Brake Pads For The Street

[nsta]

As per title what brake pads for the street on an r33 with around 180rwkw......, only street driving....i was thinking of the sss pads by endless, but theyre quite pricy, unless theres some deals going on, i think its times to replace both front/rear pads as well.

Also, do i need to upgrade rotors when i get to my goal of 250rwkw?, and what fluid should i use when replacing the brakes?

thanks

[benm]

I used Bendix Ultimates with Motul RBF600 with no problems for the street. I did at once stage use RB74 front pads but they took abit too long to get heat into them for daily driving.

[Abo Bob]

I used to love the ultimates but they chew your rotors something savage.

I now use Ferodo DS2500. Twice the price but lasts 6 times as long and doesn't rips the rotors.

You replace the rotors when your current ones wear out.

I have not had problems with pretty much any old Super Dot 4 fluid. The RBF600 certainly has the best specs although I've heard you need to change it more often because it is more hydroscopic than a Dot 4 or Super Dot 4 fluid. Basically the higher the numbers the higher the boiling point and therefore the better performing, but, as the numbers go up the fluids absorb more water so need to be changed more regularly.

All except 5 which doesn't absorb water at all so don't use it. 5.1 is fine though.

[Trav33]

Basically the higher the numbers the higher the boiling point and therefore the better performing, but, as the numbers go up the fluids absorb more water so need to be changed more regularly.

All except 5 which doesn't absorb water at all so don't use it. 5.1 is fine though.

If you dont want your brake fluid to absorb mositure, wouldnt DOT5 be good, if you're saying it doesnt absorb water at all?

[Kinks]

when brake fluid absorbs water its boiling point decreases... say from 400C to 350C. just pulling a number out my arse.

when you use DOT5 fluid it doesn't absorb water at all, so you end up with water in your calipers which a) rusts your pistons and b) boils at 100C, which is much lower than old brake fluid boils.

DOT5 is only for race cars where the fluid is bled VERY regularly. bad for street cars.

[Trav33]

Thanks Kinks - you learn something new everyday.

Is there Dot6 around too? I guess that would need replacement more often.

How often should Dot5.1 be flushed + bled?

[siddr20]

i would like to know as well..

i put dot 5.1 in for track day.. track day is over.. would i need to flush it out? what can a replacement fluid be for normal street use..

Nsta- Just use standard nissan pads.. they do the job fine for normal street driving..

If not, i like the project mu's

Have used them before and work very well..

[tjandriesen]

I'm running Nismo S-Tune pads. Great on the street and the track. No issues stopping cold.

[Roy]

I think ppl get too carried away with regard to Dot 5 and needing to be changed regularly, absorbing water etc etc. I have run nohting but and at times have let it go out to a year between even touching fluids, and there is normally no difference in pedal feel from old to new. Its more to do with the fresh pads i put in.

[Eug]

hydroscopic

just being nit picky here...

the correct term is hydrophilic.

hydroscope is used to look under water.

when brake fluid absorbs water its boiling point decreases... say from 400C to 350C. just pulling a number out my arse.

when you use DOT5 fluid it doesn't absorb water at all, so you end up with water in your calipers which a) rusts your pistons and b) boils at 100C, which is much lower than old brake fluid boils.

DOT5 is only for race cars where the fluid is bled VERY regularly. bad for street cars.

i never knew that... interesting

tend to agree with what roy said, i don't flush as regularly as i'd like - but more so with each pad change (which most of us would do a few times a year anyway).

[siksII]

For heavy street use i would recommend Ferodo TS2000 aka Formula.

I have looked around for a pad that performs somewhere between say Bendix Ultimates and Ferodo DS2500s and the Formulas seem like the best compromise.

Ultimates are about $100, Formulas are around $180 and DS2500s are now ~$290 (retail prices)

For light street use there is not much between those three pads.. For hard use the Formulas are a lot better. DS2500s are not worth the $$ unless you are using them for track work as well.

I would avoid using Ultimates again just for the fact that they badly destroy rotors. The Formulas are much better in that respect.

[Kinks]

the correct term is hydrophilic.

I've never used hydrophilic used to describe brake fluid, only hygroscopic. But both words are close enough

Also, DOT5 is totally different to DOT5.1 - don't get them mixed up

[Eug]

I've never used hydrophilic used to describe brake fluid, only hygroscopic. But both words are close enough

Also, DOT5 is totally different to DOT5.1 - don't get them mixed up

hahaha thanks for that i have a chemical background.

diff between 5 and 5.1?

[Trav33]

I did some googling, and thought i'd share my findings re brake fluids:

DOT 3, 4 or 5.1 indicates a glycol based fluid. DOT5.1 was designed with ABS systems in mind, where they need a lighter viscosity.

DOT5 indicates a silicone based fluid.

Glycol-based fluids are generally very hygroscopic, which means they readily absorb water (even from the atmosphere), which in turn lowers their boiling points, and lowers their overall effectiveness. It's recommended to only use brake fluid from an unopened container; once the bottle's been cracked, the remaining brake fluid quickly absorbs moisture from the

surrounding air. Even if you close the bottle immediately after use, there's usually a large charge of air trapped in the bottle enough to often ruin the rest of the fluid. Glycol fluids are also degraded by exposure to sunlight, and are well known and respected for their ability to almost instantly ruin painted surfaces

Silicone fluids are much less sensitive to environmental variables. They're essentially non-hygroscopic, eliminating the need for frequent fluid changes, careful handling, or wasting half-used bottles. This property also assures that the boiling point of the fluid remains fairly constant over relatively long periods of time. Military vehicles often use silicone-based fluids due to their ability to provide consistent performance over time, in inclement conditions, and without the need for frequent fluid changes.

Glycol-based fluids are generally non-compressible meaning that the force exerted by the master cylinder piston is transmitted directly to the caliper pistons. Glycol-based fluids give us the action and brake feel close to that of a straight mechanical linkage, but in a flexible hydraulic package. Silicone-based fluids, on the other hand, are somewhat compressible, giving a sponge-like feel at the lever, resulting in reduced braking force, delayed braking action, and vague feedback. In other words - they're not something you'd want to use if stopping quickly was your main concern.

In conclusion : Stay clear of DOT5 fluids!!!!

Edited June 17, 2007 by Trav33

[Abo Bob]

Exactly. And haven't you had to rebuild your calipers Roy?

All this business is hibroscopic!

[Trav33]

For heavy street use i would recommend Ferodo TS2000 aka Formula.

I have looked around for a pad that performs somewhere between say Bendix Ultimates and Ferodo DS2500s and the Formulas seem like the best compromise.

Ultimates are about $100, Formulas are around $180 and DS2500s are now ~$290 (retail prices)

For light street use there is not much between those three pads.. For hard use the Formulas are a lot better. DS2500s are not worth the $$ unless you are using them for track work as well.

I would avoid using Ultimates again just for the fact that they badly destroy rotors. The Formulas are much better in that respect.

I need new pads, and from all my forum reading i was set on the DS2500's, until i saw the price mentioned in siksII's post. Ouch! But you've made an awesome comment about Ferodo TS2000 (Formulas) being in the middle between Bendix Ulimates (rotor chompers) and DS2500's (too expensive). I will probably try a couple sets of these on the front+rear.

[siksII]

I need new pads, and from all my forum reading i was set on the DS2500's, until i saw the price mentioned in siksII's post. Ouch! But you've made an awesome comment about Ferodo TS2000 (Formulas) being in the middle between Bendix Ulimates (rotor chompers) and DS2500's (too expensive). I will probably try a couple sets of these on the front+rear.

Thanks mate, i made a lot of calls and weighed up the options for many hours before making up my mind.. Im really indecisive.

The only other option in between the Formulas and the DS2500 is a new compound by Bendix called the SRT. They are about $250 and are meant to compete with pads like the DS2500.. I dont know anyone who has used them yet.

FYI the Ferodo Formulas have COF of 0.46 where DS2500s are 0.50, not much difference.. although the pads are made in different places so i think there is a bit more too it than just the COF when comparing the two pads.

[Trav33]

Im really indecisive.

Me too! I think i am?!?!

[siksII]

Me too! I think i am?!?!

Hmm come to think of it... im not really sure! :laughing-smiley-014:

[MANWHORE]

I've never used those ds2500 pads, but was thinking about giving them a go. They're certainly not so cheap to just pick up a few different brands at the local store to give them a test.

Guys, while changing brake fluid may or may not improve pedal feel, the idea is to change is as preventitative maintenance. If you don't, the moisture will rust components. I try and do it every 12 months (i'd prefer 6, but i'm lazy). I buy 3 bottles of castrol ersponse super dot 4. Costs about $24. That's cheaper than an oil change. Takes about 1-2 hours.