M35 - Total Disaster...

[Wink]

thats exactly what i was going to ask, as far as im aware the 350z has the exact same VQ35DE that the M35 has :? and if anything a standard 350z has a even more open exhaust than what M35 has! whats the deal??

His M35 uses the VQ25DET, which is not used in any other car outside Japan.

[eMsta]

damn man...sorry to hear that.....

hopefully u get the c**ts in court......

[autech_axis]

The issue here is that the engine in the car is a VQ25DET, which was not fitted to any vehicles outside Japan. Consequently it was not built to meet the Euro or Californian emissions standards. If it had, there would not have been a problem.

The advice I was given before I purchased the car was that ANY M35 Stagea could be complied. I got this in writing from the compliancer. The SEVS entry at DOTARS permits M35 from 2001 to current, but of course this doesn't mean that the RAWS shop has the evidence. They told me they had. They lied, or made a mistake.

Because the ADR changed at the end of 2003 the ONLY issue preventing this vehicle being complied is that the motor does not comply with the emissions standard. From what I can gather, this is partly to do with emissions on start-up - after the cats get hot the situation is much better. It is not a matter of bolting on a load of goodies and running it on rocket fuel - it would seem that emissions compliance is a bit of a black art. The whole thing is a complete circus, because so long as one vehicle can be modified and complied, any subsequent vehicles can be plated on that evidence, regardless of whether the mods have been done to those vehicles.

I have obtained expert legal advice from my attorney in Sydney, the skinny of which is that the advice I was given came from a professional on whom I could expect to obtain expert advice. Fortunately we have a long paper trail of correspondence that will confirm all this, and when I finally have my day in court the advice I have is that they will lose. I should get all my money back, plus costs and expenses. However, this could take several months, in the meantime I have a fantastic car in my garage that can't be driven. All because some !@#$ made a mistake.

And yes - I am pretty upset about it. This should have been a fun experience. It's turned into a nightmare.

I wait to hear how Muz is going...?

[Brycey]

ohh i was under the impression that being a 2004 M35 it might have been the VQ35 model..

but thats even more confusing, because there are currently a few M35 VQ25DET's in australia completely registered and driving around

[Chris Rogers]

thats exactly what i was going to ask, as far as im aware the 350z has the exact same VQ35DE that the M35 has :? and if anything a standard 350z has a even more open exhaust than what M35 has! whats the deal??

extremely sorry to hear about this mate i can imagine your pulling your hair out.. hopefully things will turn out bright in the near future

these are VQ25det versions - so turbo. they are failing ADR79.

[Chris Rogers]

I wait to hear how Muz is going...?

me too. he's probably is a worse mood than you are..

[GoldZilla]

What a debacle! All I can think to say is that I wish you the best of luck in sorting it out in your favour, which looks pretty likely at this point in time...

AFAIK, the fact that you've got written documentation from the RAWS should help substantially.

[autech_axis]

ohh i was under the impression that being a 2004 M35 it might have been the VQ35 model..

but thats even more confusing, because there are currently a few M35 VQ25DET's in australia completely registered and driving around

There are. They were all built pre 2004.

[jasevr4]

Sounds ridiculous, but can you swap in a VQ35, get it complied and rego'd, then swap the engine back?

[pixel8r]

You can get VQ25DET stageas manufactured prior to 2003 as far as I know. Would this mean that these stageas would also not be available for compliance? Or does the year play a part as well (ie. if ADR laws changed in '03 does this mean cars before '03 dont have to meet these laws?).

There has been talk of getting the ADR's more inline with european specs and specs from other parts of the world. Apparently our emissions laws etc. make it pretty tough even for car manufacturers to get cars over here, and thats when they HAVE the option to do what they like to the car...

lets hope this changes in the not-too-distant future or we'll all eventually be forced to drive falcodores or something [shudders] (ok, exaggerating a little).

[m3gtr]

So what exactly will you do with the car??

I anticipate you will ship it out again and then..?

Thats a terrible position to be in.

Look on the bright side, there is the possibility of converting it into a drift machine! A stagea drift car..thatd be different.

[groonsnout]

Hmmn.. I know it sounds dodgy, but modify/swap build plate for 2003, rego, jobs done.. here in the ACT you only need to get one rego check done on purchase and never again (apart from randoms..) not sure what's like up there, but that would be the way to go down here.

[m3gtr]

why are you advising people to do illegal things on the forum groonsnout?

what you are suggesting is plain idiotic and liable to land OP a massive fine which could put im out of business for good.

nice suggestion.

[groonsnout]

why are you advising people to do illegal things on the forum groonsnout?

what you are suggesting is plain idiotic and liable to land OP a massive fine which could put im out of business for good.

nice suggestion.

settle down psycho.. take more or less of whatever you're on

If you're just looking for a solution to get it on the road then how is it any more illegal than other people's sugestions of putting 3 cats on the car just to pass emissions then pulling them off later, or engine swaps and swap backs

you need to take a good hard look at yourself mate.

[Muz]

OK fellas, I have read all that has been said and thank all for the comments. Both Matt and myself were both told unequivocally that our M35's would be right for compliance. We have this in writing although mine is from a different person than Matt's.

Concerning the emissions testing it is as Matt has said, they have tried the route of several cats and they simply do not get hot enough quickly enough to burn the noxious gasses that cause the problem. As Matt has also said, the agency conducting the testing has said in very clear language that there is little liklihood of the car passing the tests. The person who is attempting to get the car through this emissions thing is supposedly going to try with a piggy back ECU next week but we have been told so many porkies that we have lost all faith in the alleged experts.

Our legal advice is very similar to Matt's and it has been suggested that we give the broker that we used a week to try and sort it all out, otherwise it will be off to court for settlement. Mind you, the alleged expert trying to get the car through emissions has had the car for over three months now and really hasn't achieved anything to date. This car was purchased on the 20th of March 2007 and landed in Australia 2 months later which in itself was another debacle but that's another story.

Just as a little side note to all this, the alleged expert doing the emissions testing has at various times suggested that he will buy the car from us if he is not able to get the vehicle approved in a reasonable time frame. The car is a top of the line M35 AR-X with everything. Kinda makes you think doesn't it?

cheers

Muz

[Guest]

I have a 2002 M35 with the VQ25DET sitting in Japan which is a test car for me and for passing ADR 79 we have to put 3 catalytic converters in it but the newer version or 79 is harder again to pass and we have a big problem on turbo charged cars, the 2004 Cima had over 100,000 klm's on it and it still passed.

On a 2005 CPV35 with 170 single klm's it passed up to 2005 quite easily so we gave it a run for the new EURO standards but it did not even come close, I did offer to buy a 1,000 klm M35 to get ADR 79 for 2004/05 but they think even then it might fail.

As a RAW I honestly feel sorry for the predicament you are in as I have imported a couple of cars for emissions but I have always used my own cars as it can take 12 months, we need a car to pass eventually but that doesn't help you.

I added this to try and shed a bit of light to others on the forum but at least you have it in writing from the importer.

[Kineso]

Dude, I feel for you. I'm importing ATM as well and I would be livid if that happened to me.

What I am failing to understand however, is why the list of eligible vehicles on the DOTARS site does not accurately reflect this? As far as I'm concerned, they shouldn't list a vehicle there if nobody holds the evidence pack - seems ridiculous to me.

Everyone who is saying, 'put in a couple of extra cats' and shit like that - do you think that a car passing Euro/US emissions is that easy? It's likely the inherent design of the engine and its associated components. There's a reason why there are no turbocharged Nissan variants on sale in Aus + a lot of tasty stuff we never see. We're talking pass/fail criteria of several parts per millon of certain outputs - a frickin power FC tune ain't gonna do jack shit!

[Duncan]

I agree Kineso its disgsuting that DOTARS gave an import approval for a car/engine combination they know will not be able to be registered.

Surely if the 25det cant pass a 35de swap would be a worthwhile option, say $5k to do.

[Muz]

I agree Kineso its disgsuting that DOTARS gave an import approval for a car/engine combination they know will not be able to be registered.

Surely if the 25det cant pass a 35de swap would be a worthwhile option, say $5k to do.

To make it through the process the vehicle must be in original condition so all those thinking engine swaps are way off the mark. Just wish it was that easy! And I think the $5000 grand is a total guestimate.

Cheers

Muz

[Guest]

The vehicle is eligible to come in which is why an import approval was issued by DOTARS but it isn't till the workshop has to prove the car meets the ADR's were the problem lies, now someone always has to bring the first car in for different test to be completed, I know of a few people mislead by importers lately on emission tests which has caused problems like this.

Under ADR 79 an emission report is required for each transmission variant so with the V35 skyline as an example one for 3.5 5 Speed Auto, 8 Speed Auto, 6 speed Manual, 2.5 4 Speed and 3.0 5 Speed then the CPV35 one for 5 Speed Auto and one for 6 Speed Manual.