Is This Bs? Or What? School Zone

[R31Nismoid]

Be interesting to see the result of a 4 figure legal bill

[inark]

go the whole hog and rep yaself!

mind you to someone who faces losing their licence and job, a meer 4 figures would probably seem a much better option.

[Phantom32]

f*k it i'd fight it too

even if its a four figure bill as long as you win and keep your license its all good

with all the bad publicity bout police and radar guns lately i'd say you got a good chance of winning the case.

speak to a lawyer that speciliazes in driving offences - there a few out there. and from what i remember - they dont charge if they dont win

win win situation i reckon

Edited September 7, 2007 by Phantom32

[Basti]

im of the opinion that this fine is indeed bs - maybe not in the letter of the law but since when has the law applied to any r slow two different real situation perfectly? like Ni sed, this case seems to depend quite a lot on how fast or slow two different watches were, which seems a very stupid thing to base an alleged offence on. still i rekon you shoud take it on the chin, pay it and move on. esp cos you didnt have a clock in your car to dispute the coppa with.

lol at ni running around his house checkin all the different clocks just to make a point

[dalostcambo]

Having only copped 2 fines in 6 years of driving, one was for doing 104 in a 100 zone, I understand how stupid these speed limits have become, and if anyone wants to argue with me that getting a $150~ fine for doing 4km/h over the limit in a 100 zone can't be blatant revenue raising, then you're just delusional. I copped the fine, paid it, and moved on. Do the same. For what it's worth, you're not the only one it has happened to. Unfortunately this is how things are now. Good luck with everything.

too bad melbourne isnt like qld.

when i was in the gold coast, my cousin told me that their rule is 10% the speed limit "+" 1, have 110 on the motorway and dont have to display P's. better road rules than us! -_-"

nevertheless... we're in melbourne, what can we do?

i believe that school zone should be in around half an hour before and after school hours, not an hour and a half i think it was (8am-9:30am and 2:30pm-4pm)?

sorry to hear about your loss.

[inark]

it used to be like that.. back in the glory days

[[WLDCRD]]

There are two school zones which lie on the main roads. The first is a 70 zone, with large (40) Signs, and flashing lights and flags, when it is school time. The other one has two signs, one of which is partially covered by a tree.

the thing here is that you mentioned flashing lights. are you talking about the flasshing 40 led lights? If those signs are were activated it is done so by the Vic Roads guys and it is done automatically so its irrelevant what time the cop had in that case.

i actually work for a company who builds and installs those signs amongst other things. We are lucky that the government weren't allowed to put speed cameras in them like they wanted to!

and finally, i got the key that turns them off! HAHA

[GTR_STEALTH]

It seems there are several ways you can view this case...

1. The facts - 8:05am 58km/h in a 40km/h zone from 08:00.

2. The accuracy in acquiring those facts - variation/discrepancy in time etc.

This case can certainly be fought and probably won on the grounds that on your mind/watch it was before 08:00 and so you were abiding by the posted limit of 70km p/hr by traveling at 68km p/hr. A discrepancy of 5min between any two clocks/watches is certainly not inconceivable (...any more would probably tip the case the other way). The fact that other vehicles were traveling at a similar speed would also coincide with that and further add to your belief that you were within limits. So mulkers does have a chance here.

But

We now come to your previous history which im tipping is not the best and will be a great weight against mulkers. You also didnt mention if you had a clock in your car so you were unable to show or prove the time discrepancy.

My opinion? ...suck it up

[GTRgeoff]

Well I'm a lot disgusted with some people I thought were a lot smarter and a lot more considerate.

This is simple revenue raising and there is plenty of reasonable doubt as to the correct time and circumstances. There is no specific law that you need to wear a watch or have a clock in the car. Doubt? You bet!!

Mulkers, feel free to contact me for further detail, but I can recommend you go to http://www.aussiespeedingfines.com/pages/1259.htm and purchase their book, follow the process and if necessary represent yourself. I doubt it will even get there.

Before I left the cretinous hole of Victoria I got a camera fine for 4km over in a 60 zone (my first in 15 years), with 5 other cars in the image, I was more than 61% across the photo (actually 75%) and I don't need to be a Radar and Laser expert (which I am) plus have detailed training in the Law to know that this was not right.

The infringement should not have been issued, I asked for review and it was rejected (2 counts of misconduct just there) so I have now sent the reviewing officer a legally binding contract to provide affidavit to confirm the equipment was calibrated to the relevant AS or reject the contract in 28 days. He failed to do this so a confirmation document is sent to confirm we now have a contract which he cannot escape as the representative of VicPol, so no further action can be taken and no Judge would overturn it, ever. It was all sent registered and receipted and notarised. Aussie Speeding fines has plenty of info and it is worth just buying the book

I guess people can't see the difference between Law and Justice. This wasn't high range speeding given the circumstances and his previous error was one most of you would make too so he gets nailed on his license as a P plater.

Mulkers, go the defence, you are entitled to it. In fact the rest should buy the book and learn a bit of eye opening detail as well on the actual law, even you Sarah

[Ruffels]

Well I'm a lot disgusted with some people I thought were a lot smarter and a lot more considerate.

This is simple revenue raising and there is plenty of reasonable doubt as to the correct time and circumstances. There is no specific law that you need to wear a watch or have a clock in the car. Doubt? You bet!!

Mulkers, feel free to contact me for further detail, but I can recommend you go to http://www.aussiespeedingfines.com/pages/1259.htm and purchase their book, follow the process and if necessary represent yourself. I doubt it will even get there.

Before I left the cretinous hole of Victoria I got a camera fine for 4km over in a 60 zone (my first in 15 years), with 5 other cars in the image, I was more than 61% across the photo (actually 75%) and I don't need to be a Radar and Laser expert (which I am) plus have detailed training in the Law to know that this was not right.

The infringement should not have been issued, I asked for review and it was rejected (2 counts of misconduct just there) so I have now sent the reviewing officer a legally binding contract to provide affidavit to confirm the equipment was calibrated to the relevant AS or reject the contract in 28 days. He failed to do this so a confirmation document is sent to confirm we now have a contract which he cannot escape as the representative of VicPol, so no further action can be taken and no Judge would overturn it, ever. It was all sent registered and receipted and notarised. Aussie Speeding fines has plenty of info and it is worth just buying the book

I guess people can't see the difference between Law and Justice. This wasn't high range speeding given the circumstances and his previous error was one most of you would make too so he gets nailed on his license as a P plater.

Mulkers, go the defence, you are entitled to it. In fact the rest should buy the book and learn a bit of eye opening detail as well on the actual law, even you Sarah

THANK YOU! that was extreamly well said, to all those who told this poor bloke to suck it up! i hope you loose your lisence for something as petty as this! and find out hard hard it is for you

its easy to sit at your computer and tell someone else to suck it up, when your not the one who has to find a new job, and then walk to it!

[saff_cossie]

Good words Geoff and I know I have spoken with several times on this subject before at meetings.

I appealed my 107kph in a 100kph on the Westgate Fwy (caught by the camera on the reverse side of the Altona bridge) on my own with a simple letter to the issuing officer and was given a firm letter back but waived the 1 point and fine. This is revenue raising at its finest.

UK was 10% plus 3 and most traffic travels far above that on the motorways but am here now so no point aspiring to that limit for me.

Very unlucky mate getting that and you can bet the next school day, 50 mums would have sped through it at least and be home that night with no infringement. Definately appeal it and credit to Geoff for the above post. I have a fairly standard letter that I sent but do know that you need your licence for a minimum of 5 years to appeal it based solely on the letter as it didnt work for another SAUer.

Am all for adhering to speed limits and ordinarilly more so for residential/school zones but this does suck.

[justin911]

whatd you write in your letter alan ?

[saff_cossie]

Along the lines of being disappointed at receiving the infringement and consider myself a safe driver with impeccible driving record (no points, fines, claims or convictions in nearly 10 years of driving).

I didnt write anything that could be perceived as condoning the speed. Nor anything about driving through numerous camera zones all the way to Geelong daily incase that was misinterpreted too. Essentially a remorseful letter to the issuing officer.

[Mulkers]

go the whole hog and rep yaself!

mind you to someone who faces losing their licence and job, a meer 4 figures would probably seem a much better option.

I get that a week. money is not too much of a problem, unless i lose my job, and then it will be a really really big one.

I figure, if i fight it, it will cost me $????

If i 'suck it up', fine ($220), Lost income (Over $10,000 up to, roughly $30,000 depending on how long it takes me to get another job), plus have to find money for bills etc.

I think it is worth a shot. Thanks for all with the constructive help.

Will be looking at that aussie speeding fines book very seriously.

Edited September 11, 2007 by Mulkers

[**JaR**]

hey Alan, you have to have your full license for 3 years with a clean history to be successful with the warning letter thing...not 5 years

[inark]

I get that a week. money is not too much of a problem, unless i lose my job, and then it will be a really really big one.

I figure, if i fight it, it will cost me $????

If i 'suck it up', fine ($220), Lost income (Over $10,000), plus have to find money for bills etc.

I think it is worth a shot. Thanks for all with the constructive help.

Will be looking at that aussie speeding fines book very seriously.

Good on ya Mulkers and good luck with it!

Hope you get off it as it is obviously BS.

[Meek34]

School zones are there for a reason. I drive through the one in Croydon on Mt Dandy Road (in front of the police station) twice a day and I always adhere to the limit. I have had many people abuse me, driving up my ass flashing their lights, even school buses ignoring the speed limit, it makes me angry. I have 2 little kids and I guess I can see the purpose of these zones. Just my opinion.

[GTRgeoff]

I agree in school zones but the problem is to rigidly stay at 40kmh in a modern car you look at the speedo quite a lot. I spent a lot of time on the human factors engineering side as well and the time taken to slow from 60-40 and the average amount of time spent looking at the speedo as you slow down means you could have driven through at 70kmh and have similar reaction times to stop in that first region of the zone. Looking hard at a speedo to do 40 means you could be doing 58 and still see the need to stop.

I'm for taking it slow, but never look at the speedo after reaching the zone as my eyes need to be looking forward for potential danger like kids running out and idiot mothers pulling out without looking. Plenty of kids are alive because I was looking for them, like a bouncing ball a couple of times followed by a kid or seeing a head bobbing through a windscreen, then a kid just appears from between cars.

I'm also disturbed by people that feel the need to rush through a school zone but I ignore them.

[2rismo]

I think that common sense (safety) and common sense (looking after your back pocket) says that it's not such a bad idea to do 40km/h in school zones 5 minutes either side of the start and finish times. Some of you crying "revenue raising" don't have kids I reckon.

[inark]

I think that common sense (safety) and common sense (looking after your back pocket) says that it's not such a bad idea to do 40km/h in school zones 5 minutes either side of the start and finish times. Some of you crying "revenue raising" don't have kids I reckon.

well thats where your wrong... I have a kid, all be it on the way, and 3 neices... but ur all missing the point. We are NOT against it, however the way it is setup and enforced is rediculous in this case.

As geoff said... whats more dangerous? looking at your speedo 10 times a minute or keeping an eye out for children?

If they want to enforce these laws down to the minute or second, so there is no discrepencies and no excuses, ALL signs should have flashing lights to say that zone is now 40kmh. Its not hard, makes more sense and no driver can say "oh i didnt know" or "oh my watch says it was not".

And those complaining that say they do have kids, do you drop them off at 8am?