Show Me Your Racing Machines

[sav man]

just found the perfect car for track days

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/1994-Benetton-Forme...#ht_1410wt_1167

[juggernaut1]

Ahhhh ok, that's what may not have occurred, causing my issues.

Do you get much blow by? Mine blew the dipstick out on the dyno, hence why we were considering new rings. It may have been the slightly scored bore though. I'm just considering all options as I want it to stay together this time!

Each machinist and engine builder has there own way of doing things - this is how mine was done. I inspected the sleeve intallation before the head went on as I also wanted to see that the sleeves also butted up against each other too. I've seen some engine builders leave a gap between the sleeves which is a recipe for disaster as they are destined to move under combustion pressures.

No blow by that was obvious and nothing in the catch cans - dipstick certainly never blew out.

Unfortunatley sleeved SR's seem to strike more problems than they should.

Edited November 12, 2009 by juggernaut1

[phunky_monkey]

Thanks for the feedback Ian. We were wondering if the dipstick issue was a result of removing the stock pcv setup, so it may not be the piston rings/slightly scored bore entirely causing the issues.

The engine builders did mention that this is a specific alloy block/sleeve issue which they don't see on iron blocks. But still better than a boat anchor up front I suppose

[32TAXI]

Dipstick - lock with wire

Edited November 12, 2009 by RED513

[badhairdave]

Wire should not be needed until you have a 250k old rb20 thats been flogged near to death.

Thanks for the feedback Ian. We were wondering if the dipstick issue was a result of removing the stock pcv setup, so it may not be the piston rings/slightly scored bore entirely causing the issues.

The engine builders did mention that this is a specific alloy block/sleeve issue which they don't see on iron blocks. But still better than a boat anchor up front I suppose

The dipstick issue has nothing to do with your breather setup. You've plumbed it up as you would a normal open to atmo catch can on the normal breathers so it isn't seeing pressurised air at all.

I think your engine builder has some serious questions to answer. I'd certainly want a proper answer and admission of some accountability if it were my engine.

Scored bore? What caused that?

[_Ryan_]

I ran a sleeved/spacered motor without issue. PM'd you the mechanics details. i miss that car

[phunky_monkey]

Agreed in regards to the dipstick. I want it fixed rather than bandaged. My stock motor didn't ever do it, so I don't expect this motor to do it.

Dave, I'm certainly not impressed with the current situation and won't be paying for any work to be done. I'm just glad I decided to have everything done 'in house' (not under one roof, but associates) otherwise this would have been even more of a nightmare.

As for the bore, apparently it is due to the water in the oil causing it to be abrasive and score it slightly.

Ryan: Thanks mate, replying now.

[32TAXI]

Agreed - fix rather than bandage - but beats a fire and oil everywhere!

I build all my own motors/boxes/diffs/suspension - only one person to blame!

Been together nearly 5 years - time for check - esp after seeing over 100'c last weekend!

Edited November 12, 2009 by RED513

[phunky_monkey]

You're right about that!

5 years is great stuff, I'd love to have that sort of longevity eventually, not holding my breath though

[SRS13]

Mate you do have some very bad luck.

Turns me off building a motor!

A friend is sleeving his 2.2ltr that Unigroup is building. I'm sure Yavuz would be aware of this but I'll be sure to mention it anyway.

I cant wait to hear how your car goes, I can imagine how you must feel.

It will all come good and then you would have forgotten about it.

[phunky_monkey]

Yeah I think it may be time for Marvin the Martian to go from my rear view mirror. He's not beinging me the luck anymore that's for sure!

Funny thing is I was always worried about building a motor for this exact reason, but stock SR's are getting too long in the tooth and thought I'd have to bite the bullet one day, it's just a shame it hasn't gone as smoothly as I would have hoped.

Thanks for the kind words, the support is appreciated

[Roy]

Well, finally some parts turned up at the right price so i finally get to prove to all the non-believers that a built RB20 will spank any SR20 (LOL, or so goes the theory)

[badhairdave]

why are you building it? Just get a bigger turbo, jam more boost into it and keep the timing safe and it'll make 300+, rev to 8k and last forever.

[Roy]

LOL, thats the plan and why i have the TD06-25G and Plazmaman inlet I will get it tuned based on the lie that its a built, fresh engine and can take it...where the power stops is what i run at the track and see how long it lasts. In the meanwhile the "RB20 or extraordinary magnitude" will be waiting in the wings

[phunky_monkey]

What else is going in Troy?

Just found out my gearbox requires a mild rebuild too, balls! I think I'm going to go sit in a corner and rock myself to sleep

[badhairdave]

If my car wasn't so loud the bearing noise from the box would worry me....

Whats a mild rebuild? If it still goes into gear i would say it's fully functional

[GTRNUR]

Thanks for the feedback Ian. We were wondering if the dipstick issue was a result of removing the stock pcv setup, so it may not be the piston rings/slightly scored bore entirely causing the issues.

The engine builders did mention that this is a specific alloy block/sleeve issue which they don't see on iron blocks. But still better than a boat anchor up front I suppose

It would be nice to know what interference fit they used when pressing the sleeves into the block. With an alloy block it should be at least 0.005" measured at room temperature. And the sleeves should be shrunk fit, or the block heated to allow them to be pressed in. For the alloy block to have expanded enough as it got up to temp for the sleeves to move the fitment is probably about 0.002" or less.

Ive had loctite 640 sleeve retainer used on the sleeves as they are being pressed in on my block, to help with sealing but also to eliminate movement. A combination of this and partial grout filling may work, but its really just a bandaid solution. If one sleeve has moved chances are that all of them arent machined to the right tolerances, and they will all need to be pulled and replaced with a slightly over-size sleeve. Starting again with a new block would be the best way to go.

[Roy]

What else is going in Troy?

Just found out my gearbox requires a mild rebuild too, balls! I think I'm going to go sit in a corner and rock myself to sleep

Gearbox? Fark Dane....

It will be an RB20, just with stronger internals and more compression and perhaps cams. Can make the power i want from teh 20, bigger displacement just gives me tyre frying torque which is no good to me. Hope it never goes in as i much prefer the comfort of running a std motor at the track

[phunky_monkey]

If my car wasn't so loud the bearing noise from the box would worry me....

Whats a mild rebuild? If it still goes into gear i would say it's fully functional

Yeah it still works fine, but after Winton it became a little noisy. It won;t self-locate in neutral though so feels like an old datto 1600 box which I hate. But bearings are being replaced, second gear synchro is wrong (???!!) and there have been some metal filings from the thing that connects to the tailshaft yoke go through the box. It has an OS 1-3 set in it so I don't want to risk damaging them as the gearbox guys says they're perfect.

Troy: Standard RB20 is the go! Tough as nails and cheap as chips is a winning combo imo.

GTRBUR: Thanks for the info mate. I doubt they'll start from scratch on a new block, so we'll see what their solution is. The sleeving was $1800 in labour so I don't think they'll want to be doing that again in a hurry, but I'll let you know what they decide to do as I'd like to have a second opinion as engine building is not my forte.

[R32gts-t]

dane: keep at it, it can only improve, I remember you telling me why you were having it all done in house, seems like that was a very good decision.

if you do get tired of it, i think i found the perfect solution...

perfection:

http://www.my105.com.au/classified.asp?id=13865&latest=1