Replace The Rb20 Or Cut My Losses?

[Roy]

to be quiet honest if i end up selling this car, i might go for a 32 4 door shell n put in a rb25 again, the amount of tourque u get compared to the 20 is heaps good,

Out of interest can you post a dyno graph?

No doubt you get more low to mid range with the RB25. But i have noticed that an RB20 will often make the same power from about 4,000-4,200rpm onwards, about 110km/h. So sure you have more low end grunt which is nice for tootling around on the street. BUT, how often do you actually drive through the 2,500-4,000rpm range when you are up and trying to go quickly?

So, based on that alone i have stuck with the RB20. Its as quick as the RB25 etc R32 GTSts getting around when you are up it and having a go....and on the street its still nice and tractable...its just not punchy. I dont care if a bloke comes out of a 20km/h roundabout and pulls away from me. Im going for milk not a lap time. LOL its at the track where you can use the power that it matters to me

So no one solution suits everybody, and that includes their budgets

[DjeMz]

dyno graph is in my for sale add

yes a bit of lag, thats due to 2 things

1. stock dump/front/cat

2. no boost controler, straight off actuator.

solution: gk teck dump + front + profec b 2

=)

soon power fc aswell

[Roy]

And on another dyno with an old tune.

I understand your dump pipe etc is causign boost to drop off pretty quick etc but there are problems with my setup as well (trying to get an 8psi spring to run 18psi etc)

[Roy]

Not saying one is better then the other. Im just posting up to highlight that the gap isnt as huge as ppl make out, and dont forget the TD06 is a bigger, plain bearing turbo and the RB25 above is running more compression with a smaller ball bearign turbo.

RB20s can give results that may satisfy what you want to do with your R32 without resorting to an engine conversion.

[Starionturbo]

I had a R32 with a 25 Conversion about 5 years ago - while it was a great conversion , looking back on it I wudve rather worked a RB20!!!

I have owned my Cefiro now with the RB20DET in it for around 17 months and I cant stress how happy I am with this car. It is probably the least powerful import I have ever owned (despite making close to 200 rwkw) and it has given me trouble free motoring since I owned it - and those who know me know I dont drive my cars like a Pansy.

The RB20 is a very under rated engine. I will admit that in the past I have jumped on the bandwagon and said they have no low down torque and all the usual garbage you hear from people about these motors.

Its all a load of crap. My 20 has a small GT2510 turbo on it and its on full boost (1.1 bar) at around 3000 rpm with a stupidly urgent push all the way to 8400 rpm. It feels absolutely great and is thoroughly enjoyable to drive. My old JZX100 chaser with the torque monster VVTi 1JZ didnt feel as urgent down low!!!

Your best bet is to put a cheap RB20 replacement motor and enjoy the car without going thru all the headaches associated with engine conversions.

And why would you wanna make your Skyline sound like a Truck. Say NO to SR20 conversions

Edited February 12, 2008 by Starionturbo

[cln]

wow i just realised a) this thread is hell old and b) i already posted a while back..

Dont get me wrong i love my 25, but i could have saved alot of money and just bolted a 2530 onto the 20 and ripped it up without a care in the world

[dmac_25]

Go the 20 or build up a 30 with a 25de head on her and get some good numbers out of it

[DjeMz]

i agree with alot of things said here, if ur on a budget stick with rb23 + hks 2530

but rb25s can handle 300 at the wheel and box safely from what every1 on here is saying.

how much can rb20s hold?

im thinking about getting some aggressive cams at the same time as the power fc (if i can friggen find one for under 13000 =)

i guess it all depends on ur driving style and needs, if u want ~200 at the wheel and use it alot of drift, just keep bouncing off that limiter and keep kicking the clutch and u will never need down low torque lol... plus rb20s go for like $700? while rb25s go for much much more.

like i said, i was looking to sell my car n get a 4door, but i changed my mind n sticking to the 25 =)

[DjeMz]

oh and btw roy which one is ur dyno sheet? both are very impressive i must say

[Roy]

oh and btw roy which one is ur dyno sheet? both are very impressive i must say

The two sheets under yours are mine. Interloper and I put out cars on Dr Drifts dyno (the mainline chart) where mine is the blue line showing it to be a llittle more responsive and make more power then the GT-RS. Though i was running more boost so kind of expected. A few months after that dyno run i was chasing more power so tried some cams, then removed them and just spent a bit more time on the tuning and perhaps cam gear timing. The result is the Dyno Dynamics graoh showing 260rwkws. (The other line on that graph was with teh 260/8.8mm cams )

[Bunta]

Both have thier merits!

I think a light tune rb20 would have to be better than a stock rb25 (cause thats the decision that faces many)

Regarding response i have a mate who makes 270rwkw on his rb20 R32 using a Garret 3071R and i had a rb25 in mine making 270rwkw using a 3076R and at any rpm my car was able to pull away not by tonnes but it was noticeable! Oh pus i could turn the boost up later and make 300rwkw but he couldnt and would start crying about cheating! So despite the fact i had a bigger turbo my response was still better.

[Starionturbo]

Emz uve never experienced RB20 powaah!! Ive never seen ur RB25 even turn the wheels in 2nd gear!!

Tim (silver R32 that drifts) has a TD06 L2 setup on his 32 with PowerFC - tuned by Racepace it pushes 270 rwkw!! Thats outta a stock RB20DET and he thrashes the ring outta it on limiter.

Power figures mean nothing - its about how the car is tuned and set up and how effectively it gets it power to the ground.

Another guy I know Imported a R32 GTS-T very recently that was built by STILLWAY in Japan.

All I can say is - what a freaking Monster!!!!

Stillway built RB20 stroker - 2.4 Liter, unknown cams (very very lumpy), stillway ECU and a Trust T78!!

Cross mission 25 box and Quad Plate clutch. Just listening to it, id be hard pressed to find another RB motor that sounded better.

Ceffy is due for some cams and Trust turbine love sometime this year!!

Edited February 13, 2008 by Starionturbo

[Roy]

Both have thier merits!

I think a light tune rb20 would have to be better than a stock rb25 (cause thats the decision that faces many)

Regarding response i have a mate who makes 270rwkw on his rb20 R32 using a Garret 3071R and i had a rb25 in mine making 270rwkw using a 3076R and at any rpm my car was able to pull away not by tonnes but it was noticeable! Oh pus i could turn the boost up later and make 300rwkw but he couldnt and would start crying about cheating! So despite the fact i had a bigger turbo my response was still better.

Interesting as there are a few RB25s at the track making between 280-320rwkws and coming onto the straights they sure as hell dont pull away from me. If anything i pull a bit on them. I think the only car i know of woudl by Adz who has a neat RB25 in his R32. Looking at vods of his car against mine he does seem to pull a car length or two on the long front straight at Sandown. I know the R33s and R34s i am referring to dont seem to pull any gap on me. Actually just remembered Lee Wilson oin the AVO R33 which runs a GT35 and about 310rwkws...he pulled about 2 car lengths on me down an entire straight at Sandown.

But i imagine on the street it would be far more pronounced as the rpm woudl often be less then 3,000rpm and you would die in an RB20. But at the track where you are always above 4,000rpm, if not 4,5000rpm there is more variation in the suspension cars are running then the power, torque the engien is making.

Still, the day will come where my RB20 will die...finances at the time will be the only thing to dictate me decision. $600 and another motor for a few more years of fun...or 330rwkws and 15k and try to chase down some of the quicker cars?!?!?!

[stolen_s15]

2.5k and a mechanic and your problems will go away. Wrecker motor with 3 month warranty, new belts, pumps etc and all labour performed by someone else. I would expect that you wouldnt be up for much more then $2500, providing you can get a motor for less then $800

if you can do it with friends then even better, just be sure that its done properly

As said above IMO this is the best option.

Otherwise do a budget RB30 build for another 1k or so.