What Cam Should I Get

[jippa3000]

Hi all,

I have an 94 R32 GTR, im getting to used to the power and want a bit of an upgrade. At the mo I have HKS 2530 turbos (i think thats right?) nismo injectors, power fc, full apexi N1 exhaust and it's making around 280awkws.

I thought some new cams may be the way to go just not sure on what grinds I should get, any help with what I should get and what sort of price would be great.

Thanks

[sinistaGTR]

tomei poncams either 256 or 264 deg.. bout 1000 bucks for them

[jippa3000]

Thanks dude, what about install prices?

Cheers

[sinistaGTR]

dunno call your workshop on that lol its not a hard thing to do but the car will need a tune after there installed

[rev210]

The 260 9mm lift units from Tomei are proven to be good on stock heads with no porting. If I were running ported heads I would be inclined to go for shorter duration 256 but, opt for 10mm or so of lift.

Cost is anywhere upwards of $2k installed. You need new gaskets, cam bolts and possibly more shims and of course a re-tune. If you plan on oil pump gear breaking rpm (8,000rpm) then some new valve springs would be a good idea too.

Good thing is you can make the 280rwkw earlier in the rev range and with less boost once fitted.On an original engine don't go after more than the 280rwkw you have already.

[GeeTR]

Rev210,

Bit off topic, do you think cam bolts are really needed, and can you pick em up from anything other then Nissan? I tried ARP, but no luck.

Thanks

[Beer Baron]

tomei make new cam cap bolts (actually I think they are studs).

[Bl4cK32]

old cam bolts have been known to snap once re used. Few cases in the past here on sau of people fitting new cams then one bolt lets go.

Cheap insurance to make sure job will last.

[NYTSKY]

Great now i have to buy cam bolts lol

Where do i get them from Nengun, greenline?

[SimonR32]

tomei cam cap studs are fairly cheap from nengun/greenline

i would go 260 9.15 lift tomei poncams as mentioned a few times

[jippa3000]

Thanks for the feed back all,

also rev210 im already over the 280rwkw mark because that figure is to all four wheels, not sure what it is making to the rears. So do you think I should get some internals done?

[Bl4cK32]

no need. Ive seen std rb25's go up to 321rwkw with good tuning.

Get it tuned nice and safe and enjoy it.

[jippa3000]

Yeah i am having a hard time enjoying it because I am getting a weird shudder from the back left wheel while accellerating, I have had the wheels aligned, new tyres, I can't figure out whats going on. Any ideas?

[GeeTR]

tomei make new cam cap bolts (actually I think they are studs).

As always, thanks a squillion

[rev210]

no need. Ive seen std rb25's go up to 321rwkw with good tuning.

Get it tuned nice and safe and enjoy it.

Here's some good advice, that will save you some money in the long run.

I've seen plenty of RB's with that sort of power last very little time at all on a 'safe tune'. They are suseptible to things like oil surge regardless of the 'tune'. They also don't have suitable rods,rod bolt, pistons etc. for what we would call a motor 'built for 320rwkw'.

The Rb26's in old R32 GTR's have usually done alot more kms than the newer RB25det's and factory stock the GTR motor has been running more power. More power = proportionally more wear , another way of saying a shorter engine life. Death from old age is accellerated by an increase in power of this magnitude.

At the very least, you are better off 'enjoying' the extra power with this understanding and $9k in your bank for the rebuild at the ready. Otherwise if you don't have the money de-tune the motor a tad to avoid misery.

Just trying to help, not trying to be a kill joy.

[Bl4cK32]

I've seen plenty of RB's with that sort of power last very little time at all on a 'safe tune'. They are suseptible to things like oil surge regardless of the 'tune'. They also don't have suitable rods,rod bolt, pistons etc. for what we would call a motor 'built for 320rwkw'.

Also helps to know how the car will be used. Oil surge would be more of a problem a car taken out to the track would see id guess? Same car taken to the track would be driven a lot harder as well...

Car i saw with the 320rwkw wasnt being revved or taken anywhere near its power potential, so there was no need for the uber spec rebuild bottom end. It had the power there yes, but there was no way u could put it all down doing a trip to the local shop for a litre of milk

Track car id be inclined to have a built motor to prevent the problems mentioned.

Edited June 29, 2007 by Bl4cK32

[rev210]

Also helps to know how the car will be used. Oil surge would be more of a problem a car taken out to the track would see id guess? Same car taken to the track would be driven a lot harder as well...

Car i saw with the 320rwkw wasnt being revved or taken anywhere near its power potential, so there was no need for the uber spec rebuild bottom end. It had the power there yes, but there was no way u could put it all down doing a trip to the local shop for a litre of milk

Track car id be inclined to have a built motor to prevent the problems mentioned.

I've lost count of the number of discussions I've had in the last decade with people who contend any number of various makes of engine are 'factory tough' to what are race levels of power.

It is the kind of talk you usually hear from the 'optimistic' young enthusiasts who are deluding themselves into believing performance car ownership is an affordable past time. They say things like ' ..sure having a 300rwkw car is normally expensive but, if you buy a (insert brand and motor type here) then you don't have to rebuild the motor blah blah blah .... the diffs and gearboxes are indestructable blah blah blah...my tyres will last forever and the fuel prices are only going to get cheaper now the George Bush has declared war on Australia..." ---Time to walk away slowly.

320rwkw spec bottom end for street / strip = at very least preped rods (prefferable forged new ones), arp rod bolts, decent bearings (ie: not used high km factory ones), forged pistons (must have) and so on.

320rwkw on an old R32 RB26 engine = time bomb. To think an Rb25 is any different isn't sensible and with 9 to 1 compression and weaker bits on top you find the stock Rb25's running this power go 'pop' eventually.

At that power level you are talking a couple minutes of total time spent at 320rwkw. Go to the shop for milk, no problems. Give it a kick in the guts once on the way you can take a few seconds off the few minutes or so it has left (if you are lucky)

Poped Rb25's are a common phenomina on this forum at power levels over 230rwkw, they aren't a bad motor and it's not the tuners fault. It's just the way they are driven, which is usually the owners personal satisfaction , to 'enjoy' 320rwkw. Tick tock.... rebuild.

[rev210]

this old thread is worth a read about the old used RB's stock strength or lack of it.

[Bl4cK32]

Im not starting an argument here, just claifying a few things.

I've lost count of the number of discussions I've had in the last decade with people who contend any number of various makes of engine are 'factory tough' to what are race levels of power.

It is the kind of talk you usually hear from the 'optimistic' young enthusiasts who are deluding themselves into believing performance car ownership is an affordable past time. They say things like ' ..sure having a 300rwkw car is normally expensive but, if you buy a (insert brand and motor type here) then you don't have to rebuild the motor blah blah blah .... the diffs and gearboxes are indestructable blah blah blah...my tyres will last forever and the fuel prices are only going to get cheaper now the George Bush has declared war on Australia..." ---Time to walk away slowly.

I never said that. I simply explained (not clearly) ive seen (an extreme power case) of a car that has been tuned safely and it did not have a rebuilt bottom end and was a stable package for the street. Car stated simply had a different head gasket fitted to lower the CR which was one of the reasons it was a reliable package.

320rwkw spec bottom end for street / strip = at very least preped rods (prefferable forged new ones), arp rod bolts, decent bearings (ie: not used high km factory ones), forged pistons (must have) and so on.

320rwkw is overkill for the street and shouldnt need all spanker motor anyways. For a track car i agree with the rest of what u listed.

320rwkw on an old R32 RB26 engine = time bomb. To think an Rb25 is any different isn't sensible and with 9 to 1 compression and weaker bits on top you find the stock Rb25's running this power go 'pop' eventually.

At that power level you are talking a couple minutes of total time spent at 320rwkw. Go to the shop for milk, no problems. Give it a kick in the guts once on the way you can take a few seconds off the few minutes or so it has left (if you are lucky)

If u asked i could have told u that the car in question had a headgasket fitted that lowered the CR to decrease the chance of blowing a piston, and lasted a long time (car in question was sold a long while later still running)

I believe the OP never posted his power goals, or what he uses the car for. Please read i was just referring to a car i know of that was a street car that was reliable because of the setup it had / how it was tuned and it had a responsible driver

Poped Rb25's are a common phenomina on this forum at power levels over 230rwkw, they aren't a bad motor and it's not the tuners fault. It's just the way they are driven, which is usually the owners personal satisfaction , to 'enjoy' 320rwkw. Tick tock.... rebuild.

Im sorry, but i refuse to believe this completely. How can a tune not effect at least in some part how long a motor can last?

A good tuner here in Adelaide and is well known in the SA section tunes cars for a safe power level, not to squeeze out every last KW and get a high number to impress the owners friends. Its a known fact he has never had a car motor blow on ANY car he tunes (i will stand behind this as will all of the SA mob who gets their car tuned) but there are other shops in Adelaide with tuners who have motors get higher numbers, tuned to a higher degree and go bang. Known fact.

Sure it probably had some part in both parties in why the motor blew, but at the end of the day the first tuner has never had a motor blow, and i know some of the guys who use him give their cars a bit of stick, with their power lvls not being extreme either. Just safe tunes. There are a few however who have the uber motors in SA and their cars have been fine for a long time now.

[rev210]

Im not starting an argument here, just claifying a few things.

I never said that. I simply explained (not clearly) ive seen (an extreme power case) of a car that has been tuned safely and it did not have a rebuilt bottom end and was a stable package for the street. Car stated simply had a different head gasket fitted to lower the CR which was one of the reasons it was a reliable package.

320rwkw is overkill for the street and shouldnt need all spanker motor anyways. For a track car i agree with the rest of what u listed.

If u asked i could have told u that the car in question had a headgasket fitted that lowered the CR to decrease the chance of blowing a piston, and lasted a long time (car in question was sold a long while later still running)

I believe the OP never posted his power goals, or what he uses the car for. Please read i was just referring to a car i know of that was a street car that was reliable because of the setup it had / how it was tuned and it had a responsible driver

Im sorry, but i refuse to believe this completely. How can a tune not effect at least in some part how long a motor can last?

A good tuner here in Adelaide and is well known in the SA section tunes cars for a safe power level, not to squeeze out every last KW and get a high number to impress the owners friends. Its a known fact he has never had a car motor blow on ANY car he tunes (i will stand behind this as will all of the SA mob who gets their car tuned) but there are other shops in Adelaide with tuners who have motors get higher numbers, tuned to a higher degree and go bang. Known fact.

Sure it probably had some part in both parties in why the motor blew, but at the end of the day the first tuner has never had a motor blow, and i know some of the guys who use him give their cars a bit of stick, with their power lvls not being extreme either. Just safe tunes. There are a few however who have the uber motors in SA and their cars have been fine for a long time now.

wasn't going an argument with you mate, just posting my 2c

to clarify the statement about popped RB's I should say that what I meant was to exceede a certain power level will bring the engine to an early natural death regardless of it having a 'safe tune'. A tune may be 'safe' in the sense of AFR & timing but, if you throw down enough rpm/heat/power you break the weakest link in the equation and where you don't break it right away you wear it out very very fast. If it's already worn then you get even less time to enjoy the power.

As the old phrase goes ; Cheap . Powerful . Reliable . Pick two.