Vicroads To Follow Rta And Ban P Platers Driving Fi Cars

[scathing]

VicRoads is Following the RTA's example and banning FI Cars for P platers. Unsurprisingly, the prestige European brands that build so shyte they're struggle to make 100hp/L, even with forced induction.

PRESTIGE car makers are preparing to approach the Victorian Government in a bid to relax the recently introduced P-plate driver engine restrictions.

Mercedes-Benz, Audi and Saab have all expressed concern and frustration at the manner in which the Government has introduced blanket bans on forced-induction engines, with minimal exceptions like the 600cc Smart cars and turbo-diesels.

"Initial discussions with VicRoads have been completely unsatisfactory," said Horst van Sanden, managing director of Mercedes-Benz in Australia.

"These regulations are ill-conceived and incomplete and they send a message to the community that road safety will henceforth be governed with an ad hoc approach."

Roads minister Tim Pallas continued to reflect the old attitude towards forced-induction engines when asked about the possibility of exemptions. He sees them all as "high-powered".

The full article is located here.

That last paragraph I quoted is my favourite. Yes, a 135kW C Class Mercedes (that power is well up from the 120kW it used to be) in a 1.5 ton car is "high powered".

And this guy is the Roads minister in Victoria. I always knew being ignorant of a field was the best way to obtain its political portfolio, but it seems even basic physics is beyond the dropkick.

[heslo]

Saw this coming and I bet it won't be long before the adapt the same stupid idea in my home state of SA

[LBR33]

I can see a ban on anything over 1.5lts soon as we all know anything over that is highpowered

[Spunky Munky]

FFS... seriously... arrh....

Driving our Skylines around is getting so hard.... specially when you're on your P's....

[scathing]

I can see a ban on anything over 1.5lts soon as we all know anything over that is highpowered

Probably not. I doubt that Fords and Holdens, who call Melbourne their home town, will ever get their locally made products completely banned. Its OK to ban V8s as they're not "Howard Battler" cars.

Funny how a 180kW entry model Commodore, with its dearth of safety features, is just fine for P platers but an enty model C Class Merc is not.

Edited August 8, 2007 by scathing

[BHDave]

I have to wonder sometimes whether the general public are so uninformed that they think it's acceptable, or whether they immediately adopt the "meh" reaction because it has no effect on them?

Any potential p plater will be up in arms, obviously, as their car selection has just been reduced.

I'm surprised that merc cares, are they targeting new p platers in their advertising? Personally, if i was mercedes Aus, I'd be advertising our new "High Powered turbo c class" targeted at the 20 something businessman who absolutely has to have a merc (as it's a status symbol)

[blind_elk]

Unfortunately, trying to persuade the government that there are better ways to go about injury and death reductions on the state's roads is just like bashing your head against a brick wall!

Improved training has to be No. 1. As Peter Wherret said many years ago, "You don't learn how to drive a car, you learn how to get a licence".

They complain about how much it costs to treat injured people, but they won't do anything POSITIVE to prevent them being injured in the first place.

I drove up the Calder the other night to Bendigo. It's a while since I've been along the road past Calder raceway. It's now 80 zone, because people (drivers) keep trying to cross over the road in front of cars travelling 100 in the opposite direction. Which idiot designed that in the first place? Why don't they build a single overpass as the only means to get into and out of the Taylors Lakes area. No, can't do that - costs money! But we'll continue to spend money treating injuries (and complaining about the cost).

My brother is a QANTAS pilot. Do you think he was able to jump in a 747 simply because he got a licence to fly a Cessna 210? NOT ON YOUR NELLIE! And it should be the same with driving on the roads. I personally feel that P-platers should have to pass an Advanced Driving course to get a full licence. And if they can do that in 1 year, so be it. If they take 10 years, then at least other drivers will be aware that they are basically incompetent and steer clear of them.

/rant

[WogsRus]

HUMM got to love tassie.

DO what you like, drive what you like and how you like it, police are slack, transport has no say. LOVE IT.

[Magdalicious]

It should be judged on power/weight ratio. Its the only reasonable way to govern which vehicles P platers will be able to drive. I cant speak for other states but that is what has happened with the reform of motorcyle licensing in SA. Before a learner was only able to ride 250cc or under though it never used to state particular models ie. a learner could ride a 4 stroke 250 road/trail bike or an aprillia rs250 two stroke road/race bike and both were legal. Now there is a whole list of bikes upto 600cc that learners are able to ride though anything with a high power to weight ratio has been banned from that list regardless of engine capacity.

[vanix]

Not all P platers are aged 17-20. There will be a wide range of ages, so Mercedes are perhaps looking at it from that perspective.

[adam-__-]

I don't understand why they keep banning cars. They seem to know that it's not gonna improve anything, but they still do it to make it look like they're doing something about the problem.

I have friends and family who have recently just got their licence and to be honest, they're pretty bad drivers. They don't pay enough attention and take too many risks. I'm still not old enough to get my licence, but I've got to say, some people aren't supposed to have their licence and I don't understand how some of them even get their licences in the first place.

They need to make getting licences harder.

[Sticky]

definently need to bring in advanced driving courses.

my girlfriend cant drive for shit, and somehow she passed the test after failing it 3 times. it still scares me to get in the car (121!!!)

p platers should be restricted to a power to weight limit like i was when on my L's for a motorbike.

it makes a big difference going from a subaru liberty to a WRX, which i have done. and being slightly older when i got the WRX i had experience and sensibility to drive it

[thorpe84]

are you kidding me? WTF??

seriously wtf is next? making p platers only drive cars 2 or 3 years old because they have better safety features?

[adam-__-]

Vicroads should've just left the rules at P platers not being able to drive a car over the 125kw/tonne rule and to just make it harder for people to get their licences.

I know what you mean Sticky, I got in the car of my cousin's for the first time and it will be the last. I don't feel safe with him.

[scathing]

I'm surprised that merc cares, are they targeting new p platers in their advertising? Personally, if i was mercedes Aus, I'd be advertising our new "High Powered turbo c class" targeted at the 20 something businessman who absolutely has to have a merc (as it's a status symbol)

No, but there are still quite a few single-vehicle families out there that are cashed up enough to buy a Merc, but not cashed up enough to buy another car for junior. My family, for example. When I was on my L's and P's I was driving the family's only car. So's my brother, now.

Yeah he could go get a job himself and buy something, but then some parents are like "the car my novice child drives needs to be new so it has modern safety features"...you know, actually thinking about safety rather than just knee-jerk reactions, and as well as the status symbol for themselves. It doesn't make as much sense to us, being young and childless, but parents actually worry about their kids and some don't want their kids rolling in old nuggets with no crumple zones, no ABS, no air bags, etc. They want to let their kids drive their car with all those TLA safety features, which they'd never afford by themselves, but now have to stick to buying an Audi or BMW.

[MANWHORE]

No, but there are still quite a few single-vehicle families out there that are cashed up enough to buy a Merc, but not cashed up enough to buy another car for junior. My family, for example. When I was on my L's and P's I was driving the family's only car. So's my brother, now.

Yeah he could go get a job himself and buy something, but then some parents are like "the car my novice child drives needs to be new so it has modern safety features"...you know, actually thinking about safety rather than just knee-jerk reactions, and as well as the status symbol for themselves. It doesn't make as much sense to us, being young and childless, but parents actually worry about their kids and some don't want their kids rolling in old nuggets with no crumple zones, no ABS, no air bags, etc. They want to let their kids drive their car with all those TLA safety features, which they'd never afford by themselves, but now have to stick to buying an Audi or BMW.

Most politicians are not open to logic and reasoning. Most of the general bogans out there think oh yeah, highpowered cars are dangerous. e.g. I drive down the street at 60ks an hour, and I get some random uneducated hillbilly gesturing to me to slow down...

The only way the government keeps these people happy is to satisfy their (limited) beliefs

[700HP-GTR33]

How can you enforce a policy without actually doing any surveys/researching/consultation etc etc....

Suppose this is what lead to Steve Bracks early retirement.

Bracks had a interview the day before he retired where he stated a decision was made to go ahead with the desalination

plant and named the town....the media drilled him about the way he conduct the government.

Locals were shocked...no consultation or report was made into the inpacked it would have on the community of the town and its people.

The procedure should be..consultation..pros and cons..understanding and reasoning...Then a decision.

This is totally off the topic but represent the way the Vic State government do their jobs....yes pretty poorly.

We have got what I would call a military type leadership here..and if we are not careful a push bike

and a 100cc smart car is all we will end up being able to drive.

Now if you ask me.....Young drivers think they are super hero's.

They feel they are never going to crash and burn...so being arrogant and with no or little experience

think the are indestructible....problem being they take other lives being dick-heads as well as their own.

So no level of driver training or crap will help a lot of them...it will encourage them to drift and speed even more .

Politicians have no choice in handing out this heavy handed treatment to them....although the consultation and

debating part of the decision making is authoritarian and resembles the Nazi tactics back in Germany.

[Roy]

Resembles Nazi Germany is pretty thin...but i hear you. So are you sayign that they didnt do any Environmental Imapct Studies etc for the desalination plant? Its sad but true that in the world of engineering the not so great minds end up in the public service. So little wonder our roads and infrastructure lack vision

[Cassbo]

Improved training has to be No. 1. As Peter Wherret said many years ago, "You don't learn how to drive a car, you learn how to get a licence".

They complain about how much it costs to treat injured people, but they won't do anything POSITIVE to prevent them being injured in the first place.

I personally feel that P-platers should have to pass an Advanced Driving course to get a full licence. And if they can do that in 1 year, so be it. If they take 10 years, then at least other drivers will be aware that they are basically incompetent and steer clear of them.

Couldn't agree more with this, a crawl before you walk approach. In my opinion if you have to work for a car to earn it, you are alot less likely to kill yourself and others. And I'm not just talking about the skill advantage, but in most people things like that change your thought processes a little

Vicroads should've just left the rules at P platers not being able to drive a car over the 125kw/tonne rule and to just make it harder for people to get their licences.

I know what you mean Sticky, I got in the car of my cousin's for the first time and it will be the last. I don't feel safe with him.

Power to weight ratio is a little tricky. Lets take an R31 Skyline Wagon. Produces 114kWs and weighs 1,360kgs, its fairly heavy and its not a whole bunch of power. But there was enough there to get myself in grief and its strange that I had no accidents in it. As stated before, you should have to earn a licence to drive a certain power to weight ratio.

But here is an interesting thought, cars are constantly made better. They have better brakes, air bags, traction control, you name it. Yet how often have you seen a speed limit on a road go up? Wouldn't the road toll be lower now than when it was constructed? Why aren't roads built to a quality where cars should be able to safely do over 120km/h? Where the hell does our money go when we pay for rego/stamp duty/taxes on fuel/GST? The price of a heavy administration I suppose

[Roy]

I have a few suggestions...

How about you have to be noted on the insuracnce policy of the car you are driving, and whilst under 25 your car must be fully insured. Obviously the insurance for sportier cars is much more expensive so limits some peoples cars to the more dangerous (if thats the word) cars.

If you are caught driving a vehicle that you are not insured for then major fines ensue. So this includes parents cars (parents will think long and hard about handing overs the keys of certain cars to their kids because of the insurance cost). Also as part of your registration you must provide a certificate from a authorised training body stating you have participated and passed in driver training courses over the past 12 months. If you have been booked for driving offences then the cost of registration increases, so basically if you dont want to keep it in your pants when driving these sorts of cars then you either pay through the nose and inevitably sell the car. Or you keep your nose clean and wait until you grow that bit older and chill out (or get a Mrs who cuts off your balls for speeding Or flushing money down the toilet in fines) Imagine what the quotes for insurance woudl be if every under 25yr old drover had to haev cars fully insured? Often with financial responsibility comes maturity.

The benefit of this type of approach is at least you are keeping a control over the idiots who are driving 800cc Handivans at break neck speeds, doing handbrakies in Lasers...and then the import/V8 guys in cars with some poke. Not just busting the balls of the people that want to drive nice cars...rather all people and especially the idiots

So financial penalties of insurance and registration costs help pay for govt subsidised training, this way the financial burden is balanced with actual training. I dont know of many people who have had a lose at the track who havent crapped their pants and slowed down a hell of a lot on the street.