I Killed My Rb25... Again:(

[Espo]

Reading what Nick has said I don't think the lack of baffled sump is to blame.....however not over filling the car + the fact it doesn't have a baffled sump cannot be good. First and foremost Benno recommends that you over fill the car with oil...once thats taken care of any other mod like the baffles etc etc is extra insurance.

When you talk over fill. How much oil is going in a stock rb25 with no oil cooler ect.

[Roy]

Surely the clour of the oil isnt the best tell tale of oil condition. I would have thought that the level of detergeants in the oil also helps on that front. To me clean oil after 2000kms of abuse??? Makes me wonder where all the blow by, fuel contamination and carbon is going? If its not hitching a ride out of the engien with an oil change, not gettign held up in the filter...then its still in there.

[NickR33]

no worries Al... was really just posting this to give some of the 25 guys a heads up...

Craig I think its 4.5L to fill her up...

Yeah Roy the oil was black as coal when I looked at it the Fri before I hit the track... but I thought... she'll be right lol

[khunjeng]

Group V oils are the bee's knees. Lots of moly and good HTHS sheer ratings. (this is an oil thread btw!)

Redline or Motul 300V are the brands of choice for any serious work. I do UOAs on my oil and Reldine has intresting results do to the addatives.

Black is not a bad thing, I would say it means ur oil is doing the right thing!

penrite and Castrol as mentioned are group IIIs. On top of that ur running a gp III with a wide visc spread...too many VIIs!

Mobile 1 at a minmum...but for u Nick redline all the way for ur track work, dunno why any1 would even consider running anything less than a Group V for these type of track cars, HTHS ratings are much better i.e. better under stress and load. U should see ur engine after a few cycles...it looks brand new and shiney.

Dont guess its condition...use good oil and do Use Oil Analysis (UOA) cost about $30 and will tell u exactly whats going on.

[Ronin 09]

interesting opinions on oils, but why do the track GTRs run Castrol Edge 10/60?

[Victory]

One of the main problems is the retention of oil in the back of the head on any of the RB series of engines. This is solved by running an oil line from the oil welsh plug in the back of the head down to the side of the sump on the drivers side.

The attached pictures show some good examples of this.

[Starionturbo]

Sorry to hear about your engine.

Through the years, it is very seldom that I have heard of RB25s having bearing failure due to oil starvation, but i guess theres always exceptions. Putting a sump on it I would say is unecessary but a good oil cooler and pump helps.

As for the penrite stuff - I would throw it away rather than put it in my car.

For years in all my cars I have run the Castrol Sythetic R (aka Formula R) and havent had a problem. I have to admit the oil comes out pretty second rate on changes after 5000 kilometers, but neverthless hasnt given me any hassles.

The Motul and Redline Oils are both Extremely good, The Redline oil in particular is a must if your driving a highly stressed out engine, it is much more expensive, but if your using the car in competition, I would recommend it. Circuit driving is far more demanding that drift, in a way that you are driving the car at its limit most of the time doing several laps, where at a drift circuit you might do 1 pass and let it cool or do a handful of laps at the most.

Whether it be circuit or drifting, I beleive that if you compete you should adeqately set up your vehicle, not only for it to perform the best, but to preserve the engine and drivertrain.

[FineLine]

For what its worth mate here is the setup I am installing in my build. Oil is everything to me.

Stage 3 Hi energy gated and baffled sump. chamfered and cleaned oil gallerys, Restrictors (I have converted the head to solid valvetrain) Jun oil pump. Bit pricey but based on research it is superior to the N1. HKS oil cooler. Bleed back from the head to the sump. My choice in oil has is redline but due to it being hard to obtain on an over the counter basis I have used and will continue to use motul .

Short of going to a dry sump setup I dont think there is much more I can do to give me as good an oiling system as I can get.

[Roy]

This is all very good and well...but lets not lose sight of the fact that there are plenty of ppl maign good power on std motors without all this oil control, blah, blah, blah and have been doing so reliably for quite some time. I dont doubt that my bottom end will let go, but its because im running the boost and revs i am...something has to give and it wont be becase i dont have a modified head, sump etc etc.

Overfill the sump a little, use good oil and you are away. I am the worlds biggest sceptic for all these super oils by Redline etc. Too many gearboxes go bang, and they seem to be good for ppl that want to run their oil for 50,000kms. Show me a race team with turbocharged cars using their oils, not a fleet of semis using it in their diesel truck engines that are red lined at 4,500rpm. But a race team that genuinely uses them.

I dont know, im just a little sceptical of the claims of the uber oil by small niche manufacturers. Perhaps the Motul woudl be aok, but not offered in the viscosity i like to run in a std Nissan engine that is makign 150% more power then std with std toerlances, cooling and oiling systems. I will take the extra viscosity for piece of mind

[Al]

Well said Troy and food for thought.

But, if you had to rebuild a engine and had the financies, whould you use these precautionary measures?

[R31Nismoid]

How about you define a budget if we wanna go down the "would you do it" route?

Because not everyone has the cash for everything. Whilst something maybe "nice" to have, it does not mean its a necessity by any means

[Russman]

One of the main problems is the retention of oil in the back of the head on any of the RB series of engines. This is solved by running an oil line from the oil welsh plug in the back of the head down to the side of the sump on the drivers side.

The attached pictures show some good examples of this.

I was very pleased when I was under my car for the first time to see that that plumbing from head to sump had been done.

I will take the extra viscosity for piece of mind

What do you mean by extra viscosity?

[Al]

How about you define a budget if we wanna go down the "would you do it" route?

Because not everyone has the cash for everything. Whilst something maybe "nice" to have, it does not mean its a necessity by any means

I am not talking about building you "dream machine" here, just a realistic rebuild budget; after all i am not a member of the Paker family .

I agree with your statement above. Is it a necessity; probably not (have stated that i swing on the side of caution).

Look at it this way: Alot of people think car insurance is not necessary (possibly due to finance issues), but what they don't consider is; what happens in that 1-in-1BIL chance they write off a Ferarri 430?

I would rather spend $700-$800 on a baffled sump to insure the life of a $10k+ assett. Which is not to say that something else could fail and damage the engine.

[Downforce]

What do you mean by extra viscosity?

thicker oil.

[R31Nismoid]

$700 for a better sump? I wish a decent sump was that cheap.

I realise we are not talking about dream machines. But if all the other oil issues are addressed. You run of the mill RWD car does not require a sump.

You wouldnt put a larger sump on there without doing the proper oil mods, and then once they are dont it fixes what would be the bandaid (the sump)

[Al]

Proper oil mods.................. check (as per SK thread and also RB30 thread, most of which EAS knew about already)

Sump...............Check

Not too sure what quality you would consider the H.E. sump, but i think they're damn good and mine cost me about $800 for the circuit type. I just thought there would be cheaper options on the market

[ferni]

interesting opinions on oils, but why do the track GTRs run Castrol Edge 10/60?

Because Benno says so! That's all i need to know.

[Roy]

LOL... he really need to patent the term "Ben Spec"

I have a bunch of parts laying around which i want to make a motor out of. The main problem its all this added insurance that adds so much cost to the build that it hasnt been started. By the tme you have paid for a sump and and big dollar oil pump, then head mods (ok they are cheap), but where does it end. LOL...the longer my motor hangs together the more inclined i am to stick with std Nissan. Every 3-4years throw another $400-600 wrecker motor at it. Remember, Rule 671, R32 GTSt owners are TIGHT ASSESS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[khunjeng]

oil conversations going around based on some stuff some guy told u a while back or something u googled.

Dont guess, use facts. Do UOAs and work out what it means then do I few to see what it going on.

you spent 15k on an engine and then guess or skimp on ur your oil? lol People have been using Redline GEAR oil i.e. shockproof in thei GB...no suprise to me we read about them dying. Use a GB oil with the approipite friction modifiers, not a gear oil. If u change ur oil veer 2k then yeah no point use M1, Moly oils like redline need to go for some time to get the addatives to work.

Make sure u use a Group 4 or 5 oil. Not this 3 stuff like the castrol being mentioned.

As for extra viscosity...for a pure track car...no drama. Check the cSt ratings at 100 deg. W60s or similar have high numbers.

for street...use 40 as a max...its not about piece of mind its about the right applciation. 90% of engine wear occur at startup and W50s or 60 take ages to get to op. temp. Fine for the track,

[Roy]

But everybody, even Redline recommend to use their Shockproog oils in gearboxes. All sorts of claims about helping synchros etc. But look at their website (US) and it says not to be used in synchro gearboxes...but Aus says to use it. Plus too many tales of things going bang.

I will stick with Castrol for everything, its just what im comfortable with and to date has been good to me The only other engine oil i have used is Mobl 1, but cant find anywhere is Vic that sells the higher viscosity that it is available in