Is This Bs? Or What? School Zone

[adznight]

Geoff - I agree to a certain point but I think fat too many people are using the old "the speed cameras are faulty" routine these days. I don't disagree some are but in most cases I'm sure fines are issued are legitimate, I know all mine have been.

Ruffels - Yeah I've was 18 once, fancy that! I had my P's and I lost my license for what I might call "petty offenses" but shit hey, at the end of the day I had to suck it up as I'm sure the majority of people do.

I'm not out to be a bastard and rub it into Mulkers, I feel for him as I've been in the same spot. I agree that 5 mins is pretty tight and they should have perhaps issues a warning, even better, put in those bloody flashing LED signs as said before.

What does piss me off how drivers will break the law then try to pass the buck instead of being a man and taking the blame. In the majority of threads here that's always the case "how can I get out of this fine".

What do all don't seem to get is if you are CAREFUL and keep some wit about you, be cautious etc I'm sure that these type of fines can be avoided. I'm no angel, I've had fines in the past 12 months and all could have been avoided if I was a bit more cautious.

Don't try and make out like driving on todays roads it like going to war. It's not that difficult, if you can't stick the the rules or look at a speedo while moving perhaps you should consider handing your license in?

[Mulkers]

Plenty of kids are alive because I was looking for them, like a bouncing ball a couple of times followed by a kid or seeing a head bobbing through a windscreen, then a kid just appears from between cars.

I know exaclty what you mean, i get paranoid when i see kids on the side of the road, and i am always looking out for them (there was none last friday morning).

It is just like the TAC ads, expecting one of them to chase a bouncing ball. freaks me out.

[mr. kirisaki]

I know exaclty what you mean, i get paranoid when i see kids on the side of the road, and i am always looking out for them (there was none last friday morning).

It is just like the TAC ads, expecting one of them to chase a bouncing ball. freaks me out.

Man that's exactly what happend a couple of days ago. I saw this little fella running out of his house with a skateboard from 10m away... and without looking jumped onto the road right in front of me. Lucky I saw him from far and started braking. I revved and scared the crap out of him though lol.

[gdogzgtr]

I have to agree Adzmax above it's about time people take responsability for their driving. I am personally sick of people complaining when they are issued with a fine. Traffic offences are out of control and getting worse due to this "it's only traffic offence attitude"

I have caught in last week alone 2 suspended drivers, one 30KM/H over speed limit as well. Seen street race with 3 VL Turbo's 50+Km/h over speed llimit, 3 drink driver's and numerous other offences and all offenders had same attitute of it's only traffic. This while being in a marked vehicle so shows how people have no awareness and I am not a traffic officer so these just happen in front of us driving around.

School zones are huge issues and we are tasked to go and fine NO WARNINGS all people committing offences in them.

IMO warnings don't work at all. Have given some and seen person doing same thing matter of days later.

I also know what it's like to lose licence as I did as P plater for 131 in 110 zone only fine I have ever had in 10 years of driving and I learnt a big lesson.

I haven't posted on here for a while but am disappointed with the complaining/negative attitude towards pollice of the newer members on here compared to the older members like Adzmax, R31Nismoid etc

[GTRgeoff]

Graeme, I for one appreciate what you guys do, especially after 21 years in the Army. Unfortunately there are instances where the application of Justice is taken too far. This is because of just a few who don't represent the majority of you.

But seriously mate, do you believe there is any relevance between a guy getting done in a school zone where the circumstances are fairly ambiguous at below the normal posted limit, and the examples of absolute cretins you just supplied? Let's be realistic. Another solution would have been to be there, highly visible and seen using the device and allow a reasonable time before starting to actually book serious offenders would send a message that the safety of school kids is taken seriously, and not just revenue raising, but hey, so would flashing signs. 5 minutes is reasonable doubt. The court would throw it out unless they wanted to suggest a law should be established that we all have GPS synchronised clocks in our cars as standard. Never going to happen.

Let's look at that revenue raising aspect as well. I work with a road safety advocacy group in the aim to create road safety through real education and attitudes. Our research as accessed has shown that only 2% of serious and fatal accidents occur over the posted limit (note, not "speed related" or "excessive speed for the conditions", the key element is over the posted limit). Take the road fatalities numbers and do the math. So the 500+ Million dollars that Vic Gov alone are taking out of the economy through fines in the hope of saving these few is either pretty over the top, or the extra injection of revenue is so addictive that they can't stop. I'd discuss the impact on the macro-economic decay and micro-economics as well but that is beyond this discussion.

What I do find disturbing is the pettiness of all these marginal fines has created an attitude where a lot of drivers now can't see the difference between 10k over and less, and the higher ranges. So we see people treated poorly for what would have been, a couple of minutes earlier as totally acceptable but is now the second coming of the son of the Devil. The attitudes of people themselves guilty of speeding is to consider all speeders as criminals, but without taking a long hard look at themselves.

Let's take the holier than thou attitude of Ash for one, who was guilty of a high range offence. I seem to recall he employed a representative to contest and reduce his moment of insanity. Care to share the details mate or would that erode you position up there on your pedestal? Anyone else that has been bitter and accusing? I'm never going to support a high range speeder when it was outright stupidity, but this case has ambiguities.

Some perspective again. Mulkers is on P's so the previous crime of a marginal nature for obscured number plates plus the range that this event occurred at sees him losing his license. I'd suggest again the court would see the justice in not adding another to the dole queue.

Should I now concentrate on the accuracy of the equipment and the operators? I'm a certified marksman and sniper as well as a master weapons coach. I was also one of the senior weapons engineers for a program that included one of the worlds most advanced guided missiles. I know how unsteady the human hand is and the inherent deficiencies of the equipment. If someone tries to use a lidar that has a divergent beam that is 2m wide at 200m at that range you will introduce all sorts of errors and the device is not intelligent enough to know the difference (just as an example). So how large are normal groups at say 50m for someone using a handheld device like a lidar or even a pistol (same aiming and accuracy elements apply except the lidar is continuous over a period of time so the deviation are larger)? Pretty large folks. All over the place so your reading could include some of your car, a bit of road, a sign, a tree, another car behind.... We only get this far because justice is not occurring fairly and the policy is NOT working!!! Death rates, for all the safety advances and reduced limits are static and even increasing.

Enough evidence from OS shows that other approaches, while not as financially lucrative are actually working. But don't blame the Police. They just do their job.

I've dribbled long enough. We know this for what it is, and none of us is guilty of being absolutely perfect behind the wheel even though our imperfect politicians think we should to justify their fund raising so I'll leave it here.

The only way to get road safety on the right track is to send the message to our elected governments, fight the petty and ambiguous infringements, every one and have them adopt other avenues, but if you are an idiot high range speeder that can't get the message, get off the roads.

[2rismo]

well thats where your wrong... I have a kid, all be it on the way, and 3 neices... but ur all missing the point. We are NOT against it, however the way it is setup and enforced is rediculous in this case.

As geoff said... whats more dangerous? looking at your speedo 10 times a minute or keeping an eye out for children?

If they want to enforce these laws down to the minute or second, so there is no discrepencies and no excuses, ALL signs should have flashing lights to say that zone is now 40kmh. Its not hard, makes more sense and no driver can say "oh i didnt know" or "oh my watch says it was not".

And those complaining that say they do have kids, do you drop them off at 8am?

If you have to look at your speedo constantly to maintain a steady speed you shouldn't have a license. Simple.

[JVP]

Well said Geoff. Very informative.

[**JaR**]

Let's take the holier than thou attitude of Ash for one, who was guilty of a high range offence. I seem to recall he employed a representative to contest and reduce his moment of insanity. Care to share the details mate or would that erode you position up there on your pedestal?

:laughing-smiley-014:

[inark]

Your awesome Geoff... you can have my first born child to do with what you please.

[Roy]

A lot can happen in 5 minutes. Hell, hit a silly but unfortunate kid and within 5 minutes im betting the ambulance will be there and you will be discussing matters with the police.

If you know it was 7.50 and you were booked, then ok maybe contest it. If you know it was after 8am then just wear it. If your tale of woe re-obscured plates etc is on the level i dont think you will have any trouble appealing and getting a licence for work purposes.

Its silly how a speed can be deemed safe at 7:59 but not at 8:00am. But its what we have and i cant think of a better system....and after years of it you cant plead ignorance. We are meant to be reading street signs.

So, you are not a menace to society, you are not a criminal...but you did happen to break a single law. And in light of it being a school zone i dont think you have a leg to stand on. 5minutes is a huge anount of time behind the wheel of a car.

LOL..now if only they introduced 15km/h zones around pubs from 2am to 6am my chances of being wiped out would be greatly reduced when walkign home

Othersmay not agree...but. I walk to/from work down Nicholson every day and you would be amazed by the amount of ppl speedign through school zones. Hell, there are cars that run the level crossing lights right out front of a girls school at between 50-60km/h because they are not payign attention ....so something needs to be done

[Mulkers]

If your tale of woe re-obscured plates etc is on the level i dont think you will have any trouble appealing and getting a licence for work purposes.

Can't be done, it used to be an option, but was removed (over ten years ago i think,) to help destroy the economy.

[GTRgeoff]

Funnily enough, a speeding case is conducted in a criminal court, as a "quasi" criminal offence. Although for it to be a criminal offense there has to be a victim. So who is the victim???

And if a Police prosecutor is not a Lawyer how is it they are allowed to represent another party in court????

Your Honour!!! I object!!!!

Starting to get the message???

[Roy]

Its been years since i had to know any of this hell 1994. But didnt a criminal act require both mens rea and actus rea. So the action and the intent? Thats not the case with traffic offences ... so unless both elements are present ????? But yeh, i supposed it is heard in a criminal court so... I shoudl also clarify that just because i accept the reality of the situation doesnt mean i agree with the whole road regulations/rules/laws

[R31Nismoid]

Let's take the holier than thou attitude of Ash for one, who was guilty of a high range offence. I seem to recall he employed a representative to contest and reduce his moment of insanity. Care to share the details mate or would that erode you position up there on your pedestal? Anyone else that has been bitter and accusing? I'm never going to support a high range speeder when it was outright stupidity, but this case has ambiguities.

Lets start with a few facts…

1. I was accused of 140km/h+ in 80 zone

2. No radar was used, no witnesses other than the officer's word around a blind corner.

3. Took that to court, and won.

4. Speed was reduced to 'a speed over the speed limit', as there was not enough evidence. Judge believed I was over, and I admitted to doing 90 as that’s how fast I was going.

Don’t see how that is a "high range offence", but im sure it’s a high range offence because you said so ye?

Muppet.

Guess 10km/h over in a 80 zone is worse than 18km/h over in a 40 zone…

Now, im not a certified/trained Mathmetician here so don’t get too angry if my maths is wrong… but 18 over in a 40 zone is MORE than 90 in a 80 zone isnt it?

Wonder if you’re a certified Mathmetician aswell? You might be able to check the numbers for us all and bring some "perspective" to the conversation here.

Taking the liberty and assuming im right… You'd better get really stuck into that big bad Mulkers, 18km/h… gebus... that must be a "super dooper high range offence" in your eyes yes?

Or is it suddenly not as bad compared to me as you tried to allude to? Possibly because you were having a crack without even knowing the basic details?

Your supporting him and calling the people who go against him "cretins"… So how about you get out your posts out & start calling them something aswell? The colour black would be a good start.

Muppet.

Others may not agree...but. I walk to/from work down Nicholson every day and you would be amazed by the amount of ppl speedign through school zones. Hell, there are cars that run the level crossing lights right out front of a girls school at between 50-60km/h because they are not payign attention ....so something needs to be done

I see the same thing you talk about on Dandy Rd on the way home from work each day and have for 2 years. I regularly see the Police there at 3:05-3:10pm, and good on em aswell. But then, their wathces probably arent calibrated correctly, and the radars they are using arent being held correctly… seems the going things these days.

All good and well to say its harsh until your child is polaxed @ 3:05pm, or 8:05am heading to a early music lesson.

You'd suddenly find you would care one hell of a lot. Hell I don’t even have kids and I can see the reasons.

[ztuned]

wrong

[inark]

so he wasnt using a speed camera... he just guessed which is something theyre apparently trained to do... and the officer in this case was using his own watch... not one synchronised with every other watch in Australia...

i can see how you think this is so much more clear cut.

fair enough... lol

speaking of muppets

[GTRgeoff]

1. I was accused of 140km/h+ in 80 zone

2. No radar was used, no witnesses other than the officer's word around a blind corner.

3. Took that to court, and won.

4. Speed was reduced to 'a speed over the speed limit', as there was not enough evidence. Judge believed I was over, and I admitted to doing 90 as that’s how fast I was going.

1. Looks a hell of a lot more than Mulkers is accused of.

2. Radar or not, they are trained, but they can also get it wrong.

3. So Mulkers is not entitled to do the same? How DARE YOU tell him he has to suck it up!! We are all entitled to defend our innocence in court. Somehow, on the face of it I'm more likely to consider Mulkers case the lesser of the evils here.

4. So you didn't win but still took a fine and loss of points. You did at least get to save your license. Again, is Mulkers not entitled to do the same?

I'll admit I'm a hell of a lot more intelligent than you Ash, so I won't continue to have a battle of wits.

You didn't have the right to tell this guy to suck it up. Your history is evidence enough of that.

As for me calling cretins the other posters telling him to suck it up as well, did I call them cretins or did I refer to Victoria as a cretinous hole, and Graemes examples as cretins?

Pushing pretty close to offensive there son, and a personal attack. Your position as a mod does not give you the right to do either.

[JVP]

[**JaR**]

just gets better and better

[GTR_STEALTH]

The personal shots on here is getting a bit much ppl. Everyone is entitled to an opinion here whether it be to go fight the charge or to suck it up, suck it in, suck shit, eat balls, eat eggs, eat kebabs.....mmmmmm kebab *drools*

Lets keep it light hearted or just close the damn thread already. Mulkers can get back to us with the results at a later stage.