Jump to content
SAU Community

Recommended Posts

Hey

I recently picked up my car up, as it just arrived from Japan.

Its a R32 with a RB20DET, and has about 124,000 km's.

Cat back 3" exhaust, and APEXi Power-Intake would be the only 2 engine modifications I could think of.

First day I picked it up, Monday, on the way home it was pining. Filled some good fuel in it and was still pinging.

Would ping in 1st on boost no matter how much throttle you gave it. Would be OK in 2nd gear until about 4500-5000 RPM, depending how much load, and anything after that it would ping, same in 3rd etc.. but above 4500 RPM.

-Checked the boost, was fine, running 10psi as standard should.

-Did a compression test, pulled up good, as I expected.

-Checked the plugs, they were fine but they were really dry and showed signs that they had been running lean.

-Checked the FPR was fine, then I narrowed it down to the fuel pump wasn't supplying enough fuel up at about 5000 RPM + hence the ping.

So me and my cousin put in the R32 GTR fuel pump in that I had, and gave it another shot.

A lot more fuel pressure this time, and no ping in 1st, but at the top of 2nd it pings, and occasionally in 3rd at high RPM.

What could be the cause of it now? Its pretty much stock, just has a GTR pump, CAT back 3" and APEXi Pod.. no reason for a stock RB20 to ping.

I put my APEXi EL2 boost meter in today and re-checked the boost, but its fine, 10psi as standard.

Was driving alright during the day when I was checking boost, occasional ping in 3rd under load but thats it..

I put my TEIN's in a few hours ago and took it for another drive and it pinged up in 2nd gear, high revs..

Got me confused, can any one suggest what it may be, or what the cause may be?

Will be doing a full service this weekend, just don't have time during the week, but the oil level and oil it self is good, plugs are fine, fuel is high octane stuff.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance :(

Abu

Edited by abu
Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/179971-rb20det-ping/
Share on other sites

Hey

I recently picked up my car up, as it just arrived from Japan.

Its a R32 with a RB20DET, and has about 124,000 km's.

Cat back 3" exhaust, and APEXi Power-Intake would be the only 2 engine modifications I could think of.

First day I picked it up, Monday, on the way home it was pining. Filled some good fuel in it and was still pinging.

Would ping in 1st on boost no matter how much throttle you gave it. Would be OK in 2nd gear until about 4500-5000 RPM, depending how much load, and anything after that it would ping, same in 3rd etc.. but above 4500 RPM.

-Checked the boost, was fine, running 10psi as standard should.

-Did a compression test, pulled up good, as I expected.

-Checked the plugs, they were fine but they were really dry and showed signs that they had been running lean.

-Checked the FPR was fine, then I narrowed it down to the fuel pump wasn't supplying enough fuel up at about 5000 RPM + hence the ping.

So me and my cousin put in the R32 GTR fuel pump in that I had, and gave it another shot.

A lot more fuel pressure this time, and no ping in 1st, but at the top of 2nd it pings, and occasionally in 3rd at high RPM.

What could be the cause of it now? Its pretty much stock, just has a GTR pump, CAT back 3" and APEXi Pod.. no reason for a stock RB20 to ping.

I put my APEXi EL2 boost meter in today and re-checked the boost, but its fine, 10psi as standard.

Was driving alright during the day when I was checking boost, occasional ping in 3rd under load but thats it..

I put my TEIN's in a few hours ago and took it for another drive and it pinged up in 2nd gear, high revs..

Got me confused, can any one suggest what it may be, or what the cause may be?

Will be doing a full service this weekend, just don't have time during the week, but the oil level and oil it self is good, plugs are fine, fuel is high octane stuff.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance :P

Abu

Does it look like the cas has been advanced? Loosen the 3 bolts that hold it to the timing belt cover and turn it anticlock wise, this will retard the timing, then tighten the bolts back up and take it for a drive, it might feel slightly slower, but thats if you notice any difference at all. If the stops the pinging then maybe the timing has been advanced too much, and just adjust the timing so its advanced as far as possible before it starts to ping.

Edited by R34GTFOUR
Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/179971-rb20det-ping/#findComment-3275003
Share on other sites

Does it look like the cas has been advanced? Loosen the 3 bolts that hold it to the timing belt cover and turn it anticlock wise, this will retard the timing, then tighten the bolts back up and take it for a drive, it might feel slightly slower, but thats if you notice any difference at all. If the stops the pinging then maybe the timing has been advanced too much, and just adjust the timing so its advanced as far as possible before it starts to ping.

Hey

Sorry, forgot to mention that.

After we did the compression test and checked the plugs we also checked the timing. There are 6 marks for the timing, and it is on the center mark, so assuming it is set correctly?

There is also a mark on the CAM cover and on the CAS which lines up straight. I am assuming they used that in Japan to make sure the timing was set correctly?..

Thanks,

Abu

Edited by abu
Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/179971-rb20det-ping/#findComment-3275022
Share on other sites

Hey Abu,

Firstly replace the fuel filter just to be sure it is not blocked.

Have a loot at your AFM and check it is on good nick. you also might want to pull the intercooler off and check that it isnt full of oil.

Also take your ECU out and have a look and make sure it has not been chipped and you are running a jap tuned .rom Most of the jap tuned roms i have seen run ridiculous timing.

Cheers :P

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/179971-rb20det-ping/#findComment-3275327
Share on other sites

Get it on a dyno...

I'm now rebuilding a motor because of detonation

Hey

Yeah it is pretty bad isn't it!

You have to be really careful when it comes to ping. I have been taking it very easy when driving it, any sign of detonation and I back right off.

Recently my cousins R33 (TAXI33 on the forums) dropped cylinder 5 due to pinging, just the thought of it makes me not want to drive my car until its 100%.

Thanks,

Abu

sounds like it could be coil packs to me..... high rpm and load could cause it to miss sounding like ping...

Hey

The only reason I suspect that it isn't ignition related, and fuel related is due to the fuel pump change. If it was ignition related or spark related for that matter, if I changed the fuel pump I don't think the ping would have been reduced.. but thats my opinion!

Like, with the new fuel pump ping was significantly reduced to the point where I could put my foot down down 2nd.

But now, maybe your right, it could be the coil packs.

Would it be just 1 coil pack, or the whole 6?

Thanks for your help, almost forgot about the coil packs.

Thanks,

Abu

Hey Abu,

Firstly replace the fuel filter just to be sure it is not blocked.

Have a loot at your AFM and check it is on good nick. you also might want to pull the intercooler off and check that it isnt full of oil.

Also take your ECU out and have a look and make sure it has not been chipped and you are running a jap tuned .rom Most of the jap tuned roms i have seen run ridiculous timing.

Cheers :P

Hey man

Ah these crazy Japs lol

Will pull the ECU out and take a look today, might skip work hehe

Yeah fuel filter I was planning on replacing this weekend once I do the service, I was also thinking it could be that! easy fix if it is :(

Thanks for the other points, will check AFM also, anything specific I should look for to show signs or age/wear? Or just give it a clean if its dirty and put it back in?

Its just running stock intercooler at the moment, bit awkward to get in there, but I will try my best to take a look.

Appreciate the help man, thanks.

Abu

Edited by abu
Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/179971-rb20det-ping/#findComment-3275427
Share on other sites

Okay problem solved, and it was an unusual one.

Like I said, when I got the car it was running a standard R32 GTST fuel pump, and what I thought the problem was, it was leaning out up top (5000rpm + ), due to not receiving sufficient fuel.

To me it sounded like the fuel pump was tired so in went the GTR pump.

All was good, but still detonated under certain loads, so obviously there was still an issue.

Everything else was fine, except the variance in idle, 100 - 200rpm. Quiet odd as it should idle at one consistent RPM, checked the all vac lines, everything was fine.

Re-checked timing, and plugs, all is fine..

Been smelling fuel in the back of the car, nothing much just vapors which was still fairly odd. After a quick drive today I noticed a few drops of fuel under the car, so I opened up the boot and checked the pump cradle where the 2 lines connect to (fuel feed & return) and one of the hoses where split (return).

Problem was:

GTR pump had more pressure so took care of the detonation slightly, but it was still there. It supplies more fuel at a higher pressure obviously to the standard pump, but still detonated a little as there was a split in the fuel return line, and was getting bigger..

The split in the fuel return line was releasing pressure slowly, so less pressure in the fuel rail. Hence the fuel smell in the cabin and the detonation up in the high rev range.

Over time the fuel return line gave in and fuel began to leak out.

Replaced the fuel feed and return with 2 new hoses, and surprisingly idle is mint, doesn't step out a beat, and no more detonation!!

Simple problem, but took some time to work out. Thanks to those who replied to help, much appreciated.

Thanks :nyaanyaa:

Abu

Edited by abu
Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/179971-rb20det-ping/#findComment-3279131
Share on other sites

Dont see how a split fuel return hose could ause pinging, but if its fixed, all good.

Are you serious?

If the engine doesn't get enough fuel, and your giving it throttle.. its going to get more air than fuel? Therefor it leans out.. causing detonation.

It wasn't holding enough fuel pressure in the fuel rail as the return fuel line was leaking pressure, meaning the injectors weren't pushing in enough fuel like they should been into the cylinders and the air/fuel ratio was all wrong..

If AFR's are wrong, you run the high risk of detonation/ping.

Driving it off boost was alright, but would have been running more on the lean side, thats why up top when you gave it boost there just wasn't enough fuel to keep it running safe.. so it would detonate.

Thanks,

Abu

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/179971-rb20det-ping/#findComment-3279684
Share on other sites

Are you serious?

If the engine doesn't get enough fuel, and your giving it throttle.. its going to get more air than fuel? Therefor it leans out.. causing detonation.

It wasn't holding enough fuel pressure in the fuel rail as the return fuel line was leaking pressure, meaning the injectors weren't pushing in enough fuel like they should been into the cylinders and the air/fuel ratio was all wrong..

If AFR's are wrong, you run the high risk of detonation/ping.

Driving it off boost was alright, but would have been running more on the lean side, thats why up top when you gave it boost there just wasn't enough fuel to keep it running safe.. so it would detonate.

Thanks,

Abu

Adriano is right.

The return line just returns unused fuel from the FPR to the tank.

It's the FPR's job to maintain fuel pressure.

If the return line is leaking it won't cause a drop in rail pressure so it shouldn't cause pinging.

Now if the feed line was leaking that would be a problem.

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/179971-rb20det-ping/#findComment-3280071
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Similar Content

  • Latest Posts

    • Yuck. But it's kinda the same principle, moving timing around to make car run bad but sound good.... I went for a more spirited tuning drive to iron out a few things. Car no longer stalls, and it loved to dip RPM low when you clutch in. After tuning this (and the 4-5 tables that HPTuners/LS1 OEM ECU wants for idle air correction) it's now behaving somewhat normal. All expected because there's a new TB, new Intake manifold and that new TB which is 102mm vs 78... has an entirely different IAC passage which is smaller because ????? Unfortunately at this point I went to make further fine tuning changes to avoid it flaring up, you know... _tuning_ the HPTuners dongle died. Well to be more accurate - The USB cable died in a fashion that anyone who has ever charged a phone will recognize. After the app demanding I resync it 50 or so times (which all 'succeeded' but all failed) the device does not want to sync and I've logged a ticket with support to see if it's fixable. US Support said it was a 'storage issue' but after removing the SD card inside it and formatting it/fixing it the issue does persist. Unfortunately usually the fix is "Turn in your old dongle and pay $700 for the upgraded one" it's cheaper because I get some free licence credits I unfortunately don't need. However I'm 10 minutes down the road from HP Tuners AUS/VCM so at least I won't need to post it, and logged a new ticket for support over here. Definitely drives different. My SOTP dyno believes it's probably making 310-320kw instead of the 280 before.  It scrambles for traction a little now whereas it previously different. It drives like a bigger cam car up top even though the cam is smaller, likely due to the cam not being advanced 6 degrees. The timing is deliberately low and the fuel is very rich so who knows if this will improve on the dyno. It may, imperceptably. Also funny is removing the pineapples definitely makes the car squat more and axle tramp less. So this behavior of having more top end, squatting more, and scrabbling for traction more makes me think = more power. But I could have just been sitting on the threshold of that kind of behavior before. Time will tell if my butt dyno is calibrated right. I need the exhaust leaks fixed before dyno tune for obvious AFR related reasons - I repositioned the pipes but I'm not confident it's fully sealed even if it is better. At least the car does drive around while I cannot tweak/tune it for now. And I have aircon again. medium success!
    • Don't use that manifold. Please don't use that manifold. Sunk cost fallacy is not worth the later pain. None of these will be relevant to the change that will come from the different turbo and manifold. As in, the effect of the exhaust will be nil, regardless of what else is changed. And all the cam and fuel system stuff is not changing either way, so has no effect. The turbo and manifold (and to a small extent the wastegate)....big change.
    • Just wanted to say thank you for your input   my man (lead mechanic by trade) and I have done a heap of work as you can imagine just to make the hot side work with the dump pipe, stupid massive intake on turbo, trying to get the waste gate on was not fun.  I’m kinda getting to the point where I don’t know if I try and make this work and not throw all this cash and time away or do I scrap the lot and start again? the Apexi I’ve got was tuned for a few slight differences:   Tomei pon cams (mine are stock neo) Turbo smart 38mm external waste gate (mines 45mm replumbed) with stainless screamer pipe  3inch turbo back exhaust with high flow cat Sard 800cc top feed injectors Sard adjustable fuel pressure reg    
    • Out here E90s are the cheapest way into a sporty-ish car because everyone knows just how expensive the repairs can get. 8-10k USD for an automatic 335i. 
×
×
  • Create New...