Twin Charging Question

[unarmed_skyline]

OK i got no clue if this is right but it was my thoughts

Now the power/ responce has part to do with boost and part to do with air volume.

now say you were running a turbo running 10 pound actuator out of a stock turbo, rather small say the outlet is 1.5" (i have no clu just guessing) then you run a supercharger also running 10 pound wheel with a 1.5" outlet

now if you run both these into a twin entry cooler with a 3" outlet and 3"piping all the way threw to the intake

i know that the system would only pump out about 10 pound into the mainfold but would the extra flow be worth it?

it is really just the same as running a turbo with a 3" outlet but it wouldnt have the associated lag with the system,

i hope you can understand what im saying made more sence in my head lol.

[Bl0r]

OK i got no clue if this is right but it was my thoughts

Now the power/ responce has part to do with boost and part to do with air volume.

now say you were running a turbo running 10 pound actuator out of a stock turbo, rather small say the outlet is 1.5" (i have no clu just guessing) then you run a supercharger also running 10 pound wheel with a 1.5" outlet

now if you run both these into a twin entry cooler with a 3" outlet and 3"piping all the way threw to the intake

i know that the system would only pump out about 10 pound into the mainfold but would the extra flow be worth it?

it is really just the same as running a turbo with a 3" outlet but it wouldnt have the associated lag with the system,

i hope you can understand what im saying made more sence in my head lol.

by 10 pound actuator, you mean a wastegate actuator?

from what i gather your saying you pump 10psi out of two 1.5" inlets, one inlet being fed by a charger and one by a turbo?

and this should be equivelent in power to a turbo pumping out 10psi into a 3" straight through setup?

hehe, no. supercharger and turbo setups are difficult. the charge they pump in relation to their rpm is totally different, charger pressure graphs are linear, turbo graphs are curves. you can run a charger and a turbo, but not at the same time. you would need to make it sequencial somehow, which isnt really worth the headache. the same idea goes behind a sequencial turbo setup. use a smaller turbo for low end and a bigger turbo for top end. they dont do to well and its no use making it overly complicated.

again its the same as putting two turbos on a rb26 of different sizes and matching their actuators to dump x amount of gas. its not really going to work well.

[unarmed_skyline]

yeh i understand they have completly different boost curved supercharger being relitvly liner and turbo completly different,

and i know that most set up's use them sequentionally that way you can run a really big turbo with the supercharger for the

low down toqure thus no lag

but i am just wondering why you cannot run both at once??

[Craved]

yes you can run both at once..

member here made a twin charged rb25/30 in a VL --- look in the rb30 sticky for pics and details

[wlspn]

This months copy of Redline magazine (yes I know its sh*t but I get it for free) features a S15 with a BEE-R supercharger kit & a turbo. The magazine says that air is fed through the turbo, THEN through the supercharger, which being a mechanic is against everything I have been taught. Make of that what you will....

[StockyMcStock]

here you go:

http://www.performanceforums.com/forums/sh...ght=contraption

read it all, it's worthwhile. it does work very well indeed.

[Adriano]

I believe it can be done very successfully. First up are you good at fabricating, ex manifolds etc...If not are you prepared to spend over 10k doing it

[Craved]

here you go:

http://www.performanceforums.com/forums/sh...ght=contraption

read it all, it's worthwhile. it does work very well indeed.

there you are lol

[unarmed_skyline]

i've read heaps about twincharging and the asociated costs, but exevything i've read is run threw the charger then threw the turbo and are always a sequention set-up where the supercharger cuts off when the turbo kicks in,

what im trying to work out is it is possible to run them both at the same time, and run separatly not threw each other

and also is it going to give any power gains

i reckon if its possible to do it could be done retilivly cheap, run a microtech with a map sensor, do all your normal full pump/injector mods, get a twin entry cooler, then try it with a stock turbo and a v6 toyota blower (i know they are gay but this is a cheap example).

all that needs to be fabed would be the brackets and belt set-up for the charger which isnt to hard then setting up with piping, then tune it all,

[Kranker]

Do you mean something a bit like what VW have in their new Golf GT?

Supercharger with a clutch, and a turbo. The work independantly, but the supercharger masks the lack of low rpm boost from the turbo, then at around 3500rpm a clutch cuts the SC and the turbo works alone. This avoids the SC draining power at high revs.

............At least I think thats the basic idea behind it.

Dont know how youd get the clutch to work...maybe Mad Max style with a button on ur gear stick, haha

If you had the SC pumping air into a pipe between the turbo and the intercooler, (as opposed to a twin entry cooler), it could have a suction affect, bringing the turbo on quicker again.

...I dunno

[Bl0r]

id say the problem is when you run them independantly into the same system your always going to be restricted by what the supercharger can pump out. you start pumping out more from your turbo, your charger gets a face full of it. if you want to run them together be prepared to cap your boost at the chargers limit.

wlspn:

"This months copy of Redline magazine (yes I know its sh*t but I get it for free) features a S15 with a BEE-R supercharger kit & a turbo. The magazine says that air is fed through the turbo, THEN through the supercharger, which being a mechanic is against everything I have been taught. Make of that what you will.... "

the way im thinking this would work is: no matter which one spins up first, later, faster, whatever, youll never get any back pressure. its straight through setup. the outlets arent merging like a "Y", its just a straight line.

say at 2000rpm the charger will be spinning and doing 5psi and the turbo will be doing 0psi, the charger will add power to the engine and create a vaccum between it and the turbo helping the turbo spool, because at this stage its sucking air through the turbo. when you hit say 4000rpm both are pumping out 10psi or somthing, then its even across the whole system, after this the turbo can keep on spinning up past 10psi which may be the capacity of the charger, the air will blow past your charger instead of back into it.

[unarmed_skyline]

reading what this other guy has done in the link abve he has used the intake into turbo then into charger and the chargger does most the work but it does help the turbo spool quicker by sucking threw as you said,

very interesting read,

i was looking into doing it not like the vw set up where the supercharger turns off when turbo hits boost but that would be rather easy i would think as chargers like the sc14's have an electromagnetic clutch which justs needs 12v to turn the charger of, you could run it off an rmp switch, but this type of sequential set-up has been tried lots of times and lots of people seem to have lots of trouble with it

there was another car that came out factory twincharged the nissan supermach cant find much info on it thou.

[Bl0r]

Do you mean something a bit like what VW have in their new Golf GT?

Supercharger with a clutch, and a turbo. The work independantly, but the supercharger masks the lack of low rpm boost from the turbo, then at around 3500rpm a clutch cuts the SC and the turbo works alone. This avoids the SC draining power at high revs.

............At least I think thats the basic idea behind it.

Dont know how youd get the clutch to work...maybe Mad Max style with a button on ur gear stick, haha

If you had the SC pumping air into a pipe between the turbo and the intercooler, (as opposed to a twin entry cooler), it could have a suction affect, bringing the turbo on quicker again.

...I dunno

hehe yea, dunno how that one works either. you would think there would have a valve in there too to stop pressure leakage after the SC is cut.

[StockyMcStock]

valves and flow path switching are painfully difficult to operate smoothly, and have a few definate drawbacks with respect to engine efficiency. a simple blow-through like i have used easily negates these problems. i still believe it to be the safest, easiest and most efficient method of twincharging - simply because of the pressure discrepancy devoloped at full throttle between intake and exhaust back pressures.

when intake pressure exceeds exhaust back pressure, you get a lot more free power from the engine, and significantly less chance of detonation.