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Have The Japs Actually Tried?

Guilt-Toy

By Guilt-Toy,
in General Automotive Discussion

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Guilt-Toy Grand Master

Guilt-Toy

Posted
Posted

I was just wondering.. Why dont the japs ever release a really potent powerfull machine ?

I mean they over engineer some engines like the RB's and 1/2J's to be pushed alot harder then how they release them but every time i think about it i wonder what would happen if nissan and toyota actually tried to make a really high powered sports car that has no limits ?

I am aware that there are lots of limits they have to stand by but I was just thinking.. From the likes of Holden & Fords new 300+ kw engines which makes alot more power standard then the japs do... I was just wondering what kinda things do you guys expect we would see ?

Im thinkin Nissan would have a 4wd gtr spin off that will have 800 4wkw and toyota might do a rwd 1000kw monster.

Buy yeah kinda sucks that you can get BMW's with a heap of power standard and even a ford or holden these days when the japs IMHO just sit back and watch and are only interested in doing their own thing.

Would be good to see a mass produced jap super car take on the high end market.

But yeah if there has been some then tell us about it....

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Lithium Grand Master

Lithium

Posted
Posted
Seriously.. what normal person would want a 800awkw car..

Haha what normal person really wants a 200+awkw car? :P

I suspect the new GTR will have enough power to embarrass lightly tuned RB powered GT-Rs, given the fact that it sounds like it will have 3.5litres +, will probably have variable valve timing + lift (VTEC ftw haha), and a pair of turbos using modern technology. It'd be HARD to have it a fun car to drive (ie, not choke above 5500rpm) and NOT make in the territory of 500hp with that efficient a setup.

GTS4WD Grand Master

GTS4WD

Posted
Posted

Well wasnt the gentlemans agreement of the 206KW broken sometime last year?..

Didnt the 350 break it?

So Im hopeing its GAME ON!

Things to look forward to:

Evo X

V35 GTR.. arnt the calling it streight and simple "Nissan GTR"? HOPEFULLY pushing decent amount of power..

Rumour somewhere has it there is a new NSX comming out?

Hopefully we may see a new supra return?

NISMO Grand Master

NISMO

Posted
Posted

Quite simple, a Japanese supercar like your describing will cost upwards of $300000 at best.

Supercars such as Ferrari, Lambo etc have been around for a while, and the people with cash to buy these, would pi$$ in their pants with laughter if one of there brothers where to swap out of a German/Italian supercar into a Jap one.

The target market would be fanboys such as ourselves :-)

Out of the thousands of members on these forums, how many could drop $300k on a car? Then, how many would choose said car over a European supercar for the same money?

I reckon you could count the number of people on 1/19th of a finger :-)

So the answer is - no one would buy one!

See NSX as the perfect example.

$250k for a Honda - ummm no thanks! $250k for a bright Red Italian prancing pony - yes please!

simpletool Mentor

simpletool

Posted
Posted

Could have said the same thing about luxury cars before the LS400. Look at the american market now. You can't judge on the status quo.

Mind you, it is a big risk and one that has to be done BETTER than the existing car makers. And as profitable as that market is right now, it has not always been profitable. Therefore up until the last few years it was not a market that a large company that has a duty to it's shareholders would take.

Remember it was the CHEAPEST car in the Porsche line-up that made it profitable again. (the Boxter).

However, economic returns aside.

I think a good compromise for Toyota would be a 5.0 L V8 derived from LS460, with 2 medium turbos (around GTRS size)/ one per bank. Would make about 400rwkw on say 12psi. Too mcuh more than that wouldn't pass heat tests/emisions/drive quality/reliability on factory engines.

More likely they would make around 400 flywheel KW and make it a bit lighter with aluminium and plastics. (<1400kg).

Keep in mind the Bugatti Veyron has astronomical servicing costs and very frequent. ~746kw.

NISMO Grand Master

NISMO

Posted
Posted

I still think it's all to do with Brand perception. Especially when it comes to sports cars. Luxury cars are a whole different ball game and entry/mid level luxury could be persuaded by value.

Top of line luxury - no way, it'll be a cold in hell before someone who lives in top of the line Mercs, trades in for a top of the line Lexus. Even if the cars were identical.

Don't get me wrong, I would love the fact if it happened, but I doubt it.

Take a look at some of the US 350Z and G35 forums, and you'll quickly find ALOT of people who aren't even considering buying the new GTR simply because it's a Nissan.

These are people who have the money to do so, and love the 350Z and skylines, and previous GTR's but when it comes to big bucks, they simply don't want to say they paid X dollars for a Nissan, and will opt for Porche/M3 etc any day of the week.

NISMO Grand Master

NISMO

Posted
Posted
correct me if im wrong, but i thought that the new GTR was squarely aimed at taking on the new 997 911's?

thats what i read in wheels/motor anyways, they had pictures of it driving around the nurburgring with a 911....

Defiantely - 100% thats what it's aiming at.

The problem is go down to your local Porsche club and see how many 997 twin turbo owners would swap the Porka for a GTR.

You'll definately get some people, but personally I think the vast majority of new GTR owners will be cashed up younger people who love the Japanese car culture and those who can't afford the Euro's. And the odd, non conforming rich man, who will enjoy handing his Porsche driving mates their a$$es on the track.

I would love for it to be a success, cause I'm one of the Nissan fanboys I'm speaking of. Afterall for the money I paid for my V35 I could have got a much better performing car, but then it wouldn't have a Skyline badge on the back.

m3gtr Grand Master

m3gtr

Posted
Posted
I was just wondering.. Why dont the japs ever release a really potent powerfull machine ?

I mean they over engineer some engines like the RB's and 1/2J's to be pushed alot harder then how they release them but every time i think about it i wonder what would happen if nissan and toyota actually tried to make a really high powered sports car that has no limits ?

I am aware that there are lots of limits they have to stand by but I was just thinking.. From the likes of Holden & Fords new 300+ kw engines which makes alot more power standard then the japs do... I was just wondering what kinda things do you guys expect we would see ?

Im thinkin Nissan would have a 4wd gtr spin off that will have 800 4wkw and toyota might do a rwd 1000kw monster.

Buy yeah kinda sucks that you can get BMW's with a heap of power standard and even a ford or holden these days when the japs IMHO just sit back and watch and are only interested in doing their own thing.

Would be good to see a mass produced jap super car take on the high end market.

But yeah if there has been some then tell us about it....

I was wondering..how many times do you have to use bigoted words before you upset someone?

obviously your cubic inches outweigh your cpu.

Cassbo Grand Master

Cassbo

Posted
Posted
I was just wondering.. Why dont the japs ever release a really potent powerfull machine ?

I mean they over engineer some engines like the RB's and 1/2J's to be pushed alot harder then how they release them but every time i think about it i wonder what would happen if nissan and toyota actually tried to make a really high powered sports car that has no limits ?

I am aware that there are lots of limits they have to stand by but I was just thinking.. From the likes of Holden & Fords new 300+ kw engines which makes alot more power standard then the japs do... I was just wondering what kinda things do you guys expect we would see ?

Im thinkin Nissan would have a 4wd gtr spin off that will have 800 4wkw and toyota might do a rwd 1000kw monster.

Buy yeah kinda sucks that you can get BMW's with a heap of power standard and even a ford or holden these days when the japs IMHO just sit back and watch and are only interested in doing their own thing.

Would be good to see a mass produced jap super car take on the high end market.

But yeah if there has been some then tell us about it....

Its performance versus endurance. I think Skylines, Supras, NSXs, RX-7s ect are all made to both have a fair amount of kick without compromising too much on reliability. Think about it, how many Ferraris and Lamborghinis lasting +100,000kms? They aren't designed to, they are designed to go hard and not much else. For a good time not a long time. Now hands up all with Skylines that have gone past the 100,000km mark.

Also, the last GT-R that was made was (according to Redbook, not 100% sure if its true) was 2000. To compare it to the latest Fords, Holdens and BMWs seems a little unfair. A 2000 VT Series 2 SS Commodore put out 220kWs standard. Compare that to the Skyline's "208kWs" and it brings it into prospective a little.

I have to agree though, there seems to be a trend lately that all car manufacturers seem to be steering away from turbo charged performance vehicles, not just Japanese ones. Hopefully the new GT-R will change that. :)

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