M35 - Total Disaster...

[Tangles]

I hate to be the bastard out of all of this; but isnt it Buyer Beware? There is plenty of info out there in regards to compliance, dotars, raws, revs etc. In fact I was fairly certain pre this thread that a M35, to be safe, should be around year model 2001 if you really wanted to bring one in.

Id say legally the purchaser of this uncomplibale motor vehicle will be ok at the end of the day, but a court of law may also rule that the purchaser didnt look 'enough' for the available information himself..............

* gets flame suit on *

[ssshonky]

yes and no .. he had it on good advice that it would get complied a-ok

and to be honest.. the whole process of importing a vehicle is pretty damned complex and it would take a crazy amount of time to digest every little nuance and technical detail of it all.

[Tangles]

exactly the reason why I bought a pre-complied Stagea.......

although I understand in this case that generally isnt possible (due to late model)

however, the purchaser simply HAS to cop some of the blame IMO; the information is freely available to all and sundry and states what year/month M35 is complaible.

mind you, if you are paying a fee (and this fee was pre paid) to an importing service for the "service" of doing the importation, then yes you'd legally expect the paid-for service would be "above board" and once you've received said service you'd have a nice fresh complied M35 Stagea

[ssshonky]

ZIGACTLY!!!

but sadly its not what tends to happen in real life

a lot of it comes down to you having to ask questions and seeking people that have done it before

and to be honest you have to do a fair bit of leg work and harassing people to find out whats going on .. but thats getting a bit off the topic at hand.

but yes.. he paid the $1000 or whatever it is right off the bat and yes you would assume you got technically correct info .. but you know what they say about assumptions

exactly the reason why I bought a pre-complied Stagea.......

although I understand in this case that generally isnt possible (due to late model)

however, the purchaser simply HAS to cop some of the blame IMO; the information is freely available to all and sundry and states what year/month M35 is complaible.

mind you, if you are paying a fee (and this fee was pre paid) to an importing service for the "service" of doing the importation, then yes you'd legally expect the paid-for service would be "above board" and once you've received said service you'd have a nice fresh complied M35 Stagea

[Muz]

I am one of those that this thread applies to. First of all let me say that I did due diligence when investigating the importation of said motor vehicle and yes I do actually accept some small portion of blame for being naive enough to believe that the person/company that I paid $1000.00 to would be up to date with all regulations etc.

I researched the DOTARS web site prior to committing to buy said vehicle and if anyone has actually read the site you will understand that it implies that compliance is available for the M35. Full STOP! Nothing is mentioned about pre 11-2003 or anything else. The importing person/company was quite definite in stating that compliance was available.

What else should I/we have done? Buyer beware - crap!

[Iron Chef]

Ref: the import broker...

Can't say publicly. This matter will shortly be sub judice.

And they did. They were wrong.

Thanks Nigel - I appreciate your offer of help. Unless you know any other RAW who is currently attempting to get emissions on 2004+ M35 with VQ25DET then there's not much to be done.

For the record I don't deal with brokers, and I don't deal with dealers. I have a buyer in Kobe and deal direct with the RAWS shop. I sent them full details of the car, including the auction house sheet prior to purchase, and relied on their advice about compliance. I have several emails from them stating that the car could be complied, and it was only Chris Rogers who alerted me to the potential problem. Unfortunately at this stage the car was already on a ship...

Do these two statements contradict each other? Did you use a broker or not? :S

The problem is that, on the DoTaRS website, all M35s are listed as being eligible, which given that information as well as what he was told from the workshop themselves, he could rightly assume he could find whatever one he liked. Perhaps DoTaRS also need to look into how they display their information on the website (and perhaps autech_axis, you lawyers might consider listing them in any legal action)

Did I read somewhere that the workshop offered to buy the car back off you? Wouldn't that be far cheaper than taking them to court? I know there are principles at stake, but it might wind up causing you a lot less grief in the long run, given that one of your suitable resolutions was to be paid for all costs incurred so far. Are they offering to pay you what the car owes you?

I can understand how this drama must be fairly gut-wrenching for you guys though, having such beautiful cars in your possession and not being able to drive them fully registered.

Edited September 6, 2007 by vrfour

[Guest]

Did the workshop give a time frame to comply the car which is an important point as the Import Approval requires it complied in 12 months but an extension is available, if life is made hard for the workshop they can go well come back in a year and it will be ready.

It is harsh what is stated above but as people know in life you rub someone up the wrong way if they are not nice people they might make your life hard.

[autech_axis]

Ref: the import broker...

Do these two statements contradict each other? Did you use a broker or not? :S

The problem is that, on the DoTaRS website, all M35s are listed as being eligible, which given that information as well as what he was told from the workshop themselves, he could rightly assume he could find whatever one he liked. Perhaps DoTaRS also need to look into how they display their information on the website (and perhaps autech_axis, you lawyers might consider listing them in any legal action)

Did I read somewhere that the workshop offered to buy the car back off you? Wouldn't that be far cheaper than taking them to court? I know there are principles at stake, but it might wind up causing you a lot less grief in the long run, given that one of your suitable resolutions was to be paid for all costs incurred so far. Are they offering to pay you what the car owes you?

I can understand how this drama must be fairly gut-wrenching for you guys though, having such beautiful cars in your possession and not being able to drive them fully registered.

Tangles - your comments are not at all helpful, and I can only suggest that you read the ENTIRE thread, including information which I have posted detailing exactly how I made the decision to purchase this vehicle. You don't seem to understand the issue of liability attaching to the RAWS shop that gave me the advice in writing that this exact vehicle could be complied. Earlier in this thread I posted a transcript of the legal opinion I had from a Pitt St Lawyer - which you obviously have been too lazy to read...

Now listen carefully guys... DOTARS issues an entry on the SEVS register stating which vehicles meet the criteria required to enable import. In this case the SEVS entry permits M35 Stagea with a variety of engines (including the VQ25DET) from 2001 to current. Now I realised that this does NOT means that evidence is available for each particular model - it's up to the RAW to determine which models they wish to purchase or self-engineer the evidence for, and this is obviously based on good commercial practise. Knowing this I sent repeated emails to the RAWS shop that appears on the register as having compliance for this model, including the actual auction sheet prior to purchase. The shop therefore had no excuse for advising me that the vehicle could be complied. As I have stated previously, they had responsibility for giving me the advice, and they got it wrong.

Legal opinion is crystal-clear here: I should have been able to rely upon the 'expert' advice given by the shop, and therefore am entitled to seek compensation for all the losses incurred as a result. The RAWS shop has NOT (yet) offered to buy my car off me. Hopefully we won't get to that point.

Finally, you do not need to use an import agent or broker to import a car under SEVS. You can do it yourself, as I have many times. I simply deal directly with a buyer in Japan, and apply for import approval to DOTARS through a RAWS shop. Thus cutting out the middle-man.

[webng]

Heard on the grapevine that http://www.sinergymotorsports.com.au/ are about to import a 2005 M35. Maybe they know something?

[Tangles]

Tangles - your comments are not at all helpful, .......

dude Ive read every word. a few times. as I said, I didnt feel my comments would go down that well, but its a public forum and I decided to make comment nonetheless.

I still feel there is a small onus of responsibility on the buyer (in terms of doing some research themselves, and knowing what can be done / cant be done); same as for a car accident & insurance- you can be 100% completely in the right, but the insurance mob will argue you were 5% in the wrong 'just by being there'

however it sounds as if you have covered your behind quite well, well done to you, Id say you'll come out of this "ok" at the end of the day; spend up big with the legal-eagles thats for sure. hopefully you can get back most of your costs.