Mk V Golf R32 * 08 Lancer Evo X * 02/03 Boxster S * R34 Gtr Vspec

[Bumblebee]

its still the crappest porsche isnt it??? is there anything worse than a boxster??? no.. that makes it entry level

[m3gtr]

so true your comment on how skylines have such a negative social image. not that i would actually feel guilty driving one but probably don't need the extra hassle day in and day out. having said that, an R34GTR is still very tempting.

i like your idea of dropping the coin with BMW especially an E46 M3 however only would look at a manual example as I understand the SMG is quite lifeless compared to a proper twin clutch system like VW's DSG. The V10 E60 M5 is still well out of my reach as you can see here http://www.drive.com.au/used/search/results.aspx?m=BMW%7CM5 maybe their used examples are more affordable in Japan I not sure.

I don't generally like Mercedes-Benzes I think they not driver focused cars. Most AMG models are only offered with an auto gearbox which is boring. I would much rather a conventional manual or a mechanical auto like DSG or EVO X's SST.

the only Mercedes I would consider however is a SLK55 AMG but again its a little out of my price range.

Thanks for the reply, bayside.

To be completely honest, an SMG BMW M3 is quicker and easier to live with than the manual, but if you need a clutch pedal, i wont argue, i need one too! The early versions of SMG had some issues but the SMG II fixed those dramas.

I worked as an apprentice in a Euro workshop when i was a teen and while we had Ferraris, Mercs, Audis, Porsches, and of course BMW's, the main stuff, as in run of the mill-no major dramas-type service we did was brakes, air flow meters, tuning..and not a lot else..on BMW's mind you. Euros hardly have any problems but when they do, it can be pricey. That said, its like looking after the harder to manage type woman that needs her preening and maintenance but keeps her looks and performance well into her years and is like the umm how should i put it politely... M.I.L.F you'd like to have a go with even though you know its wrong..

still, thats YEARS later.

Im going to be completely honest and advise you to steer away from the Golf. I like the car dont get me wrong but, its not a stayer. A one hit wonder. VW does not have the brand punch other Euros have. Its a shame as it hurts the value and look at the last gen. GTi and R32! Utter cops. They got it right this time but i dont like their brand unpredictability.

In the price range youre in, a manual E46 M3 is easily affordable. You will be rewarded with a worthy drive EVERY time you turn the key. Its refined, docile in traffic- happy to putt along at low revs but turns feral when pushed, is sophisticated, raw when it needs to be, sounds shrill and bristling at over 8000RPM, is supremely engineered, and has a great resale value. What more do you want?

Eres a question. Have you ever heard anything derogatorily negative about the M3?

Id challenge any person to take that up.

You cant go wrong. Plus youll be the envy of ladies the Evo crowd can only hope to attract! The Evo was engineered with the track not the road in mind. The M3 was engineered for both.

Its your money but hey, you started the thread an id like to see the money go in the right direction. Its just my opinion but its an informed one. GL :sorcerer:

Adam/:

Edited September 6, 2007 by m3gtr

[Smurf]

when im cruisin around in my gtr, i dont ever get on the boost because theres heaps of torque downlow anyway.. while drivin my mates evos around, i found myself sittin @ 3k all the time just so the turbo gives me that lil bit more torque so i can keep up with traffic. Sure the evo handles like its on rails and all, but its a daily driver.. who cares how it handles..

why u think commonwhores and falcons r the most driven cars??? cheap??? @ 40k i think not... its because they make mountains of torque from the word go.. its not about how fast it is.. its about how easily it accelerates around town and the evo is by far the worst.

It's an interesting point you bring up. Sorry if this is off topic though have you ever driven a R33 GTS25T? Prior to buying one I didn't realise the lack of torque when compared to many other cars. Mines relatively standard and has moderate noise levels. I find that to keep up with traffic I need to rev to say 4,000 in every gear. At this level of revs my car is reasonably noisy. I think people look around at me thinking that I am racing them. On occaision I think it gives the wrong impression of skylines as people think the driver is trying hard when they are not.

Getting back to my question, is an Evo worse than an R33 GTS25T for torque?

Now that I have a Golf GTI I am absolutely loving the relaxed nature of the engine as peak torque is available from 1,800 revs. I'm not sick of the DSG system yet whowever I'm only 3 days into owning it.

[m3gtr]

THE EVO IS NOT PRACTICAL FOR EVERYDAY!

lag isnt an issue because like most of u have said, dont need to "race" the thing everywhere..

but like i asked b4.. how many of u have actually driven an evo??? i have... driven a 6,6.5,7,8 and a 9

They are the worst cars ive ever driven without boost... they have a lack of response.. no torque whatsoever.. if u havent got 3k on the dial, ull get eaten alive by cyclist. its not a fun car to drive slow. its absolutely terrible

a GTR has a heavier clutch but thats about it.. it has better brakes (evo brakes arent so great.. trust me) alot more torque..

when im cruisin around in my gtr, i dont ever get on the boost because theres heaps of torque downlow anyway.. while drivin my mates evos around, i found myself sittin @ 3k all the time just so the turbo gives me that lil bit more torque so i can keep up with traffic. Sure the evo handles like its on rails and all, but its a daily driver.. who cares how it handles..

why u think commonwhores and falcons r the most driven cars??? cheap??? @ 40k i think not... its because they make mountains of torque from the word go.. its not about how fast it is.. its about how easily it accelerates around town and the evo is by far the worst.

Ahahahah! post of the day!

what gear did you take off in?? 4th? :laughing-smiley-014: :laughing-smiley-014:

[Smurf]

I second the M3 option. My only concern would be ongoing costs of maintenance. Whether it's true or not, many have informed me that BMW's are very expensive to maintain. Something to look into.

[m3gtr]

I second the M3 option. My only concern would be ongoing costs of maintenance. Whether it's true or not, many have informed me that BMW's are very expensive to maintain. Something to look into.

I can tell you now smurf that, first, i dont knock your choice on the golf..i was checking an r32 out in a carpark outside the uni i work at here in Akihabara, Tokyo, just today and thought about how well its made.

i like the car. Im sure you must be stoked to have one! Im wondering what the kerb wieght on the GTi is..? Power to weight ratio?

On the M3, youre right, they are semi expensive to maintain but not prohibitively so. This is of course provided you dont bend anything and treat it like the spoilt butch princess it is. They are reliable and precisely engineered.

The best, well treated M3's will have certified documentation, have never seen nor been circuit driven, are owned by someone OVER 35 years old and have traveled very little, to be subjective, over the time of ownership. The BEST M3 is one to buy off an old man..

An old man that owns an e46 M3 is like a man who owns a cellar full of wine thats of immeasurable quality.

Personally, I love the way it fools you into thinking its a pretty mewling little kitten happy to play with the string, then, with you fully understanding and with a kick of the foot, turns into a snarling rasping cornered tiger.

Ive seen written off M3's and it almost brings a tear to the eye..

same with any horse or bull you care to mention....

[Smurf]

Im wondering what the kerb wieght on the GTi is..? Power to weight ratio?

Weight is 1,364 kg's. They only produce 147kw's so power to weight isn't that great. I have however learnt that power delivery is just as important as peak power and in this case makes for a reasonably rapid corner to corner car. I just try to enjoy what I have even though there are much faster cars out there.

[SECURITY]

I second the M3 option. My only concern would be ongoing costs of maintenance. Whether it's true or not, many have informed me that BMW's are very expensive to maintain. Something to look into.

we just did the clutch and flywheel in my m3 and it cost $800 for a clutch, $600 for a 2nd hand flywheel (damn those twin mass flywheels!) and $400 on labour.

they definitely arent cheap to do major works on, but servicing etc is just like every other car. do the servicing yourself and get a workshop to reset the service light on the dash.

if an m3 was on the list i definitely would've given it my vote. the pro's outweigh the cons.

[Smurf]

Don't mean to hijack the thread to make it about golf's, though I am currently obsessed with them in the same way that I have been about skylines for the last 10 years.

Anyway I just saw in Motor Magazines PCOTY 2006 the following:

R32 Golf

0-100 km/h - 6.3 secs

1/4 mile - 14.5 secs @ 157.5

1 kilometre - 26.4 @ 199.0

Golf GTI

0-100 km/h - 7.0 secs

1/4 mile - 14.9 secs @ 157.7 km/h

1 kilometre - 26.8 @ 200.9 km/h

Seems like there isn't too much in it from a straight line performance. If you ignore the 4wd launch of the R32 the times would be quicker.

Lap times around Winton were well in the R32's favour 1.44.04 versus 1.45.72. Apparently the GTI has too much understeer on track.

I'll get over the Golf thing shortly I promise you.

[m3gtr]

Weight is 1,364 kg's. They only produce 147kw's so power to weight isn't that great. I have however learnt that power delivery is just as important as peak power and in this case makes for a reasonably rapid corner to corner car. I just try to enjoy what I have even though there are much faster cars out there.

heck, they really pack a lot into cars these days dont they! I looked at the R32 and thought, surely about 1000kg's..its that compact!

Its not about speed anyway mate but what the car does in corners, in traffic,

You may get laughed at by the doof doof and hoon brigades but who gives a toss?? You'll be going through bends knowing they dont have the first clue as to what driving is really all about.

Anyone can floor a throttle but it takes insight and finesse to really reap the driving rewards. Nice catch.

still...at 147 it sounds like you need a ,...ahem.."chip". Only thing is, is finding a balance between what VW over-engineered into the car and chassis particularly and exploiting it without overkill..

thats the challenge should you choose to accept it...

[m3gtr]

we just did the clutch and flywheel in my m3 and it cost $800 for a clutch, $600 for a 2nd hand flywheel (damn those twin mass flywheels!) and $400 on labour.

they definitely arent cheap to do major works on, but servicing etc is just like every other car. do the servicing yourself and get a workshop to reset the service light on the dash.

if an m3 was on the list i definitely would've given it my vote. the pro's outweigh the cons.

$400 on labour is a bit rich.. it should only take a couple of hours provided the parts are there... at $200 an hour i hope the pope himself is doing the greasy stuff...

The clutch price is about right what you should pay BUT you can get a slightly used dual mass flywheel for around $100 AUD!!! How long i ask, was the clutch in for as in how many Km's and how hard and how often was it driven? The Flywheel should last the life of the car, in 6 speed configuration, provided the clutch plate is change at appropriate intervals..

Plus, I hope you realize that replacing a dual mass flywheel can add to gearbox noise..

Dont know where you got your work done but i can tell you it can be done for a lot less...sorry if that pinches...

[m3gtr]

Don't mean to hijack the thread to make it about golf's, though I am currently obsessed with them in the same way that I have been about skylines for the last 10 years.

Anyway I just saw in Motor Magazines PCOTY 2006 the following:

R32 Golf

0-100 km/h - 6.3 secs

1/4 mile - 14.5 secs @ 157.5

1 kilometre - 26.4 @ 199.0

Golf GTI

0-100 km/h - 7.0 secs

1/4 mile - 14.9 secs @ 157.7 km/h

1 kilometre - 26.8 @ 200.9 km/h

Seems like there isn't too much in it from a straight line performance. If you ignore the 4wd launch of the R32 the times would be quicker.

Lap times around Winton were well in the R32's favour 1.44.04 versus 1.45.72. Apparently the GTI has too much understeer on track.

I'll get over the Golf thing shortly I promise you.

youre not hijacking the thread mate, actually your helping OP to decide should he read this!

Just think...if this were a communist forum, taking bayside's original ballot into account, and all youd have for answers would be GTR GTR GTR GTR GTR!!!hahaha!

Edited September 6, 2007 by m3gtr

[BAMR33]

EVO, Porsche, GT-R all good choices.

Fck the fuel saver, why spend that much a volkswagen

[SECURITY]

$400 on labour is a bit rich.. it should only take a couple of hours provided the parts are there... at $200 an hour i hope the pope himself is doing the greasy stuff...

The clutch price is about right what you should pay BUT you can get a slightly used dual mass flywheel for around $100 AUD!!! How long i ask, was the clutch in for as in how many Km's and how hard and how often was it driven? The Flywheel should last the life of the car, in 6 speed configuration, provided the clutch plate is change at appropriate intervals..

Plus, I hope you realize that replacing a dual mass flywheel can add to gearbox noise..

Dont know where you got your work done but i can tell you it can be done for a lot less...sorry if that pinches...

well he replaced a few other things - slave cylinder and some plate on the back of the gearbox.

the only reason i thought $400 was fine was because i trust his work. everything he replaces he shows me and everything he gets in he shows me the receipts etc.

the clutch was in the car for a year (we had the motor rebuild 1.5yrs ago - also done by him). my brother doesnt drive it that hard - only a few runs down at WSID, but my dad cant drive manual to save his life. he drives it to work and back sometimes and rides the absolute shit out of it around 4 days a week.

[Bumblebee]

Ahahahah! post of the day!

what gear did you take off in?? 4th? :laughing-smiley-014: :laughing-smiley-014:

You've obviously never driven an evo of any kind

[rev210]

The golf is a girls car. compared to the evo and GTR it's a performance slug.

The boxter is a posers car ( it has a bigger wanker/wannabe factor ) and it's a performance slug.

The evo or GTR are both easy enough to drive every day like the other two and actually go.

As for lack of torque to keep up with traffic for the Evo, that's utter rubbish if you are being remotely sensible. It's like 90% of the rest of the cars on the road ie: lancers, corollas and pulsars.

Who cares if you beat everyone off the line at the lights, in some sort of " I'm not really trying to race you but, I am..." idiot fest. People who drive like that need to be put in a wheelie bin, set on fire and pushed into an unused mine shaft

[Smurf]

The golf is a girls car. compared to the evo and GTR it's a performance slug.

The boxter is a posers car ( it has a bigger wanker/wannabe factor ) and it's a performance slug.

The evo or GTR are both easy enough to drive every day like the other two and actually go.

As for lack of torque to keep up with traffic for the Evo, that's utter rubbish if you are being remotely sensible. It's like 90% of the rest of the cars on the road ie: lancers, corollas and pulsars.

Who cares if you beat everyone off the line at the lights, in some sort of " I'm not really trying to race you but, I am..." idiot fest. People who drive like that need to be put in a wheelie bin, set on fire and pushed into an unused mine shaft

Nice quote. So the Boxster despite winning Motor magazines performance car of the year and many other awards is actually a performance slug. Very interesting!!! I take it performance to you means acceleration only because this is the only area where it would lose out to a modified GTR or Evo.

I think you've missed the point about taking off from the lights. It's more to do with keeping up with traffic than beating traffic. It's pretty frustrating trying to keep up with Falcons and Commodores by having to rev it to 4,000 - 4,500 in each gear while they lumber along at 2,000 - 2,500. Torque makes a huge difference in this situation.

[Bumblebee]

atleast smurf knows what im talkin about... even a pulsar is more responsive and produces more torque downlow than an evo... even my lil civic feels zippier down low then my gtr... but atleast the gtr keeps up with traffic ok without havin to go past 2500-3000rpm just to keep up with the flow.. an evo does not. im always in the 3500rpm+ range just so the turbo makes enough boost to create some torque to move along with traffic...

its not about being sensible, because u could always wait till around 4.5k and ull pretty much decimate anything that comes along... but below that.. its just awful..

[JieLine]

This is the Evo X we are talking about here and going by the numbers from this:

http://wheelsmag.com.au/wheels/site/articl...A257344001A46EC

From the info provided, and the graph shown on the engine page, 300Nm is seen from 2000 rpm, and 420Nm is seen at 3500 rpm, i think thats enough torque for everyday driving ay?

[iMessenger]

Porsche Boxter.. its a Porsche