking it - which is not fun.

As far as popularity goes, Comparing spectator crowds to PRIVATE CLUB track racing days and drift days is stupid, far more people come to the drifting.

In Victoria, drifting hasnt taken off hugely due to the lack of and distance to the racetracks. Winton is absurdly far away and calder is Pretty boring in my opinion. I often do the sums, and to go to a winton PRACTISE day costs an absolute MINIMUM of 500 dollars. And the drifting takes its toll on the vehicle, so mechanical failures and accidents are common.

As for all the circuit addicts, drift is a form of motorsport which can be done with a professional setup car or a grass roots street car.I cant take my near stock car and hope for it to lap a decent time. At the same time, the big guns are laughing with there big dollar setups. Power doesnt mean everything - just look at all the cheap corollas, datsuns, s13s that perform just as well as the big dollar drift cars. I dont think the same can be said when it comes to circuit racing, where its kind of like, he who has the deepest pockets, wins. A good example is of the world D1 championships (Japan,USA,GB and Malaysia) - where you get drivers that make it in the top 3 with 1.6 liter Naturally Aspirated Corollas making 200 hp and 1000 horsepower big block Dodge Vipers and Pontiac GTOs.

Edited June 13, 2007 by Starionturbo

[Roy]

My point is private track days dont charge you to watch novice drivers. Drift does. If a sport is growing and trying to get off the ground, in my eyes it can make things a bit harder if you are charging the people to spectate, it raises their expectations on what they anticipate seeing

Any car can cut a decent lap time. Ppl who know what they are on about (i know you appreciate the effort and hard work to punt any car around...so understand perfectly what you are saying...but meh to the ppl that have no idea and are only impressed by the uber dollar cars.) appreciate how much work is involved in getting a Dastun 1000sedan with a CA18DET to do a 1:32. Its as respected as the guy who is doing 1:18s in his mega GTR.

As for the expense and distances onvolved...its no different for any of us. You want to be involved in your choice of motorsport then you have to cough up the dollars and hit ther blacktop for the 250km drives to the track.

LOL...i still love how ppl get upset when others say Drift isnt a form of motorsport I wich Sprints werent classified as motorsport, the insurance would be cheaper and events more accessible

[STATUS]

And why don't they have the track support... because not enough people are not interested. If drifting did bring the crowds I'm sure the tracks would be more than willing to help out. I'm sure as the current generation of drift fans get older and more younger people join the scene the sport will take off, just needs more time and more publicity.

tracks other than queensland, oran and wakefield HATE drift and go out of their way to make it difficult to get track time.... try getting normal practice sessions at calder... i mean they offer other race teams days but soon as you mention drift "oh drift, nah sorry'

[STATUS]

My point is private track days dont charge you to watch novice drivers. Drift does. If a sport is growing and trying to get off the ground, in my eyes it can make things a bit harder if you are charging the people to spectate, it raises their expectations on what they anticipate seeing

Any car can cut a decent lap time. Ppl who know what they are on about appreciate how much work is involved in getting a Dastun 1000sedan with a CA18DET to do a 1:32. Its as respected as the guy who is doing 1:18s in his mega GTR.

As for the expense and distances onvolved...its no different for any of us. You want to be involved in your choice of motorsport then you have to cough up the dollars and hit ther blacktop for the 250km drives to the track.

LOL...i still love how ppl get upset when others say Drift isnt a form of motorsport I wich Sprints werent classified as motorsport, the insurance would be cheaper and events more accessible

hhha i agree practice nights should be free for spectators.. even if we have to pay more. It will weed out the tools anyway. Paying spectators at calder expect to see drift and when they see us do only a few corners at a time or trying differrent approaches to dial things in they go away feeling jaded and it refelects badly on the drivers and the sport. practice days should be free.

That said some of the DA teams have the family connections and coin to rent out the willing tracks for a few days before each event... peer and robbie are known for this. Well done to them, i just wish we had the coin and connections to do the same. hey guys send us an invite next time

[Roy]

Attending CAMS meetings i did hear that the "Old Boys" dont like what happens to the track surface. I have heard a few comment that it affects the State Series that are run at the same tracks.

But, it has nothing to do with the specatators. It has to do with management and dollars. Drift is a young scene and sport. They struggle for like minded ppl involved and experienced in motorsport. So they cant use "their' officials, Stewards, Clerk of Course etc to help get the CAMS permits to run the events at major tracks liek PI/ EC etc etc. Its a logistics thing. Then there is the cost that woudl have to be passed onto the entrants etc to use such events.

Club Sprints are too at risk as the older gents who have volunteered their time and weekends for decades to help young and old enjoy their grass roots motorsport begine to retire and do other things. Its up to the younger guys to get their officials licences, act responsibly and becomes scrutineers, Stewards, flaggies etc etc. Then a good bunch of ppl can get the infrastructure to do regular days at tracks.

If car clubs liek WRX Vic and HSV/FPV can hire Phillip Island for L2S Sprints etc, then it can be hired for drift stuff if you demonstrate to the powers that be that the participants are not loose cannons who are going to damage their faciilties

[STATUS]

If car clubs liek WRX Vic and HSV/FPV can hire Phillip Island for L2S Sprints etc, then it can be hired for drift stuff if you demonstrate to the powers that be that the participants are not loose cannons who are going to damage their faciilties

i have offered to pay up to 3k (split between 3 or 4 makes for more laps than you could possibly have tyres for) to hire out a track and they were not interested in the past even if the track was not booked on the day.... they still look at drifters as the devil hopefully with time things will change..... if not we will take a little trip overseas

i must admit the new manager at calder may help our cause, looking forward to the changes.

[Starionturbo]

fair enough, I too think spectators should not be charged for a practise event.

I doubt anything will change in the near future with drifting in Victoria.