Rb20det Ping?

[abu]

Hey

I recently picked up my car up, as it just arrived from Japan.

Its a R32 with a RB20DET, and has about 124,000 km's.

Cat back 3" exhaust, and APEXi Power-Intake would be the only 2 engine modifications I could think of.

First day I picked it up, Monday, on the way home it was pining. Filled some good fuel in it and was still pinging.

Would ping in 1st on boost no matter how much throttle you gave it. Would be OK in 2nd gear until about 4500-5000 RPM, depending how much load, and anything after that it would ping, same in 3rd etc.. but above 4500 RPM.

-Checked the boost, was fine, running 10psi as standard should.

-Did a compression test, pulled up good, as I expected.

-Checked the plugs, they were fine but they were really dry and showed signs that they had been running lean.

-Checked the FPR was fine, then I narrowed it down to the fuel pump wasn't supplying enough fuel up at about 5000 RPM + hence the ping.

So me and my cousin put in the R32 GTR fuel pump in that I had, and gave it another shot.

A lot more fuel pressure this time, and no ping in 1st, but at the top of 2nd it pings, and occasionally in 3rd at high RPM.

What could be the cause of it now? Its pretty much stock, just has a GTR pump, CAT back 3" and APEXi Pod.. no reason for a stock RB20 to ping.

I put my APEXi EL2 boost meter in today and re-checked the boost, but its fine, 10psi as standard.

Was driving alright during the day when I was checking boost, occasional ping in 3rd under load but thats it..

I put my TEIN's in a few hours ago and took it for another drive and it pinged up in 2nd gear, high revs..

Got me confused, can any one suggest what it may be, or what the cause may be?

Will be doing a full service this weekend, just don't have time during the week, but the oil level and oil it self is good, plugs are fine, fuel is high octane stuff.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Abu

Edited August 9, 2007 by abu

[R34GTFOUR]

Hey

I recently picked up my car up, as it just arrived from Japan.

Its a R32 with a RB20DET, and has about 124,000 km's.

Cat back 3" exhaust, and APEXi Power-Intake would be the only 2 engine modifications I could think of.

First day I picked it up, Monday, on the way home it was pining. Filled some good fuel in it and was still pinging.

Would ping in 1st on boost no matter how much throttle you gave it. Would be OK in 2nd gear until about 4500-5000 RPM, depending how much load, and anything after that it would ping, same in 3rd etc.. but above 4500 RPM.

-Checked the boost, was fine, running 10psi as standard should.

-Did a compression test, pulled up good, as I expected.

-Checked the plugs, they were fine but they were really dry and showed signs that they had been running lean.

-Checked the FPR was fine, then I narrowed it down to the fuel pump wasn't supplying enough fuel up at about 5000 RPM + hence the ping.

So me and my cousin put in the R32 GTR fuel pump in that I had, and gave it another shot.

A lot more fuel pressure this time, and no ping in 1st, but at the top of 2nd it pings, and occasionally in 3rd at high RPM.

What could be the cause of it now? Its pretty much stock, just has a GTR pump, CAT back 3" and APEXi Pod.. no reason for a stock RB20 to ping.

I put my APEXi EL2 boost meter in today and re-checked the boost, but its fine, 10psi as standard.

Was driving alright during the day when I was checking boost, occasional ping in 3rd under load but thats it..

I put my TEIN's in a few hours ago and took it for another drive and it pinged up in 2nd gear, high revs..

Got me confused, can any one suggest what it may be, or what the cause may be?

Will be doing a full service this weekend, just don't have time during the week, but the oil level and oil it self is good, plugs are fine, fuel is high octane stuff.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Abu

Does it look like the cas has been advanced? Loosen the 3 bolts that hold it to the timing belt cover and turn it anticlock wise, this will retard the timing, then tighten the bolts back up and take it for a drive, it might feel slightly slower, but thats if you notice any difference at all. If the stops the pinging then maybe the timing has been advanced too much, and just adjust the timing so its advanced as far as possible before it starts to ping.

Edited August 7, 2007 by R34GTFOUR

[abu]

Does it look like the cas has been advanced? Loosen the 3 bolts that hold it to the timing belt cover and turn it anticlock wise, this will retard the timing, then tighten the bolts back up and take it for a drive, it might feel slightly slower, but thats if you notice any difference at all. If the stops the pinging then maybe the timing has been advanced too much, and just adjust the timing so its advanced as far as possible before it starts to ping.

Hey

Sorry, forgot to mention that.

After we did the compression test and checked the plugs we also checked the timing. There are 6 marks for the timing, and it is on the center mark, so assuming it is set correctly?

There is also a mark on the CAM cover and on the CAS which lines up straight. I am assuming they used that in Japan to make sure the timing was set correctly?..

Thanks,

Abu

Edited August 7, 2007 by abu

[RB120WHY]

Get it on a dyno...

I'm now rebuilding a motor because of detonation

[Haysey]

sounds like it could be coil packs to me..... high rpm and load could cause it to miss sounding like ping...

[CEF11E]

Hey Abu,

Firstly replace the fuel filter just to be sure it is not blocked.

Have a loot at your AFM and check it is on good nick. you also might want to pull the intercooler off and check that it isnt full of oil.

Also take your ECU out and have a look and make sure it has not been chipped and you are running a jap tuned .rom Most of the jap tuned roms i have seen run ridiculous timing.

Cheers

[abu]

Get it on a dyno...

I'm now rebuilding a motor because of detonation

Hey

Yeah it is pretty bad isn't it!

You have to be really careful when it comes to ping. I have been taking it very easy when driving it, any sign of detonation and I back right off.

Recently my cousins R33 (TAXI33 on the forums) dropped cylinder 5 due to pinging, just the thought of it makes me not want to drive my car until its 100%.

Thanks,

Abu

sounds like it could be coil packs to me..... high rpm and load could cause it to miss sounding like ping...

Hey

The only reason I suspect that it isn't ignition related, and fuel related is due to the fuel pump change. If it was ignition related or spark related for that matter, if I changed the fuel pump I don't think the ping would have been reduced.. but thats my opinion!

Like, with the new fuel pump ping was significantly reduced to the point where I could put my foot down down 2nd.

But now, maybe your right, it could be the coil packs.

Would it be just 1 coil pack, or the whole 6?

Thanks for your help, almost forgot about the coil packs.

Thanks,

Abu

Hey Abu,

Firstly replace the fuel filter just to be sure it is not blocked.

Have a loot at your AFM and check it is on good nick. you also might want to pull the intercooler off and check that it isnt full of oil.

Also take your ECU out and have a look and make sure it has not been chipped and you are running a jap tuned .rom Most of the jap tuned roms i have seen run ridiculous timing.

Cheers

Hey man

Ah these crazy Japs lol

Will pull the ECU out and take a look today, might skip work hehe

Yeah fuel filter I was planning on replacing this weekend once I do the service, I was also thinking it could be that! easy fix if it is

Thanks for the other points, will check AFM also, anything specific I should look for to show signs or age/wear? Or just give it a clean if its dirty and put it back in?

Its just running stock intercooler at the moment, bit awkward to get in there, but I will try my best to take a look.

Appreciate the help man, thanks.

Abu

Edited August 8, 2007 by abu

[abu]

Okay problem solved, and it was an unusual one.

Like I said, when I got the car it was running a standard R32 GTST fuel pump, and what I thought the problem was, it was leaning out up top (5000rpm + ), due to not receiving sufficient fuel.

To me it sounded like the fuel pump was tired so in went the GTR pump.

All was good, but still detonated under certain loads, so obviously there was still an issue.

Everything else was fine, except the variance in idle, 100 - 200rpm. Quiet odd as it should idle at one consistent RPM, checked the all vac lines, everything was fine.

Re-checked timing, and plugs, all is fine..

Been smelling fuel in the back of the car, nothing much just vapors which was still fairly odd. After a quick drive today I noticed a few drops of fuel under the car, so I opened up the boot and checked the pump cradle where the 2 lines connect to (fuel feed & return) and one of the hoses where split (return).

Problem was:

GTR pump had more pressure so took care of the detonation slightly, but it was still there. It supplies more fuel at a higher pressure obviously to the standard pump, but still detonated a little as there was a split in the fuel return line, and was getting bigger..

The split in the fuel return line was releasing pressure slowly, so less pressure in the fuel rail. Hence the fuel smell in the cabin and the detonation up in the high rev range.

Over time the fuel return line gave in and fuel began to leak out.

Replaced the fuel feed and return with 2 new hoses, and surprisingly idle is mint, doesn't step out a beat, and no more detonation!!

Simple problem, but took some time to work out. Thanks to those who replied to help, much appreciated.

Thanks

Abu

Edited August 9, 2007 by abu

[robots]

Hehe u are lucky u didn't get it on fire Be carefull.

[Adriano]

Dont see how a split fuel return hose could ause pinging, but if its fixed, all good.

[abu]

Dont see how a split fuel return hose could ause pinging, but if its fixed, all good.

Are you serious?

If the engine doesn't get enough fuel, and your giving it throttle.. its going to get more air than fuel? Therefor it leans out.. causing detonation.

It wasn't holding enough fuel pressure in the fuel rail as the return fuel line was leaking pressure, meaning the injectors weren't pushing in enough fuel like they should been into the cylinders and the air/fuel ratio was all wrong..

If AFR's are wrong, you run the high risk of detonation/ping.

Driving it off boost was alright, but would have been running more on the lean side, thats why up top when you gave it boost there just wasn't enough fuel to keep it running safe.. so it would detonate.

Thanks,

Abu

[B0oStEr]

Are you serious?

If the engine doesn't get enough fuel, and your giving it throttle.. its going to get more air than fuel? Therefor it leans out.. causing detonation.

It wasn't holding enough fuel pressure in the fuel rail as the return fuel line was leaking pressure, meaning the injectors weren't pushing in enough fuel like they should been into the cylinders and the air/fuel ratio was all wrong..

If AFR's are wrong, you run the high risk of detonation/ping.

Driving it off boost was alright, but would have been running more on the lean side, thats why up top when you gave it boost there just wasn't enough fuel to keep it running safe.. so it would detonate.

Thanks,

Abu

Adriano is right.

The return line just returns unused fuel from the FPR to the tank.

It's the FPR's job to maintain fuel pressure.

If the return line is leaking it won't cause a drop in rail pressure so it shouldn't cause pinging.

Now if the feed line was leaking that would be a problem.