Downshifting

[tjandriesen]

I've read a few books about driving lately as well as gotten advice from many about improving driving skills. Everyone suggests that a key high performance driving skill is learning to heel-toe on downshifts. What I have seen mixed comments about if you should single or double clutch when you downshift. What do you guys do?

[scathing]

I only double clutch from 3rd into 2nd. I'm not sure why that is; I think its just force of habit. There's no mechanical reason for me to do so. I think even if I go from 4th to 2nd I'll still do a single clutch; definitely from 4th to 3rd is a single clutch manouvre.

I know that if I want to grab 1st from 2nd while on the move I need to double clutch; a simple heel-toe still locks me out of 1st.

Heel-toeing helps your rev match, which is good for avoiding compression locking when decellerating while not having to faff about with easing the clutch in. When you're driving close to the limits, doing stuff that stops the car from upsetting its balance is a good thing.

[Victory]

Double clutching is one of those skills that once you have mastered just comes naturally every time that you change gears. It does put less stress on your gearbox and makes the shift smoother.

If you have a GTS-T then a simple mod is to install a GTR accelerator pedal. It is simple to install and has an extension out on the left side to make it easier to heel toe. These only cost about $20 and make heel toeing so much easier.

[Yawn]

Double clutching ie; clutch, shift to neutral, lift foot off clutch, clutch again, shift into gear?

Besides protecting your gearbox, I dont see much more point to it?

[Quiet Achiever]

Double clutching ie; clutch, shift to neutral, lift foot off clutch, clutch again, shift into gear?

Besides protecting your gearbox, I dont see much more point to it?

As one writer said after a while it simply becomes habit.

When you consider the correct technique for tarmac driving and cornering being to brake first then down change the double clutch down change makes no time difference whatsoever. The benefits are a smoother ride, less wear and tear on the gearbox, no compression lock. Certainly for street driving it is probably a marginal call doubling from 4th to 3rd but always 3rd to 2nd or 4th to 2nd.

In racing applications you would never think of not doubling and in fact is an important part of passing the observed driving test to gain a racing licence. After that you start to play with flat changing and left foot braking...a whole new tutorial on the left foot braking pros and cons.

[swanny180]

To be honest Im not sure myself... I think I use a mix of single and double clutching when Im heel-toe downshifting when driving spiritedly...

If its a normal downshift I will almost always double clutch. But yeah, when giving it a bit of stick you dont always have a lot of time (obviously) so sometimes I think I just single clutch?

One thing Ive noticed watching the pedal cam in Japanese clips (option, BM etc), is that a lot of drivers in those clips only single clutch when downshifting.

[r33_racer]

downshifting with a dog box forces you to heel-toe also..help avoid those massive CRUNCHES.

Excellent for all the reasons already stated.

[tjandriesen]

Double clutching is one of those skills that once you have mastered just comes naturally every time that you change gears. It does put less stress on your gearbox and makes the shift smoother.

If you have a GTS-T then a simple mod is to install a GTR accelerator pedal. It is simple to install and has an extension out on the left side to make it easier to heel toe. These only cost about $20 and make heel toeing so much easier.

I've been trying to double clutch all the time on the street just to ingrain the habit, but didn't really know if there was a reason to single or double. I've had a couple of ocassion on the track where I've definately upset the balance of the car downshifting without doing it. Spun once.

I have a GTR but installed Razo pedals anyway as they are height & width adjustable so it is easier to roll over on them to blip the accelerator.

[ashneel]

If you have a GTS-T then a simple mod is to install a GTR accelerator pedal. It is simple to install and has an extension out on the left side to make it easier to heel toe. These only cost about $20 and make heel toeing so much easier.

you learn something new everyday.

will be getting one soon for my GTST

[260DET]

The point of heel and toeing is to maintain braking while changing down ie your right foot works both the accelerator and the brake at the same time. With a syncromesh gearbox I can't see the point in double declutching, you can still match revs with speed without it. For racing it would be just too slow anyway. Well it should be

[ak_stylez]

The point of heel and toeing is to maintain braking while changing down ie your right foot works both the accelerator and the brake at the same time. With a syncromesh gearbox I can't see the point in double declutching, you can still match revs with speed without it. For racing it would be just too slow anyway. Well it should be

I'm with him. What's the point of doubling?

[Duncan]

yeah in practice there's no real point double clutching, I guess in theory it saves your synchros a bit - its heal toeing/rev matching that is the important skill.

but 260DET....its not really slower, even with double clutching there are almost no places where the time to change down gears is longer than you are on the brakes anyway.

[hrd-hr30]

I think a few people are confusing double clutching and heel-toeing.

in a synchro box there is no need to double clutch. rev matching with heel-toe is all you need to do. if you do that properly, the synchros get a harder time up-shifting on the track.

I'm with 260DET. definitely not enough time to double clutch downshift at places like Mt Cotton hillclimb. And even if there is, by the time you've done the second clutching while braking hard, your road speed will have changed so much it was all to no avail anyway.

[Yawn]

^ Exactly my thoughts.

Quiet Achiever: The benefits you stated can be achieved through rev matching alone and therefore theres no need to double clutch?

I can understand it being a habit, but besides that i stand by my point.